Fire Mike Eaves?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

So you're adding 8 points their finish, meaning you're replacing 4 losses with 4 wins (extremely flawed). That's changing 14% of the conference games, not to mention, I would think it would be better to add 5/6 points assuming one of the wins was an upgrade over a tie, another was non-conference whether playoffs or NC. You can't just say other coaches win an average of 4 more games than Eaves and then ignore more ties all-together and expect any of us to think your math makes sense. Not to mention the fact that giving UW 8 more points means the other 9-11 teams have 8 less points, which changes standings...where does it change standings?

How dare you poke holes in my math! I'll have you know I completed the 4th grade and everything!

Of course, setting that aside, I agree with you almost completely. I'm too lazy to figure the permutations, (because it gets complicated, as you state) but just adding 5/6 pts. as you suggest (maybe 2 wins plus 1 or two converted ties, three ties converted plus one win, etc.) would give the Badgers either 1st or t1st in three seasons. (assuming zero pts lost by other top team.)

8 pts., with 0 pts. lost by the other top teams, would give them 1st or t1st in 5 seasons. Again, that may not be possible without taking pts. from the other top teams in all cases. I agree that's not as likely a scenario. However both those situations do assume never winning one more or converting any tie against the other top teams.

Also to your last point about where it changes the standings, again you're correct in that it doesn't address that. It is only comparing a hypothetical situation of the Badgers winning a few more conference games, against what has actually transpired in the conference. I'm not trying to state factual cases for where the Badgers (or anybody else) would have definitely finished, but simply point out that those few games won/lost/tied each year are a large part of the difference from where the Badgers are, and where they should be. It is not easy to win those few more games, but that is, over time, what separates the top from the near top/middle.


What would Eaves record look like with 4 more wins/year? Probably something like 254-131-34 for a .606 winning percentage. Oddly, exactly the same as Gwozdecky, nearly the same a Sauer.

EDIT: Actually, in thinking about it, if WI converted much more than 1 tie/year it would skew Eaves record the other way and he have far fewer ties than everybody. Realistically the 4 wins would generally have to be 3 converted losses and one converted tie. But who's counting.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

I think the GPL guys summed it up best during their podcast with Jess Myers after the Gopher vs Badger series.

Wisconsin hockey fans, in general, are not knowledgable, passionate hockey fans. Jess's story about a Badger fan screaming at the Badgers to "shoot, the net is open" on a delayed penalty on the Badgers was PURE GOLD.

Badger Hockey was popular during the 70's and 80's because Badger Football and Basketball were brutal. They aren't anymore, and Badger Hockey is becoming more and more irrelevant in Madison.

You guys are high if you think Barry cares about Badger hockey under-performing when a majority of people in the state of Wisconsin probably couldn't care less as long as football and basketball are performing.

Congratulations, your school's indifference towards hockey is beginning to rival that of Ohio State, and it's because (like in Ohio) the majority of your state's residents are indifferent as well.

Gotta love the one shoe fits all generalization about knowledge and passion here. The rest of this post there is plenty of truth to.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Gotta love the one shoe fits all generalization about knowledge and passion here. The rest of this post there is plenty of truth to.

Of course it's a generalization. I admitted as much. I am sure there are some very knowledgable, passionate UW Hockey fans. It is just a widely held perception of the Badger Hockey fan base. When Jess Myers is laughing about it, it says something.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, and I realize I was rather blunt, but I just don't understand the sense of entitlement or agree with it.

I don't see any reason why UW should be above periods like this when the school's own administration and fan base (again, in general) don't care as much about the sport as they do football or basketball.

Again, see Ohio State. I think they should expect or feel entitled to success about as much as Wisconsin moving forward.

History is just that. History. Priorities have changed at UW.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Of course it's a generalization. I admitted as much. I am sure there are some very knowledgable, passionate UW Hockey fans. It is just a widely held perception of the Badger Hockey fan base. When Jess Myers is laughing about it, it says something.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, and I realize I was rather blunt, but I just don't understand the sense of entitlement or agree with it.

I don't see any reason why UW should be above periods like this when the school's own administration and fan base (again, in general) don't care as much about the sport as they do football or basketball.

Again, see Ohio State. I think they should expect or feel entitled to success about as much as Wisconsin moving forward.

History is just that. History. Priorities have changed at UW.

The difference between Ohio State and Wisconsin is obvious...history and tradition. Wisconsin has a reputation of being a good program that always has a chance at finishing near the top of the WCHA and making a run in the NCAA playoffs. That hasn't panned out lately and I think that has more to do with early departure syndrome finally catching up with the Badgers. It hit the Gophers for a stretch and Don seems to be rebounding from that now...Eaves is still getting there I think. Now do I think Eaves should do better than he has with what he's had...yes, should he be replaced? I don't and honestly once they're out of the WCHA, I won't really care.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisconsin dropped their program for 30 years, so excuse me if I don't buy into the "history and tradition" factor.

Yes, the had some success in years past, but if you put aside National Titles and look at conference hardware, it's much less impressive. They have certainly capitalized on opportunities, but they aren't in my Top 10 schools when I think of history and tradition. And their fan base is part of that.

That said, winning in the past means little IMO. Priorities have changed at UW. Football and basketball no longer suck. Badger Hockey is no longer the convenient distraction from the fact that their football and basketball programs weren't winning. As such, people care far less about Badger Hockey.

Moving forward I think we'll see Wisconsin's priorities to hockey mirror more-and-more closely what you see at Ohio State.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Wisconsin dropped their program for 30 years, so excuse me if I don't buy into the "history and tradition" factor.

Yes, the had some success in years past, but if you put aside National Titles and look at conference hardware, it's much less impressive. They have certainly capitalized on opportunities, but they aren't in my Top 10 schools when I think of history and tradition. And their fan base is part of that.

That said, winning in the past means little IMO. Priorities have changed at UW. Football and basketball no longer suck. Badger Hockey is no longer the convenient distraction from the fact that their football and basketball programs weren't winning. As such, people care far less about Badger Hockey.

Moving forward I think we'll see Wisconsin's priorities to hockey mirror more-and-more closely what you see at Ohio State.

I don't see that being true, not that I'm really sure what the hell you mean.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Of course it's a generalization. I admitted as much. I am sure there are some very knowledgable, passionate UW Hockey fans. It is just a widely held perception of the Badger Hockey fan base. When Jess Myers is laughing about it, it says something.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, and I realize I was rather blunt, but I just don't understand the sense of entitlement or agree with it.

I don't see any reason why UW should be above periods like this when the school's own administration and fan base (again, in general) don't care as much about the sport as they do football or basketball.

Again, see Ohio State. I think they should expect or feel entitled to success about as much as Wisconsin moving forward.

History is just that. History. Priorities have changed at UW.

any university that has the history of success that UW does at Hockey will be scrutinized heavily. So yes, we expect greatness and feel entitled to it since we've seen it in the past. nothing new there. I don't see why you're surprised unless you think that the only hockey that matters anywhere are games played exclusively by minnesotans. and that fans of said games/teams have the exclusive right to feel their team should be great.

if that's the case I feel sorry for you. do you get all red-face and scream "cheaters!" when Wisconsin, DU or Nodak defeat UMN and a Canuck plays a significant role in that victory?

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I don't see that being true, not that I'm really sure what the hell you mean.

I don't think it's that hard to understand, so I won't repeat it or further clarify.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Don't feed the troll

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

they aren't in my Top 10 schools when I think of history and tradition.

Would you mind saying who is in your top ten?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

I don't think it's that hard to understand, so I won't repeat it or further clarify.

Name one example where Wisconsin has changed their funding to show you they will start trending towards not caring about hockey? Bottom line is Hockey is a revenue/near revenue sport at Wisconsin so it will always be a priority to anyone with half a brain, now if you want to say Alvarez doesn't have one...that's fine. It's obvious that any time you go from an AD with a hockey background to a former football coach, there will be some stupid issues related to that...no one denies that but to claim Wisconsin will just stop caring about Hockey is plain stupid. The problem with Wisconsin is Eaves has seemed unable to have reloading years and is stuck in a rebuild mode. Wisconsin is a great program and should probably have won 2-4 more games a year in the "down years" and then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion at all because they would have made the tournament a majority of the time, won title and made it to another under Eaves. I do know Wisconsin was near the top of the bubble in some of those "down years" so this really is a what have you done for me lately thing, not a Wisconsin has stopped caring about hockey thing (as a university).

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Don't feed the troll

Yes, because the many hockey fans who have this opinion are just "trolls", including Jess Myers, right?

I know the norm around here is to ignore truths in order to preserve the rosy cross-fanbase relationships formed here, but I am more interested in honest discussion.

You can spend all day crying "it shouldn't happen here" and "we're Wisconsin, we deserve better", but fact remains it HAS happened at UW and many people outside your fan base have honest, sobering opinions on why it's happening.

Madison has never been a hockey town, and it is becoming less and less so as the UW football and basketball programs stay good longer and longer.

Aparhy is creeping in, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Name one example where Wisconsin has changed their funding to show you they will start trending towards not caring about hockey? Bottom line is Hockey is a revenue/near revenue sport at Wisconsin so it will always be a priority to anyone with half a brain, now if you want to say Alvarez doesn't have one...that's fine. It's obvious that any time you go from an AD with a hockey background to a former football coach, there will be some stupid issues related to that...no one denies that but to claim Wisconsin will just stop caring about Hockey is plain stupid. The problem with Wisconsin is Eaves has seemed unable to have reloading years and is stuck in a rebuild mode. Wisconsin is a great program and should probably have won 2-4 more games a year in the "down years" and then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion at all because they would have made the tournament a majority of the time, won title and made it to another under Eaves. I do know Wisconsin was near the top of the bubble in some of those "down years" so this really is a what have you done for me lately thing, not a Wisconsin has stopped caring about hockey thing (as a university).

Stop knowing what you're talking about. It has no place in a conversation with him.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Stop knowing what you're talking about. It has no place in a conversation with him.

why thank you

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Name one example where Wisconsin has changed their funding to show you they will start trending towards not caring about hockey? Bottom line is Hockey is a revenue/near revenue sport at Wisconsin so it will always be a priority to anyone with half a brain, now if you want to say Alvarez doesn't have one...that's fine. It's obvious that any time you go from an AD with a hockey background to a former football coach, there will be some stupid issues related to that...no one denies that but to claim Wisconsin will just stop caring about Hockey is plain stupid. The problem with Wisconsin is Eaves has seemed unable to have reloading years and is stuck in a rebuild mode. Wisconsin is a great program and should probably have won 2-4 more games a year in the "down years" and then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion at all because they would have made the tournament a majority of the time, won title and made it to another under Eaves. I do know Wisconsin was near the top of the bubble in some of those "down years" so this really is a what have you done for me lately thing, not a Wisconsin has stopped caring about hockey thing (as a university).

Are you suggesting Ohio State doesn't care about their hockey program?

There is a difference between "not caring" and making the sport less of a priority. And I was referring to the sentiment towards hockey in general. Both with the administration and the fans.

I never once said UW "doesn't care" about hockey, or that they are spending less money on it. But I do doubt there will be much motivation to buy out Eaves and throw big money at a new coach.

You're awfully good at hearing what you want to hear and putting words in people's mouths. Perhaps you should dedicate some of that energy towards listening and comprehending, and not go into conversations with preconcieved notions.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Don't feed the doosh, I mean troll.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Are you suggesting Ohio State doesn't care about their hockey program?

There is a difference between "not caring" and making the sport less of a priority. And I was referring to the sentiment towards hockey in general. Both with the administration and the fans.

I never once said UW "doesn't care" about hockey, or that they are spending less money on it. But I do doubt there will be much motivation to buy out Eaves and throw big money at a new coach.

You're awfully good at hearing what you want to hear and putting words in people's mouths. Perhaps you should dedicate some of that energy towards listening and comprehending, and not go into conversations with preconcieved notions.

What has Ohio State done to show you they "care" about hockey? Wisconsin probably spends more on their women's team than most teams in the country spend on their men's team. Being less of a priority means taking away resources that were previously at the disposal of the program. Like maybe making the badgers hockey team actually drive to road trips, for cripes sake, the Badgers flew to Houghton the last time they played @MTU. Mike Eaves seems to have access to whatever he thinks he needs to run his program. Your perception that there is a lack of motivation to buy out Eaves and spend money on a new coach is misguided because its just as easily a long leash because Eaves has one a title and been to another final in the recent history. You make it sound like it's impossible to be successful in a town where you're 3rd fiddle. Do you really think in the grand scheme of things there are more BC/Michigan hockey fans than basketball or football?

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

Don't feed the doosh, I mean troll.

It's tough to do so when it's on a Wisconsin-specific thread.....

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Fire Mike Eaves?

It's tough to do so when it's on a Wisconsin-specific thread.....

Im bored at work...so there's that.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

What has Ohio State done to show you they "care" about hockey? Wisconsin probably spends more on their women's team than most teams in the country spend on their men's team. Being less of a priority means taking away resources that were previously at the disposal of the program. Like maybe making the badgers hockey team actually drive to road trips, for cripes sake, the Badgers flew to Houghton the last time they played @MTU. Mike Eaves seems to have access to whatever he thinks he needs to run his program. Your perception that there is a lack of motivation to buy out Eaves and spend money on a new coach is misguided because its just as easily a long leash because Eaves has one a title and been to another final in the recent history. You make it sound like it's impossible to be successful in a town where you're 3rd fiddle. Do you really think in the grand scheme of things there are more BC/Michigan hockey fans than basketball or football?

Winning <> Tradition. If a school started 5 years ago and won 5 straight titles, you could say they have been successful, but you would have a hard time convincing anyone they have as much history or tradition as a school that's been around 90+ years, made the tourney a ton of times, but has won fewer titles. So, stop using winning as they main criteria for judging a program's history and tradition. It's a factor, yes, but considering UW has far less conference hardware than its peers and shut down their program for 30 years, I wouldn't put UW in the Top 10 programs with history and tradition.

As far as $$ goes, you are right. Wisconsin probably spends more than Ohio State on hockey. By about $1 million a year to be specific. But Ohio State, I'm sure, spends more on football and basketball.

It's not like Ohio State just started their hockey program. It's been around a while. The factor you refuse to acknowledge is, Ohio State had a reputable football and basketball program for much of that time. Wisconsin didn't.

So, while I am sure Ohio State has always "cared" about how well their hockey program has done, the fact they hadn't had much success wasn't a huge dissapointment to Ohio State fans in general because they had their minds on other sports. While at UW, the hockey program was the only sport winning anything, and it took minds off the failures in football and basketball.

That has changed. UW has seen sustained success in football and basketball, and you're being less than honest if you think those sports aren't more important to the average UW fan than hockey. Even well respected hockey writers like Jess Myers have openly commented about this. Madison has never been a hockey town. Hockey has just been the most successful sport for UW in the past.

As for hockey revenue, the men's program makes a profit of $1.3 million ($5.2 million revenue and $4 million in expenses). It's not a big money maker for Wisconsin. So I don't see them buying out Eaves and throwing more money at a new coach when the majority of UW sports fans are more focused on football and basketball these days.

So yes, I do think there will be a shift in priorities at UW similar to what is at Ohio State. But to think the opposite is true, and that Barry is staying up nights thinking "we're Wisconsin, we can't suck at hockey" is a complete joke.