Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

In other news, the tea party continues to make major inroads into the GOP. Money quote: "The problem is that we try to work together too much rather than stand for our convictions."

Look out GOP...at best you stand to encounter serious infighting/immobilization...and at worst, full-stop alienation from middle America just at a time when the boomers are replaced by minorities.

.................

The House last year became the spiritual home of the Tea Party, which helped elect dozens in the 2010 Republican landslide. Success in the Senate was limited. In 2013, the Senate may become the Tea Party's cathedral.

This year, Tea Party activists are winning Republican Senate primaries and are favored to win seats in the fall. They include Ted Cruz in Texas, Deb Fischer in Nebraska and Richard Mourdock in Indiana. Primaries over the next 10 days in Missouri and Wisconsin could catapult others.

Cruz, a former law clerk to the late Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist, handily defeated the Texas lieutenant governor last week. He's considered a virtual shoo-in in the general election.

Fischer, who won an upset victory against a more established candidate, has been embraced by the Tea Party, as has Mourdock who knocked off six-term Republican Senator Richard Lugar in Indiana. Facing tough Democratic opponents, they are favored in states that are decidedly Republican.

They all are hard-line conservatives. Take Mourdock: He has proposed spending cuts of $7.6 trillion over a decade, or more than double the amount recommended by the Bowles-Simpson deficit commission. As for bipartisanship, he says, "The problem is that we try to work together too much rather than stand for our convictions."

If all these Tea Party-backed Republicans win in November, it means Mitch McConnell, the current Republican Senate leader, will be in the majority. From day one, however, the Kentucky senator will be looking over his shoulder. The real power may be South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint, who stood up and supported a number of these Tea Party candidates in the 2010 elections.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-05/tea-party-sets-its-sights-on-the-senate.html

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

People who identify what they want as what God wants don't compromise.

That's why separation of church and state is the sine qua non of effective democratic government.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

People who identify what they want as what God wants don't compromise.

That's why separation of church and state is the sine qua non of effective democratic government.

True that some people identify what they want as what God wants. Not that God doesn't want certain things, which is hopefully what His followers want. And what God wants doesn't change, at least if you are talking the generally accepted concept of what the Christian God is like. Which is a challenge for people, as individuals and societies often change what they want from moment to moment or over longer time frames.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

The Kiss In was as stupid as the people who went to Chick Fil-A to protest gay marriage.

My eating a Chick-Fil-A sandwich wasn't to protest gay marriage. It was to support freedom of speech. But, such nuance is lost on most sheeple who just repeat whatever popular slogan they hear from the liberal media.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

My eating a Chick-Fil-A sandwich wasn't to protest gay marriage. It was to support freedom of speech. But, such nuance is lost on most sheeple who just repeat whatever popular slogan they hear from the liberal media.

Except of course that we made just that distinction below.

But you just keep on telling us what we think and why.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Nate Silver has got Obama's lead increasing. His estimates have Obama at 72%, which is a high water mark for the president. He's got Obama winning over 300 EV.

Some may be skeptical of his forecasts...but as wiki puts it:

Silver's final 2008 presidential election forecast accurately predicted the winner of 49 of the 50 states as well as the District of Columbia (missing only the prediction for Indiana). As his model predicted, the races in Missouri and North Carolina were particularly close. He also correctly predicted the winners of every U.S. Senate race.

Not one to worship Nate Silver but he and others are starting to push back on the stupid analysis that this is a toss up race at this point in time, which obviously isn't definitive as we're not holding the election today. Mittens problem is clear - he needs an electoral college royal flush right now. I love how North Carolina where Romney is up .1% in aggregate polling is Lean GOP, but Ohio, Virginia, New Hampshire, Colorado, Nevada, and Iowa, all of which Obama has had leads of various sizes in are tossups. Ooookaaayy. Post Dem convention (remember they go last) I'll take a look at the #'s in these states. If they still aren't moving in Romney's direction all the SuperPac spending in the world isn't going to save him.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

True that some people identify what they want as what God wants. Not that God doesn't want certain things, which is hopefully what His followers want. And what God wants doesn't change, at least if you are talking the generally accepted concept of what the Christian God is like. Which is a challenge for people, as individuals and societies often change what they want from moment to moment or over longer time frames.

Now throw in that Gods are created by people and societies to reflect their needs at the time, and that most people never interact with Gods at all but with institutions built around those Gods and reflecting first those institutional founders' wants, and then inevitably the bureaucratic wants of the institutions themselves. It's an interesting dance: man, culture, and history. As long as we keep in mind the complexity and don't privilege anybody's wants as "divine," we can still compromise. The moment we start projecting what we want as "the sole good," we're no longer useful in a political realm. And even that would be fine, if the instinct was to retreat into a monastic purity. But too often people who think like that want to impose their wants on everybody, and that always ends in tears.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Not one to worship Nate Silver but he and others are starting to push back on the stupid analysis that this is a toss up race at this point in time, which obviously isn't definitive as we're not holding the election today. Mittens problem is clear - he needs an electoral college royal flush right now.

One thing, though. The cards analogy is false because it implies independence between "cards" (states), whereas in the election there is strong dependence between movement in one state and others. The better analogy is an archipelago and choppy waters. Mitt needs waves to engulf many islands that are currently dry. The odds of all the waves hitting at once are low, however there are also tides. What Mitt really needs is a rising tide.

The election won't be decided by differences between the purple states, but by those things they have in common: unemployment rates, consumer confidence, and which party's base is more enthusiastic.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Except of course that we made just that distinction below.

But you just keep on telling us what we think and why.

Ah, you know why I did something, but I don't. Got it. Tell me other things I don't know about myself. It truly is scary how you and others are ok with people being attacked as long as it's not people on your side of issues.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Now throw in that Gods are created by people and societies to reflect their needs at the time, and that most people never interact with Gods at all but with institutions built around those Gods and reflecting first those institutional founders' wants, and then inevitably the bureaucratic wants of the institutions themselves. It's an interesting dance: man, culture, and history. As long as we keep in mind the complexity and don't privilege anybody's wants as "divine," we can still compromise. The moment we start projecting what we want as "the sole good," we're no longer useful in a political realm. And even that would be fine, if the instinct was to retreat into a monastic purity. But too often people who think like that want to impose their wants on everybody, and that always ends in tears.

That's a reasonable way of thinking if one believes that God(s) is/are just peoples' fictional creations. On the other hand, if God(s) isn't/aren't fictional creations, it's a whole different ballgame. I understand that you think the former.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Ah, you know why I did something, but I don't. Got it. Tell me other things I don't know about myself. It truly is scary how you and others are ok with people being attacked as long as it's not people on your side of issues.

Non-sequitor for the win.

Who am I supposed to be "in favor of being attacked"? I would say nobody, but you seem to know what's in my head so I guess I should ask you.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

That's a reasonable way of thinking if one believes that God(s) is/are just peoples' fictional creations. On the other hand, if God(s) isn't/aren't fictional creations, it's a whole different ballgame. I understand that you think the former.

Fiction is way too strong a word. Is law fiction? Is morality? Is the aesthetic of beauty? Is the concept of fairness? Those things are all the accumulation of people's ideas mediated through institutions, interpreters, and history. All scientific models and theories are like that. It may even be that time and causality are like that. Basically, those are anything that derives from a human understanding of the universe. Hardly bad company to be in.

We all have some sort of difference in our understanding of all those things, and all cultures have had differences. Just as with God. As long as you can do that and compromise with the guy next door who has a different view, you're participating in a democratic political system. There is nothing inherent in the concept of God, even in monotheistic exclusivity, that precludes that.

The problem we face now is a large sub-population who will not only refuse to compromise but will sabotage the working of democracy in order not to compromise. It doesn't matter what their reason is when they do that, they've taken themselves outside the system. Essentially, they're in rebellion, but it's a special kind of rebellion where they aren't sacrificing anything or putting themselves on the line, so they can keep it up forever because it costs them nothing.

On the other hand, it's non-violent (so far), so although it's disrupting solving national problems at least it isn't building up too high a body count.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

My eating a Chick-Fil-A sandwich wasn't to protest gay marriage. It was to support freedom of speech. But, such nuance is lost on most sheeple who just repeat whatever popular slogan they hear from the liberal media.

Congrats...when you are done patting yourself on the back maybe you can explain to me why you felt the need to tell us that?

I never said, or implied that all the people who went there did so to protest Gay Marriage...but such nuance is lost on those sheeple who just want to blurt out their personal agenda.

Keep on pretending you are the only one who thinks for themselves though and that YOU know better than everyone what others are thinking and saying...it doesnt make you a hypocrite or sound crazy in the least bit Bob

 

[Handyman]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Non-sequitor for the win.

Who am I supposed to be "in favor of being attacked"? I would say nobody, but you seem to know what's in my head so I guess I should ask you.

The people who work at Chick Fil-A...DUH!

(you have to ignore the fact that the Daily Show piece that started this discussion, the one we both quote and discuss, is the complete opposite of what Bob accuses you of...logic is never a part of a Bob Gray lynching )

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Congrats...when you are done patting yourself on the back maybe you can explain to me why you felt the need to tell us that?

I never said, or implied that all the people who went there did so to protest Gay Marriage...but such nuance is lost on those sheeple who just want to blurt out their personal agenda.

Keep on pretending you are the only one who thinks for themselves though and that YOU know better than everyone what others are thinking and saying...it doesnt make you a hypocrite or sound crazy in the least bit Bob

Thank you. Having just had the following exchange with Bob, things were getting surreal:

- - -

Kepler: Set A is made up of subsets B and C. Subset B is stupid, subset C is fine.

Bob: Oh yeah? Well I was set A and set C, yet you think you can call me stupid?!?

Kepler: Um, no, Bob. Read it again. I specifically made the distinction --

Bob: Oh, you wanna fight, huh? Put em up, put em up! How dare you think you can read my mind...

Kepler: Forget it. I give up.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What's Mitt Romney's position on it?




...oh, yeah, that's right. He doesn't know.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

What's Mitt Romney's position on it?




...oh, yeah, that's right. He doesn't know.

He knows and he'll get back to you on it after the election.

Plus, he doesn't remember what he said previously but he supports that 100%.

And if you directly quote him on it you've taken him out of context. Because you envy him.

Also, he's rubber, you're glue.

In closing, he's given you people all the information he needs to.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I can't wait for when Romney announces his VP pick. I can picture somebody like Pawlenty being asked and accepting the night before, showing up at the press conference the next day only to see the Mittster on the podium disavowing ever offering him the job and attacking the press for suggesting differently. All the while a stunned T-Paw stands there in silence with a deer in the headlights look on his face.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Or this one:

Romney: Sen Portman, I'd like to offer you the VP job.

Portman: Great! I accept.

Romney: Whoa whoa whoa I said I'd like to offer it to you, not that I am offering it.

Portman: Ummm, okay...then I'd be happy to accept if offered.

Romney: Good. Be at the press confence tomorrow and prepare a speech. Don't talk to the press about this or I'll deny it.

Portman: Got it. I won't mention this to anybody until tomorrow.

Romney: No, you misunderstand. Don't mention it until Election Day!

Portman: Ummm...just to be clear, am I your VP selection or not?

Romney: Lets just say I have offered to you and I haven't offered it to you, okay?

Portman: Uh yeah, you know what, I formally withdraw my name from consideration.

Romney: WHAT, have you been talking to Rubio?

Portman: No, why?

Romney: BECAUSE HE JUST DID THE EXACT SAME THING YESTERDAY!!!

 

[geezer]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

One thing, though. The cards analogy is false because it implies independence between "cards" (states), whereas in the election there is strong dependence between movement in one state and others. The better analogy is an archipelago and choppy waters. Mitt needs waves to engulf many islands that are currently dry. The odds of all the waves hitting at once are low, however there are also tides. What Mitt really needs is a rising tide.

Your political analogy is more fun than the old boring one about rising tides and boats;
"A rising tide floods all the islands and kills off the people if they vote Romney."