FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Or dump it altogether. The system doesn't work at all.
Or dump it altogether. The system doesn't work at all.
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Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
- Thread starter joecct
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
The higher rates don't offset the cost. So, you're rewarding bad behavior just in a different way. You really want to get the costs down then you need to start offering some real consequences for peoples actions. Good luck.
The higher rates don't offset the cost. So, you're rewarding bad behavior just in a different way. You really want to get the costs down then you need to start offering some real consequences for peoples actions. Good luck.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Good to hear we're on the same wavelength. Why would we even need this sort of a system at all? The most effective way to offer real consequences for people's actions is to eliminate the safety net. This is why low-risk healthy people don't buy this sort of a product.
Good to hear we're on the same wavelength. Why would we even need this sort of a system at all? The most effective way to offer real consequences for people's actions is to eliminate the safety net. This is why low-risk healthy people don't buy this sort of a product.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Barry still holds 500 million shares of GM that he paid for with our money as a way of buying the loyalty of his pet jack-booted UAW thugs and prolonging the bubble in order to make the coming crash all the more painful. He would have to sell them at $53 to get our money back; they are worth 20 bucks. Everybody wish harder for hope and change. Or just bend way over and pull Barry's lever again.
Barry still holds 500 million shares of GM that he paid for with our money as a way of buying the loyalty of his pet jack-booted UAW thugs and prolonging the bubble in order to make the coming crash all the more painful. He would have to sell them at $53 to get our money back; they are worth 20 bucks. Everybody wish harder for hope and change. Or just bend way over and pull Barry's lever again.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Well-played, George Will. Quoting Martin Luther King Jr.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...idential_D7dg6AXY9eChfpPqeQjyzN#ixzz23WuHXQ12
Well-played, George Will. Quoting Martin Luther King Jr.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...idential_D7dg6AXY9eChfpPqeQjyzN#ixzz23WuHXQ12
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Should have let them go under. At least one poster has stated that every dollar of the bank bailout was worth it but we should have let GM go under. Who am I to argue? That's classic trickle down. Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney are both smart guys and that's exactly what they're proposing.
Barry still holds 500 million shares of GM that he paid for with our money as a way of buying the loyalty of his pet jack-booted UAW thugs and prolonging the bubble in order to make the coming crash all the more painful. He would have to sell them at $53 to get our money back; they are worth 20 bucks. Everybody wish harder for hope and change. Or just bend way over and pull Barry's lever again.
Should have let them go under. At least one poster has stated that every dollar of the bank bailout was worth it but we should have let GM go under. Who am I to argue? That's classic trickle down. Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney are both smart guys and that's exactly what they're proposing.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
And especially considering there's no dividend, it's straight buy-sell to make some bank. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM&ql=1
Oh, but it's probably still Wall Street's or speculator's faults. Especially when since you're dealing with an auction-style trade, of course momentum can drive prices up or down.
Barry still holds 500 million shares of GM that he paid for with our money as a way of buying the loyalty of his pet jack-booted UAW thugs and prolonging the bubble in order to make the coming crash all the more painful. He would have to sell them at $53 to get our money back; they are worth 20 bucks. Everybody wish harder for hope and change. Or just bend way over and pull Barry's lever again.
And especially considering there's no dividend, it's straight buy-sell to make some bank. http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM&ql=1
Oh, but it's probably still Wall Street's or speculator's faults. Especially when since you're dealing with an auction-style trade, of course momentum can drive prices up or down.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
exactly. A normal bankruptcy might have cost O some campaign donations from the fat cats he bailed out, but it would have saved every John Doe taxpayer these extra payments to the union for the next x number of years. Once again it's the few with connections screwing over everyone else who are forced to pay their way.
exactly. A normal bankruptcy might have cost O some campaign donations from the fat cats he bailed out, but it would have saved every John Doe taxpayer these extra payments to the union for the next x number of years. Once again it's the few with connections screwing over everyone else who are forced to pay their way.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Very shortsighted.
What are the tax revenues of all GM employees?
What are the tax revenues of GM?
What are the tax revenues of the employees all the subsidiaries and suppliers of GM?
What are the tax revenues of the subsidiary and supplier companies themselves?
What are the tax revenues of companies and employees of companies in communities of where all the above people spend?
What would the unemployment benefits and public costs of retraining of all GM employees?
What would the unemployment benefits and public costs of retraining all of the employees all the subsidiaries and suppliers of GM?
What would have been additional costs to the communities of all of these folks being unemployed?
Couple that with the fact that there is no way the country could have dealt with this type of financial and psychological jolt at the peak of the crisis. No way.
So get back once you know the true cost/benefit of saving GM and Chrysler.
Barry still holds 500 million shares of GM that he paid for with our money as a way of buying the loyalty of his pet jack-booted UAW thugs and prolonging the bubble in order to make the coming crash all the more painful. He would have to sell them at $53 to get our money back; they are worth 20 bucks. Everybody wish harder for hope and change. Or just bend way over and pull Barry's lever again.
Very shortsighted.
What are the tax revenues of all GM employees?
What are the tax revenues of GM?
What are the tax revenues of the employees all the subsidiaries and suppliers of GM?
What are the tax revenues of the subsidiary and supplier companies themselves?
What are the tax revenues of companies and employees of companies in communities of where all the above people spend?
What would the unemployment benefits and public costs of retraining of all GM employees?
What would the unemployment benefits and public costs of retraining all of the employees all the subsidiaries and suppliers of GM?
What would have been additional costs to the communities of all of these folks being unemployed?
Couple that with the fact that there is no way the country could have dealt with this type of financial and psychological jolt at the peak of the crisis. No way.
So get back once you know the true cost/benefit of saving GM and Chrysler.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
No, no, no, no.
Bankruptcy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It will trickle down. Don't worry.
No, no, no, no.
Bankruptcy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It will trickle down. Don't worry.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Is "Vedism" real? Sounds more like an isolated mental illness than a growing religious movement.
Is "Vedism" real? Sounds more like an isolated mental illness than a growing religious movement.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Anytime anything goes wrong, Obama is there with the national checkbook promising to help out. Great for the folks that get checks written to them and Obama's reelection chances. Horrible for the nation's finances long term. But, he knows it'll help him get reelected because Americans can't see past the next check someone will write them and they generally don't ask how much they actually deserve to get money out of the nation's coffers.
Anytime anything goes wrong, Obama is there with the national checkbook promising to help out. Great for the folks that get checks written to them and Obama's reelection chances. Horrible for the nation's finances long term. But, he knows it'll help him get reelected because Americans can't see past the next check someone will write them and they generally don't ask how much they actually deserve to get money out of the nation's coffers.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Really? I didn't get all the money back that I lost in 2008-2009. Where's my check?
Really? I didn't get all the money back that I lost in 2008-2009. Where's my check?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Then again, most "Christians" claiming their religious liberty to not honor the law don't sound much like followers of Christ, either.
Vedism is real, but this guy doesn't sound a lot like a scholar of ancient Indian Vedic philosophical texts.
Then again, most "Christians" claiming their religious liberty to not honor the law don't sound much like followers of Christ, either.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
I can't begin to pretend all those things are calculable. But while they make compelling talking points (put forth by the few who actually benefited from the taxpayer bailouts), they miss a lot of things that should be given, just by common sense. For example why is it always assumed that if GM restructured under bankruptcy that 100% of the employees of the original company would never find another job? Why is it always taken as a given that every supplier of GM products would also lose every other customer and also go out of business and that 100% of their employees would also be unqualified to go work anywhere else? Why is it a public cost to "retrain" them for another job? Could it be that the market doesn't support what they were doing? And why is it assumed that, given that the employees of GM and all its suppliers are apparently unqualified to ever work anywhere else (which is really a bizarre claim if you stop to think about it), why is it a "cost to the communities" to pay their unemployment benefits? We're all in that boat.
These are all great talking points, but they have no basis in the realities of what happens under bankruptcy. The reality is that the effects of the bailout are many times worse economically, fiscally, morally, and politically than the worst that could have happened under bankruptcy. Assuming you favor a democratic process of government. There are very few rich people in government and union organizing that benefited from the taxpayer bailouts. The rest of us will be paying that bill for years to come.
Here's hoping it never happens again. I'm not optimistic.
I can't begin to pretend all those things are calculable. But while they make compelling talking points (put forth by the few who actually benefited from the taxpayer bailouts), they miss a lot of things that should be given, just by common sense. For example why is it always assumed that if GM restructured under bankruptcy that 100% of the employees of the original company would never find another job? Why is it always taken as a given that every supplier of GM products would also lose every other customer and also go out of business and that 100% of their employees would also be unqualified to go work anywhere else? Why is it a public cost to "retrain" them for another job? Could it be that the market doesn't support what they were doing? And why is it assumed that, given that the employees of GM and all its suppliers are apparently unqualified to ever work anywhere else (which is really a bizarre claim if you stop to think about it), why is it a "cost to the communities" to pay their unemployment benefits? We're all in that boat.
These are all great talking points, but they have no basis in the realities of what happens under bankruptcy. The reality is that the effects of the bailout are many times worse economically, fiscally, morally, and politically than the worst that could have happened under bankruptcy. Assuming you favor a democratic process of government. There are very few rich people in government and union organizing that benefited from the taxpayer bailouts. The rest of us will be paying that bill for years to come.
Here's hoping it never happens again. I'm not optimistic.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Don't hold your breath. You'd have to go break a bunch of kneecaps at UAW headquarters to ever see a dime of that money again.
Don't hold your breath. You'd have to go break a bunch of kneecaps at UAW headquarters to ever see a dime of that money again.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
I agree that if the story had happened to be about a Christian then this would be true. Most "Christians" give Christians a bad name. It's just the way it is, but also as prophesied.
I agree that if the story had happened to be about a Christian then this would be true. Most "Christians" give Christians a bad name. It's just the way it is, but also as prophesied.
Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!
Your check is in the mail.
However, if you send me your social security number and date of birth, I'll help track it down for you.
Your check is in the mail.
However, if you send me your social security number and date of birth, I'll help track it down for you.
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