Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

That world ends no matter which side is in power. The powers that decide elections now are international capital, and America is just another leveraged buyout opportunity. That's the legacy of the last thirty years.

I guess I'd like to try to slow down the implosion a little if possible. If I believe someone would restore fiscal sanity to our nation, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat, whether Rep, Dem, Libertarian, or whatever. When this nation goes bankrupt, all the issues that have been squabbled over will seem mighty petty, as there won't be money to pay for much of anything.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Did you say this when the last guy started two unnecessary wars that blew a hole the size of Montana into the deficit? How about NCLB? Or the NON-FUNDED Medicare Prescription entitlement. You can argue the particulars but at least Obamacare was funded. Maybe its not funded to your satisfaction. Maybe you believe the actual costs use to calculate the funding were lies. Either way they tried to fund it. The Republican passed agenda didn't fund anything that they passed.

See the difference?

I doubt you do. But it's there and it's huge.

I said it about all of the above. The wars, prescription drug benefit, Obamacare and all (not sure about the NCLB reference). I've railed on Bush a lot for his lack of fiscal responsibility, and now Obama's been getting it as he sits in the seat of responsibility. I'd expect someone like you who has been around awhile to be paying attention. Whereas, you decry Republican fiscal irresponsibility, but are not nearly as concerned with Democratic fiscal irresponsibility. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I said it about all of the above. The wars, prescription drug benefit, Obamacare and all (not sure about the NCLB reference). I've railed on Bush a lot for his lack of fiscal responsibility, and now Obama's been getting it as he sits in the seat of responsibility. I'd expect someone like you who has been around awhile to be paying attention. Whereas, you decry Republican fiscal irresponsibility, but are not nearly as concerned with Democratic fiscal irresponsibility. Pot, meet kettle.

So, you don't see the difference?

Obamacare was funded. You can disagree with the numbers or how but it was. None of the Bush agenda was funded, including his tax cuts.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Part of the big spin is to make the owner of Chick-Fil-A sound like a hater, which is nowhere near what he said or is from what I've read. You know, the often successful technique of demonizing the opponent so no matter what's done to him/them it's ok because they are so bad. But, acknowledging that such spinning is going on undermines its effectiveness, so I understand your avoidance. It's entirely predictable that you accuse me of thinking I know everything, but all the variety of folks who argue the other way get a free pass from you. Did you use the word hypocrisy?

When did I give anyone a free pass? I said both sides (as in the Kiss In People and the Gay Marriage Protest People) were stupid and were using what one man said to try and get on TV and that none of this had anything to do with the issue at hand. Here is an idea, before you go acting all self-righteous and then put yourself up on the cross why dont you actually read what other people write...you might look like less of an idiot that way. As it is, you did exactly what you accuse everyone else of, and you assumed (wrongly as per usual) that you knew what I was thinking or how I felt on an issue. Congrats, you are now Old Pio Jr.

Keep trying though Bob...maybe if you keep moving the goal posts your inane verbal diarrhea might just get back on topic

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Obamacare is in some ways "the worst of both worlds" for each party -- the people who really win BIG are the insurance companies.

you say that with no supporting evidence.....however you are probably wrong here. The law contains a provision that says that in any given year that claims are less than 80% of premium then the insurance company has to write a refund check, which seems innocuous on the surface until you realize that there is no "rolling average" provision.....in other words, if claims exceed 100% of premium in any given year, the insurance company takes the loss yet cannot offset that loss against preceding or subsequent year.


also, given the highly-publicized way in which Roberts' removed the "penalty" and replaced it with a "tax," he made it very clear that the "tax" is nowhere near high enough to work as an inducment to get people to buy insurance. So the insurance companies still have to cover pre-existing conditions, they cannot use a good year to offset a bad year, and they aren't going to have the increase in covered lives they need to spread the risk sufficiently.


Nope, your assertion fails to persuade. No one wins. We all lose big-time.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I suggest that someday you take off your partisan blinders. Hyperpartisanship like yours is a big contributor to our nation's problems.

Wow...

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Part of the big spin is to make the owner of Chick-Fil-A sound like a hater

The guy donates money to organizations dedicated to denying people's civil rights. That really doesn't need any spin.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I guess I'd like to try to slow down the implosion a little if possible. If I believe someone would restore fiscal sanity to our nation, I'd vote for them in a heartbeat, whether Rep, Dem, Libertarian, or whatever. When this nation goes bankrupt, all the issues that have been squabbled over will seem mighty petty, as there won't be money to pay for much of anything.

We both agree on this. The only question is which side one feels will be a better steward of the economy. Both sides spend a ton on things I don't want, so that's a wash. The GOP's darker side, the Neocons, have conducted ruinously expensive foreign policy; the Dems were wusses not to oppose it from the start, but at least they wound it down as soon as it was politically possible. And the Dems at least attempt to pay as they go through taxation. The GOP just borrows forever.

If somebody has a better plan out there I'm all ears. At the moment, Obama's is the best we have.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Nope, your assertion fails to persuade. No one wins. We all lose big-time.

Ummm....what about the people who were denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition?


Kep, what was "politically brilliant" 30 years ago is going to look stupid in the event of a loss this year because that will be 4 out of the last 6 elections, something that hasn't happened since LBJ was re-elected. I can't think of anytime in memory where Congress sets the agenda over the President (perhaps Watergate when Nixon got bounced but that was before my time). Doesn't do a lot of good to try and gum the works when universal healthcare and regulation are getting rammed down your party's throat.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

We both agree on this. The only question is which side one feels will be a better steward of the economy. Both sides spend a ton on things I don't want, so that's a wash. The GOP's darker side, the Neocons, have conducted ruinously expensive foreign policy; the Dems were wusses not to oppose it from the start, but at least they wound it down as soon as it was politically possible. And the Dems at least attempt to pay as they go through taxation. The GOP just borrows forever.

If somebody has a better plan out there I'm all ears. At the moment, Obama's is the best we have.

I got a plan. Send the Baby Boomers the bill for the money they owe us.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Wow...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ummm....what about the people who were denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition?

you mean the people who can already buy insurance through their state's high-risk pool? there are better ways to handle their situation than PPACA does, that's for sure!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

We both agree on this. The only question is which side one feels will be a better steward of the economy. Both sides spend a ton on things I don't want, so that's a wash. The GOP's darker side, the Neocons, have conducted ruinously expensive foreign policy; the Dems were wusses not to oppose it from the start, but at least they wound it down as soon as it was politically possible. And the Dems at least attempt to pay as they go through taxation. The GOP just borrows forever.

If somebody has a better plan out there I'm all ears. At the moment, Obama's is the best we have.

He of the $1.2 trillion budget deficit for the most recent year. You can't be serious. At least the Republicans have rumblings about fiscal responsibility with people like Jeff Flake and the Tea Partiers. I can't think of a single Democrat that one could remotely associate the phrase "fiscal conservative" with.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

what was "politically brilliant" 30 years ago is going to look stupid in the event of a loss this year because that will be 4 out of the last 6 elections, something that hasn't happened since LBJ was re-elected.

5 out of 6, were it not for brotherly love.

It doesn't matter how many elections you win, though, if the other side has planted land mines in the aisle so that anybody who crosses gets his legs blown off.

I don't see how your prediction of Obama getting more liberal policies through upon re-election comes to pass, unless you think that somehow the Democrats will take back the House and either 60 seats in the Senate or enact cloture reform. I just don't see the mechanics of it happening -- the rump of the GOP actually has proven its point that it can hold the entire country hostage. The Federalist Papers say that's very unlikely, but not impossible. I guess we should be grateful that we had a 220 year run until a minority finally had all the right tumblers fall in place to make it happen, but it has happened and absent some sort of huge governmental reform like we saw during the Progressive Era, there's no way out.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

5 out of 6, were it not for brotherly love.

It doesn't matter how many elections you win, though, if the other side has planted land mines in the aisle so that anybody who crosses gets his legs blown off.

I don't see how your prediction of Obama getting more liberal policies through upon re-election comes to pass, unless you think that somehow the Democrats will take back the House and either 60 seats in the Senate or enact cloture reform. I just don't see the mechanics of it happening -- the rump of the GOP actually has proven its point that it can hold the entire country hostage. The Federalist Papers say that's very unlikely, but not impossible. I guess we should be grateful that we had a 220 year run until a minority finally had all the right tumblers fall in place to make it happen, but it has happened and absent some sort of huge governmental reform like we saw during the Progressive Era, there's no way out.

Kep I didn't say anything about Obama getting more liberal policies through the Congress. He already accomplished that. I'm really not sure what more liberals are looking for. All he need do is keep implementing the liberal policies he's already passed into law but which need no further legislative action. On taxes he can sit on his hands and we revert back to 90's levels which we should have done all along. Also military gets reduced which also needs to happen. This goes into effect automatically. Again, nothing for The Boner and Itch McConnell to do about it.

As gay marriage is in the hands of the court, the only liberal priority I see out there that needs Congressional action to resolve is immigration. If the GOP gets slaughtered in the Hispanic vote the Karl Rove's of the world who has tremendous influence now due to his Super PAC are going to start pushing the fundies to make a deal. Alternative is to keep losing elections. Either one works for me!

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

The guy donates money to organizations dedicated to denying people's civil rights. That really doesn't need any spin.

So the "right" to marry a yak is enshrined in our laws now? Who knew?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Then all that's happened is center-right is the new "liberal."

Certainly Obama (and the 2006 Congress) arrested the insane rush towards the far right that occurred in the prior years, but that rush put us way, way out on the rightmost limb. I see Obama as what Clinton was -- a way to stop the bleeding. But for a real revival of the country's basic values we will need somebody less of a fullback and more willing to throw the ball. Obama's fine, the country really needed a breather after the hell of 2001-2005. But to start fixing all the damage since 1981 there has to be a true liberal coming after him, as well as a responsible judiciary to stand up to the combined fists of big money, big military, and big cross.

This is a start, yes, but we're still way out of balance, in an environment where a pin dropping in Athens can send us toppling back into that radical right abyss.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I got a plan. Send the Baby Boomers the bill for the money they owe us.

Deal. You refund to us all the money we spent building and paying for an educational system that left you so ignorant, despite our best efforts and investments.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Remember the Clinton impeachment? Same thing: when they lose, they try to overturn the election by some other means.

At some point either (1) their own supporters are going to have to get sick of that, stop rationalizing it and demand the GOP grows up, or (2) they're going to have to lose so much support that the national party itself (well, their donors) decides to go another way. Otherwise there's no incentive for them to change. When they win elections they get their goodies, and when they lose elections they get to sabotage the country and then campaign on the other side "not getting things done." It may be morally reprehensible, but it's politically brilliant.

Along with continuing to cry about Willie Horton all these years later, another durable myth is "overturning the election" if the draft dodger had been removed from office. You have to know that's not true. If the pardoner-in-chief had been sent back to Arkansas, Al Gore would have become president, not Bob Dole. Al Gore, as I'm sure you know (since you know everything) is also the one who brought up Willie Horton in the first place. But the libstains have given him a pass. Imagine that.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So the "right" to marry a yak is enshrined in our laws now? Who knew?

Activist liberal judges. And everbody smart.