EZAC??? I think not!!!

[state of hockey]

The complete lack of basic respect from WCHA homers has been evident on these boards for many, many years. You have it reversed in terms of "butt-hurt."

Brilliant.

 

[matt]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

Only true for Ivies, which have their own rules. And which also happen to have financial endowments big enough that they can set their financial aid requirements pretty much however they want to. (It is absolutely true that athletes are treated exactly like everyone else with regard to financial aid, and that all aid is need-based. But they get to determine the need. I believe Harvard toyed with the idea of abolishing tuition altogether a few years ago.)

Schools like Union can give all the academic scholarships they want to. And there's nothing wrong with it.

http://www.union.edu/admissions/union/index.php

Read the paragraph on costs and financial aid.

Why? Was there something unclear about, "The schools that offer only need-based scholarships do so based on financial need only."?
I'm very well familiar with which schools are need-based scholarship only and which are not.

 

[Gallant Union Goalie 95]

Thank you for your cluelessness.
The schools that offer only need-based scholarships do so based on financial need only. The hockey players are no different than any other students at those schools wrt financial aid.

So how many of the players in the WCHA could qualify to get into half of the ECAC schools (Harvard, Brown, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, Union) AGAIN, MY MAIN POINT IS MUCH LARGER PLAYER POOL TO DRAFT FROM. Let's dumb it down even more. You are an NHL manager but the other divisions get to draft players from all over Europe and north america while your division can only draft players from north america. Talking about scholarships is only one aspect as is having the grades to get into the school even if a player wanted to play at say Harvard instead of a school like Michigan. I'm not targeting Michigan just using a big name school for example

 

[MavHockey14]

So how many of the players in the WCHA could qualify to get into half of the ECAC schools (Harvard, Brown, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, Union) AGAIN, MY MAIN POINT IS MUCH LARGER PLAYER POOL TO DRAFT FROM. Let's dumb it down even more. You are an NHL manager but the other divisions get to draft players from all over Europe and north america while your division can only draft players from north america. Talking about scholarships is only one aspect as is having the grades to get into the school even if a player wanted to play at say Harvard instead of a school like Michigan. I'm not targeting Michigan just using a big name school for example

Are you trying to tell me ECAC schools are smarter strictly because of their school's grades or academic prestige? You realize all of the hockey players get let in because the coach needs to recruit good players, not just smart guys to suit up. Maybe a fifth of the team would normally get in.

 

[matt]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

So how many of the players in the WCHA could qualify to get into half of the ECAC schools (Harvard, Brown, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, Union) AGAIN, MY MAIN POINT IS MUCH LARGER PLAYER POOL TO DRAFT FROM. Let's dumb it down even more. You are an NHL manager but the other divisions get to draft players from all over Europe and north america while your division can only draft players from north america. Talking about scholarships is only one aspect as is having the grades to get into the school even if a player wanted to play at say Harvard instead of a school like Michigan. I'm not targeting Michigan just using a big name school for example

Not sure why you included Union in that list instead of Cornell?
In any case, it's more complicated than that, because I'm pretty sure the Ivies still operate that infernal "Academic Index" to restrict who they can admit. Without the AI, I would expect the main barrier to be financial, not academic.

 

[Gallant Union Goalie 95]

Not sure why you included Union in that list instead of Cornell?
In any case, it's more complicated than that, because I'm pretty sure the Ivies still operate that infernal "Academic Index" to restrict who they can admit. Without the AI, I would expect the main barrier to be financial, not academic.

If union wins we would have seeds 3,12,13,15 as frozen four. Umass Lowell would feel pretty good about that, lol

 

[duper]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

I said it is easier to get into a school like Michigan than a school like Union as per the grades you need to get in. An A at Union was minimum 92% and an 80 was a B-!! So yeah good grades at Union would be tougher to achieve

Do you think those grade standards are unusual? If so, why do you think that?

Of course, that is entirely beside the point. What makes a tougher school tougher isn't the number that you arbitrarily assign to a given letter, it is how tough it is to do whatever needs to be done to earn that letter. (In other words, percentage means absolutely nothing whatsoever, at any school anywhere in the country. What is important is the amount of work, and the difficulty of that work, required to get an A. And a percentage (percentage of what, I wonder) means nothing.)

 

[TimU]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

Why? Was there something unclear about, "The schools that offer only need-based scholarships do so based on financial need only."?
I'm very well familiar with which schools are need-based scholarship only and which are not.

Well, you were saying it in the context of an argument featuring Union as the primary example of ECAC restrictions, so yes. You could have said Ivy League Schools - phrasing it like you did suggested you may have been trying to include Union.

 

[goblue24]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

The thought of Union finding ways to give player scholarships in some fashion is wrong. Now it would be easier to be accepted into Union based upon playing hockey, but they can't get a scholarship for playing hockey. If a player is from a challenged economical situation, he would have his situation accessed in comparison to other of similar situations. Scholarships in not for profits are either restricted funds or permanents funds with the interest being restricted. Either way, there are so many regulations set in place by schools and even Generally Accepted Accounting Principals, where they do even have to disclose to (even not publics, in a somewhat disclosure base) FASB.

 

[TimU]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

Not sure why you included Union in that list instead of Cornell?
In any case, it's more complicated than that, because I'm pretty sure the Ivies still operate that infernal "Academic Index" to restrict who they can admit. Without the AI, I would expect the main barrier to be financial, not academic.

The AI requires that the average academic profile of athletes be reasonably similar to the average academic profile of the general student body. This may be exactly what you were saying, but technically it does not restrict who they can admit. On an individual basis, they can admit whoever they want, as long as the lower academic profile of that kid, or a few kids, doesn't skew the average of the team too far. There are cases where a kid will get into an Ivy school after being rejected by a non-Ivy. But they are definitely restricted in how far they can go in that direction.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

Do you think those grade standards are unusual? If so, why do you think that?

Of course, that is entirely beside the point. What makes a tougher school tougher isn't the number that you arbitrarily assign to a given letter, it is how tough it is to do whatever needs to be done to earn that letter. (In other words, percentage means absolutely nothing whatsoever, at any school anywhere in the country. What is important is the amount of work, and the difficulty of that work, required to get an A. And a percentage (percentage of what, I wonder) means nothing.)

This might be a case of playing chess with a pigeon. I was going to make the same point but meh....

 

[duper]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

These boards have a search engine, and many threads. I trust you can find the post. This particular iteration of the "not one team in the ECAC could finish in the top half of the WCHA" was after Yale beat Minnesota, by someone who posts quite a bit here. Called that one an "anomaly," even though it was Yale's 3rd win against a WCHA team this year. Make that 4, now. The complete lack of basic respect from WCHA homers has been evident on these boards for many, many years. You have it reversed in terms of "butt-hurt." We're enjoying the moment. It's hilarious to see the WCHA-folks actually hang their hats on SCSU.

So in other words, you're full of malarkey. Pretty much what I thought.

Perhaps you have observed a different set of data than me, but I have seen literally no WCHA fans that I would describe as butt-hurt. Meanwhile, I have seen at least five or sic ECAC fans who are working super hard to prove something that makes no difference whatsoever. Given that, as many of you have mentioned, there are MANY more WCHA fans on these boards than there are ECAC fans... I haven't even seen any WCHA fans particularly pulling for St. Cloud, other than, you know, St. Cloud fans.

 

[TimU]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

The thought of Union finding ways to give player scholarships in some fashion is wrong.

I agree. But it's not accurate to suggest that every kid at a scholarship school pays nothing and every kid at Union pays full price. It's not true. And Union can give merit scholarships, which Ivies can't. That's not wrong either. If a kid earns an academic scholarship, then good for him, and Union isn't being dishonest in any way. They're attracting good student athletes.

 

[Gallant Union Goalie 95]

The thought of Union finding ways to give player scholarships in some fashion is wrong. Now it would be easier to be accepted into Union based upon playing hockey, but they can't get a scholarship for playing hockey. If a player is from a challenged economical situation, he would have his situation accessed in comparison to other of similar situations. Scholarships in not for profits are either restricted funds or permanents funds with the interest being restricted. Either way, there are so many regulations set in place by schools and even Generally Accepted Accounting Principals, where they do even have to disclose to (even not publics, in a somewhat disclosure base) FASB.

I only included Union as it is a small private college with very high academic standards. When you're only adding roughly 500 new students every year, the criteria for selection makes it tougher to get in. Looks like st cloud will come through for the wcha, congrats

 

[duper]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

I agree. But it's not accurate to suggest that every kid at a scholarship school pays nothing and every kid at Union pays full price. It's not true. And Union can give merit scholarships, which Ivies can't. That's not wrong either. If a kid earns an academic scholarship, then good for him, and Union isn't being dishonest in any way. They're attracting good student athletes.

Quite a few schools have trouble recruiting for whatever reason. It's part of the game. It's what makes it particularly impressive when a school that has smaller hoops to jump through for recruiting does well. And, as almost every single WCHA fan on this board has said in some form, hats off to those schools for overcoming those hurdles.

Now, just imagine if Army or Air Force could overcome THEIR recruiting hurdles to make the Frozen Four.

 

[Gallant Union Goalie 95]

So in other words, you're full of malarkey. Pretty much what I thought.

Perhaps you have observed a different set of data than me, but I have seen literally no WCHA fans that I would describe as butt-hurt. Meanwhile, I have seen at least five or sic ECAC fans who are working super hard to prove something that makes no difference whatsoever. Given that, as many of you have mentioned, there are MANY more WCHA fans on these boards than there are ECAC fans... I haven't even seen any WCHA fans particularly pulling for St. Cloud, other than, you know, St. Cloud fans.

ECAC fans are true fans of the conference so we even cheer on our conference in the big tourney. Haven't seen any WCHA fans on here supporting st cloud

 

[Gallant Union Goalie 95]

Quite a few schools have trouble recruiting for whatever reason. It's part of the game. It's what makes it particularly impressive when a school that has smaller hoops to jump through for recruiting does well. And, as almost every single WCHA fan on this board has said in some form, hats off to those schools for overcoming those hurdles.

Now, just imagine if Army or Air Force could overcome THEIR recruiting hurdles to make the Frozen Four.

That would be impressive indeed

 

[berbs91]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

Yet no ECAC team has fewer titles than the Mavs...

I looked at the numbers and 16 ECAC representatives have more NCAA wins than the Nebraska-Omaha Mavs.

And only Princeton doesn't have more than them.

Nebraska-Omaha is like Vanderbilt claiming they are a good football team, except with inferior academics.

 

[MavsFan]

Looks like st cloud will come through for the wcha, congrats

As far as I'm concerned, they're no longer a WCHA team (I don't care what patch they have on their jersey.) Any glory they get transfers to the NCHC.

 

[matt]

Re: EZAC??? I think not!!!

So in other words, you're full of malarkey. Pretty much what I thought.

Perhaps you have observed a different set of data than me, but I have seen literally no WCHA fans that I would describe as butt-hurt. Meanwhile, I have seen at least five or sic ECAC fans who are working super hard to prove something that makes no difference whatsoever. Given that, as many of you have mentioned, there are MANY more WCHA fans on these boards than there are ECAC fans... I haven't even seen any WCHA fans particularly pulling for St. Cloud, other than, you know, St. Cloud fans.

Oh, put a sock in it. You're too lazy to look up the threads, is all. And you're a liar to boot, since that "what I thought" is exactly what you just said were were not thinking.
The WCHA folks on these boards tend to be an obnoxious lot.

Oh, and I will find the post for you, since you too idiotic to use a search engine. I'll find more than a few. It's the rule, not the exception.