Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I was referring to the, "could be my son" or whatever. Like I said I am sure there was something behind it, but we'll have to agree to disagree that I can live with it as a parent that laments when someone else loses a child so unexpectedly.

Well, certainly. But you're a pretty sharp guy. Naivte isn't the word that pops into my head if I were asked to describe you. We will just have to disagree. Obama wanted it both ways here. And so far, he's getting it. Maybe growing up in Chicagoland in the days of the first Mayor Daley has made me ultra cynical. But in this instance, I don't think that's what's driving my analysis.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I was referring to the, "could be my son" or whatever. Like I said I am sure there was something behind it, but we'll have to agree to disagree that I can live with it as a parent that laments when someone else loses a child so unexpectedly.

btw, you're preaching to the choir when going after Jackson and Sharpton.

It remains to be seen whether these guys really are "black leaders" in any meaningful sense of the word, apart from "energizing the base" and lining their own pockets. Stokely Carmichael of the Student Non Violent Co-ordinating Committee (who later changed his name to Chaka Kahn or something) was once asked how many people were in his group. His answer (I'm paraphrasing): "15 brothers and about 35 network reporters"

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Well, certainly. But you're a pretty sharp guy. Naivte isn't the word that pops into my head if I were asked to describe you. We will just have to disagree. Obama wanted it both ways here. And so far, he's getting it. Maybe growing up in Chicagoland in the days of the first Mayor Daley has made me ultra cynical. But in this instance, I don't think that's what's driving my analysis.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he wanted it both ways. I guess in the end what matters most to me is that a kid is dead, an adult is about to stand trial for taking his life and as a parent I feel the pain.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I'm not disagreeing with you that he wanted it both ways. I guess in the end what matters most to me is that a kid is dead, an adult is about to stand trial for taking his life and as a parent I feel the pain.

And it was so unnecessary. We agree. The idea that a kid is going to go out on an inconsequential errand and you're never going to see him again is tough to wrap your brain around. And whether he died in the circumstances here or was killed by some guy running a red light or a drive by or a falling tree limb is beside the point.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I'm curious to know how much thc was in Martin's system. For those who don't know, thc is not water-soluble, which means that when it gets into the blood stream, it doesn't dissolve in the blood, thin out, and go away in a few hours like alcohol does. I don't know what a "trace" amount really means, but it could very easily mean that he got high the previous night. Or the previous week. And more to the point, you can tell whether someone is drunk by how much alcohol is in their blood. Because THC isn't water-soluble, THC in the blood is NOT an indication of being high.

All depends on the numbers. Also whether there was THC metabolites in the urine in his bladder. The word trace does not compute well for me. What some might call a trace could be far more substantial to a forensic pathologist. Speaking about these findings-it sure would be nice to know how qualified the fellow doing th autopsy was. Was he like Michael Baden qualified or was he someone who has done about 5 post mortems in his career? Perhaps this will be elicited at the trial. As a physician trying to digest what information has been released, I have lots of questions that I hope get answered. And i hope the court allows all the information to be presented and does not restrict what can be entered.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

And it was so unnecessary. We agree. The idea that a kid is going to go out on an inconsequential errand and you're never going to see him again is tough to wrap your brain around. And whether he died in the circumstances here or was killed by some guy running a red light or a drive by or a falling tree limb is beside the point.

Just about the best 4 sentence summary of how this all should be thought of.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Bob and OP - you're probably right there was some calculation with that statement. But even if that's true if the underlying sentiment is that of a parent empathizing with such a loss I can live with it. Any voter worth his/her salt wasn't swayed either way and the rest will swim in another direction the next time the tide changes. As it is one life has been lost and another hangs in the balance and I'd rather discuss whether or these laws are fine as they or perhaps need some tweaking.

I fully agree. To me the Obama comment was always a sideshow and I agree that it'll be largely forgotten and the main focus is properly on the life that was lost and ensuing court case.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I fully agree. To me the Obama comment was always a sideshow and I agree that it'll be largely forgotten and the main focus is properly on the life that was lost and ensuing court case.

It won't be forgotten during "voter registration" drives in Florida, it won't be forgotton on election day with massive GOTV efforts to try to recreate what almost happened in '00. It won't be forgotten when thousands of so-called provisional ballots are cast because the "voters" can't identify themselves. After the election, it will be forgotten, but not before.

Turnout is the key factor in the black vote. We know what the percentages are going to be, don't we? Any suggestion that turnout isn't the key is equivalent to asking "what elephant?"

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

It won't be forgotten during "voter registration" drives in Florida, it won't be forgotton on election day with massive GOTV efforts to try to recreate what almost happened in '00. It won't be forgotten when thousands of so-called provisional ballots are cast because the "voters" can't identify themselves. After the election, it will be forgotten, but not before.

Turnout is the key factor in the black vote. We know what the percentages are going to be, don't we? Any suggestion that turnout isn't the key is equivalent to asking "what elephant?"

I'm not sure I see Obama's comment, in and of itself, leading to all that. The whole Martin/Zimmerman case in its entirety, yes, possibly, but not the Obama comment by itself.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

I'm not sure I see Obama's comment, in and of itself, leading to all that. The whole Martin/Zimmerman case in its entirety, yes, possibly, but not the Obama comment by itself.

He also subsequently posed with "Skillets," sending a very clear message on where he stood on this matter. I can't imagine that you're downplaying this obvious political manipulation. This is how Democrats charge up their most reliable constituency. The Reverands have been up to their lips in this nonsense for years.

Obviously His Panderness has to be careful and not be too obvious about this one. This isn't the same as a mouthy middle aged professor getting cuffed and stuffed. This is about a 17 year old who died. Nevertheless, he and his surrogates (including the MSM) are playing this one to the hilt. What do you suppose is going on in black media and at black churches these days, especially in Florida? His Oneness has given all of that the green light.

 

[Patman]

He also subsequently posed with "Skillets," sending a very clear message on where he stood on this matter. I can't imagine that you're downplaying this obvious political manipulation. This is how Democrats charge up their most reliable constituency. The Reverands have been up to their lips in this nonsense for years.

Obviously His Panderness has to be careful and not be too obvious about this one. This isn't the same as a mouthy middle aged professor getting cuffed and stuffed. This is about a 17 year old who died. Nevertheless, he and his surrogates (including the MSM) are playing this one to the hilt. What do you suppose is going on in black media and at black churches these days, especially in Florida? His Oneness has given all of that the green light.

Bingo... The only reason this continues is because the media wants the optics of racism that they've assured themselves happened here. As it can be more than noted, they could have found a new pretty white girl... Unless their interest is in pointing out racism for a political edge.

We are aware that the president and others have constructed a meme of an inherently racially biased society. Further the DOJ is pursuing that assumption in this case. I believe that the continual pursuit in this case is ultimately about generating action along the line of racial animus. Further, I believe that the president is not above stoking racial flames as he has given cause to do so in the past. I think ignoring the president's past and current practices is the "good man" syndrome in that we will never allow ourselves to believe a complete scumbag can rise to power.

Otherwise, why is the media so HEAVILY invested in what is essentially a series of lies? Why are they going for it so hard despite contradictory evidence? If its "just for viewer count" then what else do they feel so apocalyptically shameless about?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Bingo... The only reason this continues is because the media wants the optics of racism that they've assured themselves happened here. As it can be more than noted, they could have found a new pretty white girl... Unless their interest is in pointing out racism for a political edge.

We are aware that the president and others have constructed a meme of an inherently racially biased society. Further the DOJ is pursuing that assumption in this case. I believe that the continual pursuit in this case is ultimately about generating action along the line of racial animus. Further, I believe that the president is not above stoking racial flames as he has given cause to do so in the past. I think ignoring the president's past and current practices is the "good man" syndrome in that we will never allow ourselves to believe a complete scumbag can rise to power.

Otherwise, why is the media so HEAVILY invested in what is essentially a series of lies? Why are they going for it so hard despite contradictory evidence? If its "just for viewer count" then what else do they feel so apocalyptically shameless about?

As a guy who has spent 35 years trying to report news fairly and accurately on the radio, I was shocked by the MSM's seemingly endless efforts to tip the scales in this one, including fraudulent edits. However, the prize winner has to be the NYT, which rushed into print with "white Hispanic" to describe Zimmerman. I'd bet that's the first time that phrase has been used, ever (and family photos have subsequently revealed his grandfather was blacker than Oprah). But it was important to keep the focus on "white guy shoots innocent black kid (who apparantly is still 12 years old) who was only getting some "Skillets" at all costs. And if integrity, honesty and accuracy were sacrificed along the way, then so be it.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

TO OLD PIO:

There is a difference between colored bits of sugary candy and a frying pan. I just can't take it any more. Sorry.

Skittles, not skillets, please.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Yes, I know the difference. But one network "news anchor" doesn't. You'll notice I put quotation marks around "skillets." I'm quoting him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt6zqCXwMXA

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

TO OLD PIO:

There is a difference between colored bits of sugary candy and a frying pan. I just can't take it any more. Sorry.

Skittles, not skillets, please.

a

 

[joecct]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Pat Buchanan weighs in: http://buchanan.org/blog/what-if-zi...an+(Pat+Buchanan+Update)&utm_content=My+Yahoo

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Pat Buchanan weighs in: http://buchanan.org/blog/what-if-zi...an+(Pat+Buchanan+Update)&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Pat raises a valid point, IMO. Compare the reaction to the Simi Valley verdict (which I believe the jury got wrong) to the reaction to the OJ verdict. In the former you had rioting at Florence and Normandie, Reginald Denny pulled from his truck and beaten with chunks of concrete (his life was saved by brave African Americans who put their own lives at risk to get him out of there before the thugs could finish what they started), millions of dollars in damage to local businesses and an LAPD that ran from the scene and left the rioters in charge.

In the latter, you had people disgusted with an obvious miscarriage of justice but no riots, no looting, no arsons, no beat downs.

As they used to say: "Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear" and revisit that savage attack by remorseless urban animals on a helpless victim. I wish to God somebody had shot Damien "Football" Williams right between the eyes while he was doing his little endzone dance after hitting a defenseless, totally innocent person in the head with a chunk of concrete. Actually Denny wasn't reallly innocent, was he? After all, he was white.

http://www.eurweb.com/2012/04/damie...er-reginald-denny-in-la-riots-breaks-silence/

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Read this previously.

Pat Buchanan weighs in: http://buchanan.org/blog/what-if-zi...an+(Pat+Buchanan+Update)&utm_content=My+Yahoo

Pat: With this evidence, how can a jury convict Zimmerman of murder?

Of course it couldn't be that they just might find him guilty of murder.

So with the question: What happens if Zimmerman walks free, there are many ways that the article could go. Of course it could raise the issue of justice being done...but as Buchanan likely started with the end in mind, we end up with the demand of an apology from the president. Pretty hack job by an analyst who used to be worthy of respect.

 

[duper]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Again, we of course don't know all the facts, but based on what we do know, a conviction would not be justice. There is just too much reasonable room for doubt.

And I freely admit that my gut (which may well have s h i t for brains) thinks Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. But there is a HUGE difference between real moral and ethical guilt, and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree strenuously with the idea that it is better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man lose his liberty.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Florida vs. Zimmerman - Q.E.D????????

Again, we of course don't know all the facts, but based on what we do know, a conviction would not be justice. There is just too much reasonable room for doubt.

And I freely admit that my gut (which may well have s h i t for brains) thinks Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter. But there is a HUGE difference between real moral and ethical guilt, and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree strenuously with the idea that it is better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man lose his liberty.

Point remains that stand your ground could change the outcome of this trial towards acquittal and we'll never know if it did or not. As long as that's the case, by definition an acquittal guarantees we won't know whether justice was done as most of America considers it.