Ford Field Rink Installation

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Well, not unless he wants to buy the Pistons.



I worked on an urban design project for exactly this issue back in Grad School. The best solution we came up with was to push the arena all the way up against Grand River - you'd have to close Columbia Street, but you'd then be able to have a big enough footprint for the arena there, and Illitch can develop all the land he owns between Cass and Woodward.

Which building are you in on Adams? Some cool renovations there.



An arena alone won't be a big enough link up and down Woodward. For one, Woodward has enough anchors for activity between downtown, the Max Fisher Music Center, Wayne State, DIA, and New Center. That's all within the scope of the light rail line plan, which will do a far better job to link those destinations than just an arena.

Instead, arenas are nodes for people to walk to and from - and the Woodward corridor is too far to walk alone (hence the need for light rail) - but downtown is not. Pushing the arena up against Grand River allows for a walkable connection either to the MGM or to the Fox Theater area, and in turn Greektown, etc.

At least, that's my thought.

Good stuff here...thanks for your input.

My point about linking downtown and midtown was not so much about walkability, but helping provide a functional and practical street wall along Woodward Ave. If the city wants to develop the central Cass Corridor area and Brush Park, they cannot continue to ignore the large plots of land along that areas primary thoroughfare.

oh, and I live in The Kales Bldg.

/hijack

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

In Detroit you can never judge an establishment on its surroundings, or even the building that it is in. Our greatest treasures are hidden in places that you would not dream of entering. "Don't judge a book by its cover" is the way to really get to know Detroit.

And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?

Truth is there is not a whole lot of places here that have the pristine, hip exterior of other cities. Detroit is 309 years old, most of our core was build in the 20's-40's. Some people expect something else when they come here. I am simply pointing out that people should not be turned away based on the streetscapes they may see.

I'm telling people exactly what they are going to see. I'm not going to call it something it's not. Just trying to be a good host...but thanks for your input.

 

[blockski]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

So you're talking about Grand River, 2nd Ave, Fisher Fwy, Cass Ave and Elizabeth St?

Yep, pretty much.

And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?

It's true - and it applies to a lot of other places, too. The best spots aren't the obvious ones, they're the hole in the wall type places. Finding those spots in Detroit is really the same thing, just in a different setting.

Good stuff here...thanks for your input.

My point about linking downtown and midtown was not so much about walkability, but helping provide a functional and practical street wall along Woodward Ave. If the city wants to develop the central Cass Corridor area and Brush Park, they cannot continue to ignore the large plots of land along that areas primary thoroughfare.

oh, and I live in The Kales Bldg.

/hijack

I figured you might live in the Kales. Nice renovation there.

As for walkability, it's vitally important to rebuild the streetwall, but I'm not sure an arena alone can help that particular stretch of Grand River. What I worry about is putting it across the freeway from the rest of downtown, as that's a major physical and psychological barrier. Keeping the arena south of the freeway gives you a chance to reach a critical mass of pedestrian and street activity.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

It's true - and it applies to a lot of other places, too. The best spots aren't the obvious ones, they're the hole in the wall type places. Finding those spots in Detroit is really the same thing, just in a different setting.

There is a huge difference between wandering around looking for them and doing some research before you get there and taking the advice of someone from there/who has been there. I can't see myself randomly looking around in Detroit for anything...

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

I figured you might live in the Kales. Nice renovation there.

As for walkability, it's vitally important to rebuild the streetwall, but I'm not sure an arena alone can help that particular stretch of Grand River. What I worry about is putting it across the freeway from the rest of downtown, as that's a major physical and psychological barrier. Keeping the arena south of the freeway gives you a chance to reach a critical mass of pedestrian and street activity.

I agree with you on that...then we come to my favorite subject: freeway capping!! I know there is no $ for this and it's just not practical given all the land available downtown right now...I just imagine who downtown could develop outward if there was cohesiveness between the neighborhoods. The freeways destroyed Detroit's neighborhoods and isolated the downtown core.

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

There is a huge difference between wandering around looking for them and doing some research before you get there and taking the advice of someone from there/who has been there. I can't see myself randomly looking around in Detroit for anything...

So you don't randomly explore any city you go to, or is it a Detroit thing? I love exploring new cities and trying out places without knowing what I'm getting into. Maybe it's just me, but I thought that was all part of the fun of visiting somewhere new.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Truth is there is not a whole lot of places here that have the pristine, hip exterior of other cities. Detroit is 309 years old, most of our core was build in the 20's-40's. Some people expect something else when they come here. I am simply pointing out that people should not be turned away based on the streetscapes they may see.

I'm telling people exactly what they are going to see. I'm not going to call it something it's not. Just trying to be a good host...but thanks for your input.

The place I was referring to looked great, I wouldn't have a problem going in there. I have no idea if the food is good or not. I just had the impression from seeing it on the map, being away from other buildings, and having the name Bookie's that it might be a dive.

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

The place I was referring to looked great, I wouldn't have a problem going in there. I have no idea if the food is good or not. I just had the impression from seeing it on the map, being away from other buildings, and having the name Bookie's that it might be a dive.

Bookies is an awesome place. It was originally out on 6 Mile Rd., then it opened in the Book Tower downtown. That building was recently closed, and they built this new location. It really is a great place. Here is their website...

http://www.bookiesbar.com/

At their last location you could bring your own meat and they would cook you a steak or burger on their outdoor grill. Now they have a full kitchen and the menu is loaded with excellent food.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

So you don't randomly explore any city you go to, or is it a Detroit thing? I love exploring new cities and trying out places without knowing what I'm getting into. Maybe it's just me, but I thought that was all part of the fun of visiting somewhere new.

Pardon me for not explaining, but you made it sound like I should walk around what looks like a bad part of detroit and walk into what looks like a crappy scary restaurant because I might be surprised at how good the food is? That is completely different than walking around Washington DC on my own with tons of people around and checking out local joints that aren't chains. I still did a ton of homework before we went to DC to find out some of the places that were must see...and we still ended up checking out new stuff not planned.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Bookies is an awesome place. It was originally out on 6 Mile Rd., then it opened in the Book Tower downtown. That building was recently closed, and they built this new location. It really is a great place. Here is their website...

http://www.bookiesbar.com/

At their last location you could bring your own meat and they would cook you a steak or burger on their outdoor grill. Now they have a full kitchen and the menu is loaded with excellent food.

Hm, interesting. That seems like an odd place to move the business to, but maybe they are well known enough in the city that it isn't a problem to move a couple blocks away from what would be considered a more "happening" location. They're probably also saving a bunch of money over being across the street from, say, Comerica. Actually I wish I had known about it when I was there for GLI, we were looking for somewhere to go when Hockeytown was closed, we ended up going to some Irish bar that wasn't too bad, we were just looking for alcohol, afterall.

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Hm, interesting. That seems like an odd place to move the business to, but maybe they are well known enough in the city that it isn't a problem to move a couple blocks away from what would be considered a more "happening" location. They're probably also saving a bunch of money over being across the street from, say, Comerica. Actually I wish I had known about it when I was there for GLI, we were looking for somewhere to go when Hockeytown was closed, we ended up going to some Irish bar that wasn't too bad, we were just looking for alcohol, afterall.

There were a few more buildings around there until Mike Illitch (who truly is a slumlord) demolished a couple of old buildings in the area that were promising entertainment spots. Now they are just parking lots. Illitch owns 13 parking lots within 3 blocks of Bookies...

 

[alfablue]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Pardon me for not explaining, but you made it sound like I should walk around what looks like a bad part of detroit and walk into what looks like a crappy scary restaurant because I might be surprised at how good the food is? That is completely different than walking around Washington DC on my own with tons of people around and checking out local joints that aren't chains. I still did a ton of homework before we went to DC to find out some of the places that were must see...and we still ended up checking out new stuff not planned.

Are you coming to Detroit or not? I got the impression that you are not.

What you did in DC is no different than what is being suggested for Detroit- the only thing is your preception- that DC is safe (and it isn't) and Detroit is very dangerous (most of it's not). Check the Whitney Restaurant- very old house on Woodward Ave, in the middle of the corridor between the downtown area and Wayne State- pretty abandoned area- one of the top restaurants in Detroit. Go farther north, past the New Center area, if you blink you'll miss La Dolce Vita, since people like you were just paranoid of the surroundings- and you miss another of the top Detroit Restaurants.

You can do the same in the downtown square mile, but since you are so afraid of Detroit, you'd probably stay in your hotel and complain how boring Detroit is. Awesome- you visit, don't bother looking around, and complain that your preceptions were correct.

Right now, if you are not coming to Detroit for the Frozen Four, why do you see it as your mission to tell people how bad a city is when 1) you are not coming, and 2) you haven't been here in some time, if ever? What's your point?

As posted before, the games are happening tomorrow, however much you personally hate Detroit, and however much you personally hate the idea of hockey in a football stadium.

bigblue- I know a lot less about Detroit that Statedude does, and it's nice to see that you are open to at least checking some things out. Being a resident of downtown, I'm sure he knows of all the spots- hot, cold, jazzy, rock, beer, wine, etc etc etc. Just gotta know the right people, I suppose.

But some of the reasons people choose odd locations is cost. There are some MAJOR bargains to be found. You can experiment with some crazy ideas when rent or monthly payments are low.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

There were a few more buildings around there until Mike Illitch (who truly is a slumlord) demolished a couple of old buildings in the area that were promising entertainment spots. Now they are just parking lots. Illitch owns 13 parking lots within 3 blocks of Bookies...

Which is why there is speculation that he wants to put a new arena in that area, correct?

Are you coming to Detroit or not? I got the impression that you are not.

What you did in DC is no different than what is being suggested for Detroit- the only thing is your preception- that DC is safe (and it isn't) and Detroit is very dangerous (most of it's not). Check the Whitney Restaurant- very old house on Woodward Ave, in the middle of the corridor between the downtown area and Wayne State- pretty abandoned area- one of the top restaurants in Detroit. Go farther north, past the New Center area, if you blink you'll miss La Dolce Vita, since people like you were just paranoid of the surroundings- and you miss another of the top Detroit Restaurants.

You can do the same in the downtown square mile, but since you are so afraid of Detroit, you'd probably stay in your hotel and complain how boring Detroit is. Awesome- you visit, don't bother looking around, and complain that your preceptions were correct.

Right now, if you are not coming to Detroit for the Frozen Four, why do you see it as your mission to tell people how bad a city is when 1) you are not coming, and 2) you haven't been here in some time, if ever? What's your point?

As posted before, the games are happening tomorrow, however much you personally hate Detroit, and however much you personally hate the idea of hockey in a football stadium.

bigblue- I know a lot less about Detroit that Statedude does, and it's nice to see that you are open to at least checking some things out. Being a resident of downtown, I'm sure he knows of all the spots- hot, cold, jazzy, rock, beer, wine, etc etc etc. Just gotta know the right people, I suppose.

But some of the reasons people choose odd locations is cost. There are some MAJOR bargains to be found. You can experiment with some crazy ideas when rent or monthly payments are low.

I think there is a big difference between doing a little research and finding out that one of the best restaurants in the city is in an unsavory neighborhood and going there anyway, because the restaurant is good, and just going to a random restaurant in a bad neighborhood. I'm guessing there are several examples of places in Detroit, and in other cities, that you really wouldn't want to just walk into by yourself. It is also different if you are with a group of people, than if you're by yourself or only in a group of 2.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Are you coming to Detroit or not? I got the impression that you are not.

What you did in DC is no different than what is being suggested for Detroit- the only thing is your preception- that DC is safe (and it isn't) and Detroit is very dangerous (most of it's not). Check the Whitney Restaurant- very old house on Woodward Ave, in the middle of the corridor between the downtown area and Wayne State- pretty abandoned area- one of the top restaurants in Detroit. Go farther north, past the New Center area, if you blink you'll miss La Dolce Vita, since people like you were just paranoid of the surroundings- and you miss another of the top Detroit Restaurants.

You can do the same in the downtown square mile, but since you are so afraid of Detroit, you'd probably stay in your hotel and complain how boring Detroit is. Awesome- you visit, don't bother looking around, and complain that your preceptions were correct.

Right now, if you are not coming to Detroit for the Frozen Four, why do you see it as your mission to tell people how bad a city is when 1) you are not coming, and 2) you haven't been here in some time, if ever? What's your point?

As posted before, the games are happening tomorrow, however much you personally hate Detroit, and however much you personally hate the idea of hockey in a football stadium.

bigblue- I know a lot less about Detroit that Statedude does, and it's nice to see that you are open to at least checking some things out. Being a resident of downtown, I'm sure he knows of all the spots- hot, cold, jazzy, rock, beer, wine, etc etc etc. Just gotta know the right people, I suppose.

But some of the reasons people choose odd locations is cost. There are some MAJOR bargains to be found. You can experiment with some crazy ideas when rent or monthly payments are low.

Thanks for the input and honestly, I am very open to checking out new places and taking suggestions from people. I am not attending this Frozen Four but I do plan on coming back for the GLI in the future again. I would love to check out the places that are suggested and honestly didn't have a horrible impression of Detroit the first times...other than when my friend and I took a wrong turn...As I have said before, I would be going to the Frozen Four in Detroit it if wasn't at a football stadium. Detroit does get a bad rap but its hard not to see the city as rundown and unsafe because you ride around on the people mover and every other building is abandoned.

 

[blockski]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

What you did in DC is no different than what is being suggested for Detroit- the only thing is your preception- that DC is safe (and it isn't) and Detroit is very dangerous (most of it's not).

Very disappointing to see you argue against city stereotypes while lobbing a whopper of one out there about DC.

 

[d.gerry]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

You can do the same in the downtown square mile, but since you are so afraid of Detroit, you'd probably stay in your hotel and complain how boring Detroit is. Awesome- you visit, don't bother looking around, and complain that your preceptions were correct..

I think your missing his point. What I believe he is saying is that without some research, and recommendations from locals, he would not wander around Detriot (or most large cities for that matter) in search of a hidden gem. If that is his point, I agree.

Just becuase a place looks like a dump on the exterior doesn't mean I wouldn't go in, but I would want some info and advice before I walk into an unknown place in an unfamiliar city.

We went to a place in DC last year (Granville Moore's) that looked like a dump and was in a pretty rough looking neighborhood, but it was great. However, we went on the recommendation of others who knew the area, we didn't just start trekking around looking for some hole in the wall place.

 

[STATEdude3]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Thanks for the input and honestly, I am very open to checking out new places and taking suggestions from people. I am not attending this Frozen Four but I do plan on coming back for the GLI in the future again. I would love to check out the places that are suggested and honestly didn't have a horrible impression of Detroit the first times...other than when my friend and I took a wrong turn...As I have said before, I would be going to the Frozen Four in Detroit it if wasn't at a football stadium. Detroit does get a bad rap but its hard not to see the city as rundown and unsafe because you ride around on the people mover and every other building is abandoned.

I live on the 15th floor of a downtown building and I can count 12 empty buildings when I look out the window. When I first moved downtown 5 years ago the same view would have had 20. I am trying to prove nothing...just saying that things are (slowly) changing around here. We don't pretend this is the greatest city in the world. We are aware of the issues we face right now. But this is home, and most of us are **** proud to call it home. It's hard to listen to people be critical of your home, even when it is sometimes deserved.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Very disappointing to see you argue against city stereotypes while lobbing a whopper of one out there about DC.

It was supposed to be relative.

IMHO, DC isn't as safe as most people like to think, just as Detroit isn't as dangerous as most people think. I don't think DC is equal to Detroit, just that it's not as precieved.

But, I'm good with piling on if it make my city look good.

 

[bluevox]

Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

Actually I wish I had known about it when I was there for GLI, we were looking for somewhere to go when Hockeytown was closed, we ended up going to some Irish bar that wasn't too bad, we were just looking for alcohol, afterall.

Some Irish bar? The Old Shillelagh perhaps?

http://www.oldshillelagh.com/