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Fire Mike Eaves?

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

icebadger said:
FWIW, Wisconsin's volleyball coach resigned yesterday in a move "dictated by athletic department officials".
Link
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This is a huge development. Waite was really great from 99-07 (3 time conf champs, 1 ncaa runner-up), then they took a huge dump and never really got back to that level. His teams had to stink from 08-12 for BA to fire him. Eaves has been down and up with more downs than ups, 5 years making the ncaa's, 6 years not, no conference titles of any kind, but 1 ncaa title and 1 runner up. UW stunk last year, they stink this year, the writing on the wall says they'll stink next year. Will BA give him up to 5 years of stinking? Maybe not considering men's hockey revenue is way more critical to the AD than volleyball's revenue. On the reverse side, BA will probably buy Eaves' defense of injuries and the Kerdiles deal. BA, being a self prescribed "not a hockey guy" won't be able to see the cupboard isn't getting stocked up any time soon. On the other hand, Waite did have the #1 recruit in the nation lined up and still got fired, but I suspect BA had no idea of this.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

As of now Mike Eaves coached Badgers have won just half of their games played, and I expect will fall below that mark this weekend.

Career record 210-163-46 --- 210 wins/ 419 games = 50.1% wins

For comparison:

Bob Johnson(WI) 367-175-23 --- 367 wins/ 565 games = 65.5% wins

Jeff Sauer(WI) 489-306-46 --- 489 wins/ 841 games = 58.1% wins

Don Lucia(MN) 318-171-54 --- 318 wins/ 543 games = 58.6% wins

Dean Blais(ND) 262-115-34 --- 262 wins/ 411 games = 63.7% wins

George Gwozdecky(DU) 311-195-40 --- 311 wins/ 546 games = 57% wins

Jeff Jackson(LSS, ND) 323-131-52 --- 323 wins/ 506 games = 63.8% wins

Enrico Blasi(Miami) 262-169-46 --- 262 wins/ 477 games = 54.9% wins

Tom Serratore(Bemidji) 198-169-43 --- 198 wins/ 410 games = 48.3%


I realise measuring this way punishes ties as they are usually calculated as half win/half loss. But a 10-10-10 record is .500 that way, and you only won 1 out of 3 games. I'd like to know how often you actually win. At any rate: Mike Eaves Hockey- "Out of every 200 games, we win 3 more than Bemidji!!"
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
As of now Mike Eaves coached Badgers have won just half of their games played, and I expect will fall below that mark this weekend.

Career record 210-163-46 --- 210 wins/ 419 games = 50.1% wins
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have thought Eaves would deserve a firing.

But slipping below .500 for a program like WI is pretty tough.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
As of now Mike Eaves coached Badgers have won just half of their games played, and I expect will fall below that mark this weekend.

Career record 210-163-46 --- 210 wins/ 419 games = 50.1% wins
Click to expand...

Wow, this is sobering. As under-performing as the team has been the last few years in particular, I still would have expected a better overall winning percentage.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Here's a little different comparison: Mike Eaves record (210-163-46) extrapolated out to the same number of games as these coaches for comparison purposes.



COACH ** RECORD ** Total games ** %wins ** EAVES' EXTRAPOLATED RECORD

Jerry York(BC) 880-547-93 1520 games; 57.9% wins 762-592-166 (-118 wins)

Jack Parker(BU) 850-444-112 1406 games; 60.5% wins 705-547-154 (-145 wins)

Red Berenson(MI) 728-339-73 1140 games; 63.9% wins 571- 444-125 (-157 wins)

Jeff Sauer(WI) 489-306-46 841 games; 58.1% wins 421-327-93 (-68 wins)

Doug Woog(MN) 390-188-40 618 games; 63.1% wins 310- 240-68 (-70 wins)

Bob Johnson(WI) 367-175-23 565 games; 65.5% wins 283- 220-62 (-84 wins)

George Gwozdecky(DU) 311-195-40 546 games; 57% wins 273-213-60 (-38 wins)

Don Lucia(MN) 318-171-54 543 games; 58.6% wins 272-212-59 (-46 wins)

Jeff Jackson(LSS, ND) 323-131-52 506 games; 63.8% wins 254-197-55 (-69 wins)

Enrico Blasi(Miami) 262-169-46 477 games; 54.9% wins 239-186- 52 (-23 wins)

Dean Blais(ND) 262-115-34 411 games 63.7% wins 206-160-45 (-56wins)

Tom Serratore(Bemidji) 198-169-43 410 games; 48.3% wins 205-160-52 +7 wins

Dave Hakstol(ND) 187-93-27 307 games 60.9% wins 154-119-34 (-33 wins)



What does this all mean? Well maybe nothing. I was wondering what another 5 or 10 years would mean and how Eaves record compares to other programs. We have a pretty good sample from Eaves to project out what we might expect in the future.
If you do the math the difference between the average of this whole group and Eaves is around 4 wins per year. Doesn't sound like much. But it is the difference between 16-18 and 20-14. Or 22-12 and 26-8. I think there's no doubt young Mr. Eaves is a good coach. The records on the right are certainly respectable and he's proven capable of coaching a talented team to the top. The question is: Is this an acceptable standard of performance at Wisconsin? Jeff Sauer was a fine coach with many accomplishments but in my mind was overall a step down in the program. Coach Eaves, it appears, has been another subtle step down. A lot goes into this and you can make many arguments regarding parity, level of competition, etc., but in the end, I just can't help but feel the standard at Wisconsin should be higher.
 
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Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko, it probably doesn't matter in your calculated win differentials, but if you're going to calculate winning % for coaches/teams where ties are involved you need to add half the value of their ties to the win total. For instance Lucia's winning % is actually around 63%, York around 61%...
 
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Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Slap Shot said:
Wisko, it probably doesn't matter in your calculated win differentials, but if you're going to calculate winning % for coaches/teams where ties are involved you need to add half the value of their ties to the win total. For instance Lucia's winning % is actually around 63%, York around 61%...
Click to expand...

Thanks Slap Shot, as I pointed out in the previous post, I was interested in looking at wins/games:
Wisko McBadgerton said:
I realize measuring this way punishes ties as they are usually calculated as half win/half loss. But a 10-10-10 record is .500 that way, and you only won 1 out of 3 games. I'd like to know how often you actually win.
Click to expand...

Ties are valuable in hockey and admittedly this skews slightly against Eaves, as has been discussed elsewhere, and the comparison numbers above bear out; Eaves teams have a larger propensity for ties than everyone else on the list.

I found it interesting that the difference between the average wins of the coaches above and Eaves' Badgers came out to just about 4 wins per year. (Individual comparisons vary, for example Badger Bob's record is closer to 6 wins/season better, while Sauer's is almost exactly four.) As I said, it doesn't seem like a lot but it is every year, and I wondered how just four more conference wins/season would have changed the Badgers WCHA standing the last 11 years. So here it is:


YEAR ** WCHA FINISH ** PLUS FOUR WINS FINISH

2002 **** 5th ***** t4th

2003 **** 8th **** 8th

2004 **** 3rd **** t1st

2005 **** t3rd **** 1st

2006 **** t2nd **** 1st

2007 **** t6th **** t2nd

2008 **** 6th **** 3rd

2009 **** 3rd **** t1st

2010 **** 2nd **** 1st

2011 **** 7th **** t4th

2012 **** 10th **** 5th


Actual avg finish-5th **** Plus four wins average finish- 2.8

Average finish for WCHA teams last 11 years.

DU 2.7
ND-3.1
MN-3.5
CC-3.8
WI-5

It just illustrates what the frustration with Coach Eaves is for Badger fans. He's far from a bad coach. With just a couple more wins plus (god forbid) a couple more ties, (however you want to figure it,) the Badgers have three outright conference titles, (plus two t1st) vs. zero and ending only a tick behind DU for the best average conference finish. Or instead, if those extra wins come in the final five, or the NCAA's, nobody is complaining. The point is that Eaves record while still good, falls short of what we should expect at Wisconsin, which is a record comparable to the best coaches and programs in the country. (Or comparable to Sauer's?)
Will Coach Eaves put together another title winner/contender in the next ten years? Probably. Will Wisconsin hockey remain just outside the elite programs over the next ten years? Probably. What to do... what to do...
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
It just illustrates what the frustration with Coach Eaves is for Badger fans. He's far from a bad coach. With just a couple more wins plus (god forbid) a couple more ties, (however you want to figure it,) the Badgers have three outright conference titles, (plus two t1st) vs. zero and ending only a tick behind DU for the best average conference finish. Or instead, if those extra wins come in the final five, or the NCAA's, nobody is complaining. The point is that Eaves record while still good, falls short of what we should expect at Wisconsin, which is a record comparable to the best coaches and programs in the country. (Or comparable to Sauer's?)
Will Coach Eaves put together another title winner/contender in the next ten years? Probably. Will Wisconsin hockey remain just outside the elite programs over the next ten years? Probably. What to do... what to do...
Click to expand...

I know you were just do a quick and dirty analysis, but if you add 4 wins to the Badger's record over those years, who gets the losses? All non-conference games? All conference teams? It could even improve the average finish more.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Thanks Slap Shot, as I pointed out in the previous post, I was interested in looking at wins/games:

Ties are valuable in hockey and admittedly this skews slightly against Eaves, as has been discussed elsewhere, and the comparison numbers above bear out; Eaves teams have a larger propensity for ties than everyone else on the list.
...
Click to expand...
are you taking away losses or ties?
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

You have to remember also that this is the Badgers we are talking about, and karma will never be good. That has to count for a handful of wins each year.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Shirtless Guy said:
are you taking away losses or ties?
Click to expand...

Sorry, this seems to be causing some unintended confusion. Here are the above named coaches actual winning percentages.

Mike Eaves 210-163-46 419 games; .556

Jerry York(BC) 880-547-93 1520 games; .610

Jack Parker(BU) 850-444-112 1406 games; .644

Red Berenson(MI) 728-339-73 1140 games; .671

Jeff Sauer(WI) 489-306-46 841 games; .609

Doug Woog(MN) 390-188-40 618 games; .663

Bob Johnson(WI) 367-175-23 565 games; .670

George Gwozdecky(DU) 311-195-40 546 games; .606

Don Lucia(MN) 318-171-54 543 games; .635

Enrico Blasi(Miami) 262-169-46 477 games; .597

Dean Blais(ND) 262-115-34 411 games; .679

Tom Serratore(Bemidji) 198-169-43 410 games; .535

Dave Hakstol(ND) 187-93-27 307 games; .653


In my original post I simply observed that with a sweep by Denver this weekend, Eaves Badger's will potentially have WON less than 50% of their starts. It discounts completely ties or losses, only referencing how many times they took the ice and subsequently left it with a WIN. That does not make Eaves a less than .500 coach. He has a .556 win percentage.

The subsequent post compares Eaves record extrapolated to the same number of games as these other coaches. In other words, based on the past 11 years how would Eaves record compare to these other coaches if he coached the same number of games? I showed that because me saying Eaves has a .556 win percentage, and Sauer had a .609, and Serratore has a .535, and Badger Bob had a .670, all says something, but not in a specific way as to what it really means. You can look at the W-L-T comparison and hopefully see something more specific.
Lastly, I observed that on average, Eaves wins 4 less games/season than the other coaches average as a group. Then simply point out how that would have theoretically affected the Badgers conference standings over the last 11 years. (assuming conference wins)

It all is just trying to illustrate a comparison between Eaves and other elite, long-tenured coaches.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Innova said:
I know you were just do a quick and dirty analysis, but if you add 4 wins to the Badger's record over those years, who gets the losses? All non-conference games? All conference teams? It could even improve the average finish more.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!! You are right on the money. My quick numbers would assume that those wins came only against teams that already finished lower than WI, (which is probably not even possible) So maybe the Badgers have FIVE outright conference titles? Most likely they at least pass DU for #1 average finish.

It also illustrates the small difference between being elite and being just on the cusp of it. The coaches/programs I used are at the very top. But, I guess, that's who Wisconsin should be measuring themselves against, isn't it? No disrespect to Serratore who has done an excellent job, but don't we feel with Wisconsin's advantages, we should be doing better than just barely outpacing Bemidji and trailing Miami?

I want those 3 or 4 or 5 extra wins every year.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Sorry, this seems to be causing some unintended confusion. Here are the above named coaches actual winning percentages.

In my original post I simply observed that with a sweep by Denver this weekend, Eaves Badger's will potentially have WON less than 50% of their starts. It discounts completely ties or losses, only referencing how many times they took the ice and subsequently left it with a WIN. That does not make Eaves a less than .500 coach. He has a .556 win percentage.

The subsequent post compares Eaves record extrapolated to the same number of games as these other coaches. In other words, based on the past 11 years how would Eaves record compare to these other coaches if he coached the same number of games? I showed that because me saying Eaves has a .556 win percentage, and Sauer had a .609, and Serratore has a .535, and Badger Bob had a .670, all says something, but not in a specific way as to what it really means. You can look at the W-L-T comparison and hopefully see something more specific.
Lastly, I observed that on average, Eaves wins 4 less games/season than the other coaches average as a group. Then simply point out how that would have theoretically affected the Badgers conference standings over the last 11 years. (assuming conference wins)

It all is just trying to illustrate a comparison between Eaves and other elite, long-tenured coaches.
Click to expand...
So you're adding 8 points their finish, meaning you're replacing 4 losses with 4 wins (extremely flawed). That's changing 14% of the conference games, not to mention, I would think it would be better to add 5/6 points assuming one of the wins was an upgrade over a tie, another was non-conference whether playoffs or NC. You can't just say other coaches win an average of 4 more games than Eaves and then ignore more ties all-together and expect any of us to think your math makes sense. Not to mention the fact that giving UW 8 more points means the other 9-11 teams have 8 less points, which changes standings...where does it change standings?
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

I think the GPL guys summed it up best during their podcast with Jess Myers after the Gopher vs Badger series.

Wisconsin hockey fans, in general, are not knowledgable, passionate hockey fans. Jess's story about a Badger fan screaming at the Badgers to "shoot, the net is open" on a delayed penalty on the Badgers was PURE GOLD.

Badger Hockey was popular during the 70's and 80's because Badger Football and Basketball were brutal. They aren't anymore, and Badger Hockey is becoming more and more irrelevant in Madison.

You guys are high if you think Barry cares about Badger hockey under-performing when a majority of people in the state of Wisconsin probably couldn't care less as long as football and basketball are performing.

Congratulations, your school's indifference towards hockey is beginning to rival that of Ohio State, and it's because (like in Ohio) the majority of your state's residents are indifferent as well.
 
Nick Papagiorgio said:
Well duh, that's because they aren't from Minnesota.
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There are knowledgable, passionate hockey fanbases outside of Minnesota, and some not so passionate fan bases inside Minnesota. Wisconsin's fan base isn't knowledgable or passionate for the sport (again, in general) and it has nothing to do with the state of Minnesota. And I'm hardly the only person who feels that way (note the podcast I referenced).

That's why I think this sense of entitlement is pretty laughable.
 
Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

JDUBBS1280 said:
I think the GPL guys summed it up best during their podcast with Jess Myers after the Gopher vs Badger series.

Wisconsin hockey fans, in general, are not knowledgable, passionate hockey fans. Jess's story about a Badger fan screaming at the Badgers to "shoot, the net is open" on a delayed penalty on the Badgers was PURE GOLD.

Badger Hockey was popular during the 70's and 80's because Badger Football and Basketball were brutal. They aren't anymore, and Badger Hockey is becoming more and more irrelevant in Madison.

You guys are high if you think Barry cares about Badger hockey under-performing when a majority of people in the state of Wisconsin probably couldn't care less as long as football and basketball are performing.

Congratulations, your school's indifference towards hockey is beginning to rival that of Ohio State, and it's because (like in Ohio) the majority of your state's residents are indifferent as well.
Click to expand...

Even as a Minnesota native who grew up following my high school team and the North Stars before going to school at Wisconsin, I feel confident saying you are textbook reason people tend to dislike Gopher fans.

Even within the "State of Hockey", Gopher hockey is slotted under the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves, Wild, Gopher basketball and the Lynx to the average Minnesota sports fan.
 
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