Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Try again. The GOP pushed back the 60-day notice after heavy pressure from defense contractors. My company sent us emails about this every other day telling us to call "representatives who are sensitive to the needs of the Warfighter." (cough)

Haven't you blurred the distinction between correlation and causation here? I doubt that heavy pressure from defense contractors alone and in isolation would have much impact right now, they are temporarily pariahs to both sides of the aisle, at least until the 2nd week of November.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So men and women have equal say over reproductive decisions over the baby they conceived together. Check.

I don't follow at all. Why would having conceived a child with someone give a man any right over that woman's body and/or decisions? The woman has the right to make the decisions because it's her body, just as men have the right to make decisions regarding THEIR own bodies. All citizens have dominion over their own bodies and nobody else's. The consequence of this is that women get to make more reproductive decisions than a man does - but that's not because the law is treating them differently, it's because they're plumbed differently.

 

[mookie1995]

... I mean human beings were treated differently based on race until several admendments in the 1800's changed all that.

Dammit!

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I don't follow at all. Why would having conceived a child with someone give a man any right over that woman's body and/or decisions?

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your larger point, in this particular detail, however, there are two different positions that have been advanced by different advocates that might raise some complications anyway.

One, from "the right" is that the man should have a say in the fate of his child. Can the mother unilaterally terminate that life, or does he have parental rights? It seems that once the baby is actually born, he might indeed have parental rights....which then leads to the question, how far before birth do those rights extend?

Another, from "the left," is a proposal that paternity tests be used to mandate that the right male "pay his fair share" whether it be in child support if the mother decides one way, or for the procedure itself if she decides the other way....the logic of which could easily be extended back to the first position via a different path of reasoning, depending upon how it is presented.



Sometimes, I don't fully support "either" side, I feel more like a quantum superposition of both sides to a certain extent.....good thing I'm not a judge, I suppose.

 

[Bill]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Here's one that alludes to the noises they were making:



You also have to consider that these emails come intermixed with desperate calls for supporting our PAC to "make your voice heard." I don't have the figures on our PAC, but similar ones from LM and NG give about 60/40 GOP when there is a Dem incumbent and 70/30 GOP when there is a GOP incumbent.

This is what I see from reading the various links. Sequestration cuts are supposed to take effect Jan 2 unless Congress can come to a budget agreement before then, and the WARN act law requires defense contractors to issue layoff notices to anyone that would need to be cut on Jan 2 60 days prior to that, which means a few days before the election. That would be pretty inconvenient for the Obama administration so they have had the Dept of Labor issue guidance saying the 60 day notices don't have to be sent out because Congress might reach a budget agreement thus negating the Sequestration cuts. Sounds like pretty shaky guidance to me. If they don't send out the notices and Congress doesn't come to a budget agreement, then defense contractors will have violated the law.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

That would be pretty inconvenient for the Obama administration so they have had the Dept of Labor issue guidance saying the 60 day notices don't have to be sent out because Congress might reach a budget agreement thus negating the Sequestration cuts. Sounds like pretty shaky guidance to me. If they don't send out the notices and Congress doesn't come to a budget agreement, then defense contractors will have violated the law.

From listening to POTUS I get a very different view of the story. Businesses that will be affected by Sequestration have been talking to the Republicans and trying to get them to leverage Obama on the defense cuts with the usual (sniff -- little Johnny will be at risk, oh God, not little Johnny!!!). That was the GOP's first choice anyway, since that way they can pay off a little more graft to the defense industry and more importantly hijack Sequestration as a policy instrument, run out the clock, and get everything they want. However, Obama and the Dems are obviously not going to roll over for them. But that still leaves the instability of planning with "known unknowns," which neither party wants. Hence the agreement to push back the 60-day warning. Who benefits from that? Not Dems, not Republicans, but incumbents. At last, a bipartisan action!

It looks like the GOP stole a march on the Dems by immediately painting it as Obama's doing, when it was a negotiation tactic the Republicans actually instigated.

But more power to them for that. That's how the big boys play the game.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your larger point, in this particular detail, however, there are two different positions that have been advanced by different advocates that might raise some complications anyway.

One, from "the right" is that the man should have a say in the fate of his child. Can the mother unilaterally terminate that life, or does he have parental rights? It seems that once the baby is actually born, he might indeed have parental rights....which then leads to the question, how far before birth do those rights extend?

The Supreme Court struck down "father's consent" laws in 1976 and "father's notification" laws in 1992 - the woman does not even have to notify the father, much less get his permission. So, according to today's "settled" law, the father definitely has no rights before birth - the fetus is simply a part of the woman's body as far as the law is concerned.

Another, from "the left," is a proposal that paternity tests be used to mandate that the right male "pay his fair share" whether it be in child support if the mother decides one way, or for the procedure itself if she decides the other way....the logic of which could easily be extended back to the first position via a different path of reasoning, depending upon how it is presented.

Once a child is born, both parents have an obligation to provide for the child. If an unmarried couple has a child and he chooses to raise it, she would (should) be equally as liable for child support as if the roles were reversed. Again, all people of both sexes treated equally.

 

[Rover]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Sequestration was the Republicans overplaying their hand ala the govt shutdown in 1995. Simply put, they voted for it instead of argeeing to a Grand Bargain. Now they either play ball or accept tax hikes and military spending cuts, two things I'm sure Obama will be happy to ram down their throats by simply doing nothing. Its their law. If they didn't like it, why did they pass it? Once again like health care the party is putting all their eggs in the basket of Willard Mitt Romney and his ability to be elected President. Good luck with that. They inexplicably negotiated away all their leverage. Obama's not up for re-election after November. Congress is, and the way the bill is set up doing nothing = win for Obama. This is what happens when you put people like Mitch McConnell in positions of influence.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I think folding on Sequestration was the Republicans realizing they didn't have a Plan B after their epic fail on the budget and the debt ceiling charade. They needed to kick the can down the road and regroup, and they thought that one of two things would happen: either Americans would (wrongly) blame Obama for losing our credit rating and they would have a clean sweep after 2012 and pass whatever they wanted, or American would (correctly) blame the TPers for losing our credit rating and then the corporate cons could reassert their control over the party in 2012 and go back to hammering at Obama knowing they wouldn't have their legs cut out from under them by their own flank.

As it turned out, neither thing happened. The country has just plum forgot the TPers came within days of destroying the US economy and blames nobody, the mainstream GOP is less popular than avian flu, the TP is ginning up for another try at a Beer Hall Putsch, and the GOP still does not have a Plan B.

All of which makes me think we will get that can kicked down the road again, only this time under slightly more unfavorable and embarrassing terms for the RNC.

All of this could have been avoided if Obama had embraced Simpson-Bowles from the start and the GOP didn't feel they needed to felate Grover and Fiends for their campaign bribes. Change those two things and we get a grand bargain and a few more trillion chopped off the deficit monster, enough time for the economy to recover by purely systemic means, and the triumph of bipartisanship. The adults had it in their power, but they simply couldn't stand up to the shriekers.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

So, Obama's election slogan is, "i'm not as bad as he is" or "he's even worse than me."

and Romney's election slogan is "I'm not him."

Will either one of them ever get around to discussing what's best for the country and what the country needs?

So far, both of them are making the election about them, not us.




what ever happened to servant leadership, anyway? in different forms, it made both the Reagan Presidency and 60% of the Clinton Presidency great. No sign from either Tweedledee or Tweedledum yet.

 

[unofan]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Cool, then the progressive income tax is unconstitutional since it treats citizens differently.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of heterosexual couples, including me, who went to the courthouse. that's a civil union. we've had heterosexual civil unions for centuries.

As married man I don't give a rip what you call it. The title, classification, distinction or categorizing of what I and my wife and kids enjoy will never, ever, ever be hindered nor altered by what label you ascribe to it.

What the hell do people think less than 2% of the population wishing to celebrate and legalize a union between two adults wishing to recoginze their commitment to each other think will be ruined that hasn't already been done so by the millions of heteros that get divorced, engage in adultery, abuse each other and abuse their children will do to the "SANCTITY" of marriage?

Please.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Then you arent looking. Hipsters are everywhere I have seen them in NE and many a bar in St. Paul. Uptown stopped being the Mecca for Hipsters right about the time I moved here. Now it is just infested with bike riders who never follow the rules of the road even though we gave them a friggin lane on the roads.

Well of course they are everywhere. Going back to the analogy I put forth, you don't see Muslims only in Mecca. They live everywhere. However, like hipsters in Uptown, Mecca is still the geographic center of their universe.

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Brace yourselves for more unsubstantiated attacks... This is worse than two kids arguing in the back seat during a 4 hr ride to Grandma's.

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/GuyBenson/2012/08/03/reid_keeps_digging

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Obama was on a Columbus radio station and came out in favor of the Penn State sanctions. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he's just trying to get the GOP House to pass a bill mandating coverups of child rape and renaming Washington DC "Paternoland" out of their obsessive need to oppose him on anything.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Obama was on a Columbus radio station and came out in favor of the Penn State sanctions.

If people are thinking Obama isn't taking enough public positions during the election...here's another case where he's taking a position he doesn't even need to. No need for him to do this.

 

[walrus]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

If people are thinking Obama isn't taking enough public positions during the election...here's another case where he's taking a position he doesn't even need to. No need for him to do this.

Wow
And it was a tough position to take.

 

[joecct]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

If people are thinking Obama isn't taking enough public positions during the election...here's another case where he's taking a position he doesn't even need to. No need for him to do this.

Did he just lose the Central PA vote??

 

[bronconick]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

I won't be impressed until he comes out as pro-breathing, just to see how many Tea Party members immediately start holding their breath.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Elections 2012 -- Carrion My Wayward Son!

Wow
And it was a tough position to take.

That the most important institution in one of the most important battleground states deserved to get a near death penalty? When has Mitt taken a similar controversial stance that specifically targets yet could be damaging in a battleground state?

If this is such a slam dunk, you must be predicting Mitt to come out in favor of severe sanctions on Penn St. I'm not holding my breath.