Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Well, if you live in WCHA territory and the FF is in Boston/Philly, is that distance any different from WCHA->Tampa?

On one level, you're correct. Board a plane at MSP or MKE? Flying to Tampa isn't much more burdensome than Boston or Philly. But that's not much comfort to those who must drive, if they are to attend at all.

When the tournament is held within college hockey's natural area, a substantial number of fans will be able to drive. As long as the tournament moves back and forth between East and West, everyone can attend at least some of the time. And those who drive are a great help in filling the arena when they are available.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm one the stalwarts who will follow the tournamant wherever it goes. And personally, I would be thrilled to go back to Tampa. I'm just asking that we not forget those who were closed out by this year's location, and that drive-friendly locations be chosen "most" of the time.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Please don't get me wrong. I'm one the stalwarts who will follow the tournamant wherever it goes. And personally, I would be thrilled to go back to Tampa. I'm just asking that we not forget those who were closed out by this year's location, and that drive-friendly locations be chosen "most" of the time.

I agree in theory, but drive-friendly locations that sell aren't exactly easy to find (let's say OH, IN, MI for instance). Boston for instance is a drive for anyone west of the Mississippi (and vice-versa) and if I'm willing to drive 20 hours another 4-6 probably isn't going to break my willingness to go. Mpls to Boston is listed as 22 hours from one site while Mpls to Tampa is 25 and Boston to Tampa isn't much better. Heck Boston to Nashville is still 18 from the same site.

I don't think Tampa should become more regular than any other site but wouldn't balk at every 7-10 years.

 

[BobF]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Just Back from Tampa and we join the chorus that give a big thumbs up to Tampa! Arena is excellent, and proximity to Channelside bars and hotels, many stayed outside the city, which was also excellent. Beach time mixed with hockey is not so bad. Did not notice any ice issues and they certainly were not squirting water bottles in holes on the ice. Can't compare to what happened in Cincy or Detroit. It is an NHL rink and if the playoffs started tomorrow for Tampa the arena would be prepared.

Also thought the area where the fanfest was held was organized and nice. Thought it would be strange going in shorts and sandals, but you know what it was actually comfortable. And as far as not seeing regulars, saw the regulars that I always see from the east. Not sure how flights from the midwest are more expensive to Tampa or Orlando than they are to Boston?? Flights to MSP from Boston are certainly more expensive than the 2 Florida cities I mentioned and nobody on the east coast complains. And everyone of the locals and those I spoke with in Tampa all were positive and surprised at the negative posts about this pick. Many also combined vacations, so instead of 4 days it became a week in the Florida sunshine, for us it was 10 days, how awful! ;-)

I'll take Tampa over St. Louis, Albany or Milwaukee again. Have been to 15 or so and like others my wife and I enjoy seeing cities we would not normally see and taking advantage of the surroundings. When Maine has not been involved DC has still been our favorite, but this was a close second!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

I agree in theory, but drive-friendly locations that sell aren't exactly easy to find (let's say OH, IN, MI for instance). Boston for instance is a drive for anyone west of the Mississippi (and vice-versa) and if I'm willing to drive 20 hours another 4-6 probably isn't going to break my willingness to go. Mpls to Boston is listed as 22 hours from one site while Mpls to Tampa is 25 and Boston to Tampa isn't much better. Heck Boston to Nashville is still 18 from the same site.

Looks like we're defining "drive friendly" differently. I'm referring to one day of driving, without much overtime. Let's say that anything within 8-10 hours qualifies as a day's drive. From my home base in Columbus, that includes Albany, Buffalo, Columbus as host, Milwaukee, St. Louis, DC, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Nashville, if chosen, would qualify. Providence, St. Paul (twice) and Boston were outside of the radius, but driving was possible if necessary. Only Denver and Tampa truly required flights. So fans from "OH, IN & MI" have no grievance whatsoever in this regard.

Obviously things look a little different from the Twin Cities. But the picture is still favorable, I'd submit. In addition to hosting twice since 2000, both Milwaukee and St. Louis were driveable. Detroit and Columbus would be outside the prescribed radius, but would be doable with a little extra effort. So someone from the Twin Cities should have been able to drive to about half of the tournaments over the last dozen years if that was necessary.

New England has been short-changed in this regard, but the selections of Pitt and Philly help balance the ledger a bit. The fact that those locations aren't commutable from New England draws objections, but they are doable by car.

I'm guess I'm a little puzzled by your position. On the one hand, you see a shortage of drive-friendly sites. But on the other hand, 20-26 hours in the car doesn't "break your willingness to go." While I certainly commend your commitment and endurance, I think my standards better reflect the FF fanbase as a whole.

By no means am I opposed to holding the FF outside college hockey's natural area. St. Louis proved that it can be done well, and Tampa reconfirmed that. We should, however, be very careful about increasing the percentage of distant sites. It's obvious that everyone who went to Tampa had a great time, but the remote locations do have a downside. I'm thinking the current balance may be about right.

I don't think Tampa should become more regular than any other site but wouldn't balk at every 7-10 years.

We may be disagreeing on some of the details, but I agree completely with your conclusion!

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

I'm guess I'm a little puzzled by your position. On the one hand, you see a shortage of drive-friendly sites. But on the other hand, 20-26 hours in the car doesn't "break your willingness to go." While I certainly commend your commitment and endurance, I think my standards better reflect the FF fanbase as a whole.

My main point (if perhaps poorly communicated) is that outside a handful of sites near say OH, MI and IN most are going to be less than drive-friendly (by your defintion) for a significant portion of the fans and imho it doesn't make much sense to hold a predominant number of FF's in said drive-friendly locales. I know you mentioned a few others in the general vicinity, but if they're closer to MPLS/WI they're further from the east and if they're closer to BOS/NY the same goes in the other direction. I just don't think it's possible to make the FF that drive-friendly more often than not for everyone given the limitation of not only viable venues but desirable. I mean Columbus would be about as good as it gets (save for fans west of MN) any given year but it needs to rotate.

 

[CLS]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

...So someone from the Twin Cities should have been able to drive to about half of the tournaments over the last dozen years if that was necessary.

New England has been short-changed in this regard [being able to drive to tournament], but the selections of Pitt and Philly help balance the ledger a bit. The fact that those locations aren't commutable from New England draws objections, but they are doable by car.

...

But let's be clear that it isn't the NCAA that's been shortchanging the good residents of New England. If I had reason to believe that the TD (Boston) Garden submitted a credible bid and the NCAA chose Tampa instead, I'd feel shortchanged. But I don't, so I don't. The NCAA makes some rather extreme requirements of the host venues, but other NHL rinks seem to be able to adjust, and the XCel Center actively seeks the tournament. I don't think at least submitting a decent bid every ten years is so much to ask. Some people say it's because Boston is a pro sports town, but the TD Garden hosts the Beanpot, the Hockey East Tournament, and the Mass High School Championships.

 

[MavHockey14]

I'm confused - why does the leap year in 2012 make everything later in 2013? FWIW, the late dates next year mean no conflicts with Passover/Easter.

Basically, the first of march was a Tuesday last year. The leap year made it Thursday this year. Thus, the first will be Friday in 2013, and so the first Thursday of March is the seventh. This will push things back as conference tournaments in hockey and the start of the NCAA basketball tourney occur the third Thursday of each march, moving the dates back.

Agreed.

This. It's Easter that moves, not the Frozen Four. Also, I presume that we'll continue to share the same weekend with the Masters.

The Masters Golf Tournament begins Monday, April*8, 2013, and ends Sunday, April*14, 2013.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

If not, the Reds are a short drive away in Cincy.

ps- Anyone know why the Pitt FF is a week later next year? (Apr 11-13)

5 Hours is a short drive? Do you mean Progressive Field in Cleveland? That's about two hours.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Tampa gets a big thumbs up from me. I commuted 1-1/2 hours to the games from Punta Gorda (made an 8 day vacation around the FF) and the arena couldn't be easier to get to. Parking was located right at the bottom of the ramp, one block from the arena, and it took 1 minute to get back on the highway after the games, with no traffic.

Outside the arena: Fan Fest was nice, temperature in the 80's, lot's of folks hanging around outside the arena before and after the games.

Inside the arena: Very nice arena, nice concourse and plenty of food selections. Seats were very comfortable. I liked how during tv timeouts the 'girl' would interview different people in the arena (some from the Lightning organization... that's the only time the organist played, after he was interviewed about the organ). We even learned about the lightning bolts in opposite corners of the arena. Also... that's the first time I have ever seen a dozen people skate out onto the ice during tv t.o. and shovel off the ENTIRE ice surface. That was impressive. The bands were allowed to play regularly with only a minimum of NHL type loudspeaker music. Seemed to me the Tampa Bay Lightning threw in some nice touches to help make the fan experience a pleasurable one.

Overall pluses: Reasonable travel costs from Boston, great weather, great atmosphere, fun in the sun combined with great hockey. I'm going to guess the travel cost from MN were reasonable as well, as the arena was full with Gopher fans on Thursday.

Overall minuses: I don't have one. Easter weekend may have held some folks back, regardless of cost/location.

I would return to another Frozen Four in Tampa any time. Nashville?... sounds like a winner too.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

My main point (if perhaps poorly communicated) is that outside a handful of sites near say OH, MI and IN most are going to be less than drive-friendly (by your defintion) for a significant portion of the fans and imho it doesn't make much sense to hold a predominant number of FF's in said drive-friendly locales...

OK, I see where you're coming from now. I did misunderstand your first try.

I certainly agree that the CCHA schools should not permanently host the Frozen Four, central location or not. And even in the CCHA states, there's simply no site that would make all of the drivers happy all of the time.

My point is that most Frozen Fours should be located in areas where a meaningful portion of the fans can drive. Rotating the site annually means there will be lots of turnover among the group of drivers. But as long as everyone can drive some of the time, there's no unfairness. Want to go every year? Drive when you can, fly when you must. If you're at least within shouting distance of 50/50, there's no unfairness. Flying is out of the question? Attend when you can, watch on TV when you must. Again, as long at it comes out around 50/50 ... well, you get the idea.

My concern is that if we overdo it on the remote sunbelt sites, those who must drive will be excluded most of the time. Not only is that wrong, it damages the event. We need those people in the stands whenever possible.

But let's be clear that it isn't the NCAA that's been shortchanging the good residents of New England. If I had reason to believe that the TD (Boston) Garden submitted a credible bid and the NCAA chose Tampa instead, I'd feel shortchanged. But I don't, so I don't. The NCAA makes some rather extreme requirements of the host venues, but other NHL rinks seem to be able to adjust, and the XCel Center actively seeks the tournament. I don't think at least submitting a decent bid every ten years is so much to ask. Some people say it's because Boston is a pro sports town, but the TD Garden hosts the Beanpot, the Hockey East Tournament, and the Mass High School Championships.

Well put, and I agree. Given the lack of cooperation from the TD Garden, the NCAA is actually doing what it can for FF fans from NE. DC/Pitt/Philly in a six year span isn't a bad result for fans from the northeast -- although it must be admitted that many don't see it that way.

 

[davyd83]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Given the lack of cooperation from the TD Garden, the NCAA is actually doing what it can for FF fans from NE. DC/Pitt/Philly in a six year span isn't a bad result for fans from the northeast -- although it must be admitted that many don't see it that way.

Don't forget that over a five year stretch at the start of the decade that only one was west of Buffalo. Over time it seems to even out. If the Bruins and TD can't cooperate and none of the New York area venues elect to participate, there isn't much in New England. I have no sympathy for the Nor'easters feeling slighted if the FF isn't within 2 hours of their homes. We've only got two opponents within six hours.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Well put, and I agree. Given the lack of cooperation from the TD Garden, the NCAA is actually doing what it can for FF fans from NE. DC/Pitt/Philly in a six year span isn't a bad result for fans from the northeast -- although it must be admitted that many don't see it that way.

But Boston is the Center of the Universe!!!!1!! -- some random MASS.HOLE!!!

 

[brassbonanza]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Well put, and I agree. Given the lack of cooperation from the TD Garden, the NCAA is actually doing what it can for FF fans from NE. DC/Pitt/Philly in a six year span isn't a bad result for fans from the northeast -- although it must be admitted that many don't see it that way.

I think the anger among New Englanders is more that with Boston being such a huge center for the sport, that the Bruins/Garden don't submit a quality bid is ridiculous. Everyone knows that after 10+ years, if they submit a serious bid and are willing to work with the NCAA and not have a stick up their ***, they're going to get the dam event. DC/Pitt are certainly helpful, but they're by no means "close". DC is 450 miles, and Pitt is 575 or so. Doable drives, but by no means easy and short. St. Louis was closer for Minnesota fans than Pitt is for Boston fans. It's just frustrating that the organization doesn't seem to care to submit a serious bid that a lot of people in the area would appreciate, especially with the resurgence of the Bruins.

 

[D3 Phan]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Count me as one who stayed away due to the distance to Tampa. I've been to seven FF's, After seeing sell out's become routine, it appears some other fans
did the same. Bring it back to Milwaukee, St Louis, Columbus, Denver, and give Omaha a try. Why make everyone travel at least 1000 miles?

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

I think the anger among New Englanders is more that with Boston being such a huge center for the sport, that the Bruins/Garden don't submit a quality bid is ridiculous. Everyone knows that after 10+ years, if they submit a serious bid and are willing to work with the NCAA and not have a stick up their ***, they're going to get the dam event. DC/Pitt are certainly helpful, but they're by no means "close". DC is 450 miles, and Pitt is 575 or so. Doable drives, but by no means easy and short. St. Louis was closer for Minnesota fans than Pitt is for Boston fans. It's just frustrating that the organization doesn't seem to care to submit a serious bid that a lot of people in the area would appreciate, especially with the resurgence of the Bruins.

You don't suppose that the roads and traffic in Boston have any bearing upon its selection as a FF site? Driving in Boston might not keep first-time visitors away, but after the first time . . .

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

You don't suppose that the roads and traffic in Boston have any bearing upon its selection as a FF site? Driving in Boston might not keep first-time visitors away, but after the first time . . .

Can't agree. I drove to Boston in '98 and flew in '04. In each case the degree of difficulty was a little higher than usual, but nothing I experienced would deter me from going back.

Getting back to Tampa...

... I thought the city of Tampa did a great job and the facility was superb. Plenty to do around here, nice weather, easy access to roads, bars and restaurants nearby within walking distance from the Forum. I never saw such signage for a Frozen Four like this. I would have no problems coming back and they host again.

I'd be interested to hear more about this. We were aware of the team-specific HQs, but didn't visit any of them. In hindsight, maybe we should have taken some time to check out each one.

But other than the Team HQs, where did people go? I didn't get the sense that there was "more than usual" right by the arena. But maybe we just didn't know where to go. I should mention that the Hattrick looked great, but unfortunately we didn't find it until late Saturday evening.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Count me as one who stayed away due to the distance to Tampa. I've been to seven FF's, After seeing sell out's become routine, it appears some other fans
did the same. Bring it back to Milwaukee, St Louis, Columbus, Denver, and give Omaha a try. Why make everyone travel at least 1000 miles?

You missed out...that was one of the best times I have had period. I would rather go back to Tampa than ever have to suffer through another FF in Columbus let alone go to Milwaukee.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Loved it. My only gripe is about the arena, and that was just that you can't walk around the entire concourse on the second level. Pretty small complaint. That's how much I enjoyed the week.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

You missed out...that was one of the best times I have had period. I would rather go back to Tampa than ever have to suffer through another FF in Columbus let alone go to Milwaukee.

Bingo.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Evaluating Frozen Four host Tampa Bay

Since we're naming names, I'd reverse those last two. I had a pretty good time in Milwaukee. I don't remember the name of the place where I stayed, but it was an old place by the water - pretty cool. Found some decent bars, and had a good time at a Brewers game on the off-day. Columbus on the other hand . . .