ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

[OnMAA]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Congratulations to the Big Red, Crimson, Saints and Bobcats to make it to the final four. Seeds 1,2,5 and 6.

Very compelling semi-final matchups:

Second year in a row Cornell and Quinnipiac meet in the Semi. Last year Cornell won a tight game 4-3.
Cornell was touted as top dog in the ECAC all year, and have been pretty consistent most of the year. They are the favorite going in. Quinnipiac was picked by many to be second, but they have had an up and down season. They started off really slow, then had a great middle part of the season, earning them first place in the ECAC standings for a long stretch until they hit the skids in late January and early February. They seem to be back on a high, closing the season strongly in the last weekend, and then dispatching a hot Clarkson team in the first round. This should be an interesting matchup. Vigilante has proven in the past, she can steal games.

In the other Semi, second seed Harvard, meets a red hot SLU team. SLU has only lost twice since early December, going 16-2-1 in that stretch, their only two lossed coming at the Hands of Cornell. This game could have serious ramifications for for teams, if they want to get into the NCAA tournament. SLU has to win to have a chance at an at large bid. Harvard, could lose and still get into the tournament, but then other things would have to fall into place for them. Harvard beat SLU twice HTH, but that was early in the season, before SLU went onto their hot streak. Harvard has been kind of hot and cold lately, and Princeton gave them fits in round one. Both these teams come in with speed and a few sharp shooters, so it should be a fun game to watch.


I think it will be a Cornell - SLU final, but both Semi's will be close affairs.

Good luck to all teams.

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

This really made me LOL when I read it!

What I should have said was that Harvard got royally screwed for winding up as the #2 seed and having to play in the barn of their hated rivals. Any way you look at it, that is what has happened with this switch to one site for both games. At least at Bright, we'd have the same home ice advantage that Cornell will enjoy for their semi. Now...

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Congratulations to the Big Red, Crimson, Saints and Bobcats to make it to the final four. Seeds 1,2,5 and 6.

Very compelling semi-final matchups:

Second year in a row Cornell and Quinnipiac meet in the Semi. Last year Cornell won a tight game 4-3.
Cornell was touted as top dog in the ECAC all year, and have been pretty consistent most of the year. They are the favorite going in. Quinnipiac was picked by many to be second, but they have had an up and down season. They started off really slow, then had a great middle part of the season, earning them first place in the ECAC standings for a long stretch until they hit the skids in late January and early February. They seem to be back on a high, closing the season strongly in the last weekend, and then dispatching a hot Clarkson team in the first round. This should be an interesting matchup. Vigilante has proven in the past, she can steal games.

In the other Semi, second seed Harvard, meets a red hot SLU team. SLU has only lost twice since early December, going 16-2-1 in that stretch, their only two lossed coming at the Hands of Cornell. This game could have serious ramifications for for teams, if they want to get into the NCAA tournament. SLU has to win to have a chance at an at large bid. Harvard, could lose and still get into the tournament, but then other things would have to fall into place for them. Harvard beat SLU twice HTH, but that was early in the season, before SLU went onto their hot streak. Harvard has been kind of hot and cold lately, and Princeton gave them fits in round one. Both these teams come in with speed and a few sharp shooters, so it should be a fun game to watch.


I think it will be a Cornell - SLU final, but both Semi's will be close affairs.

Good luck to all teams.

Sorry to disagree but having lost their last three ECAC semifinal games, Harvard is certainly motivated to produce different results this year. SLU is very hot as you point out but we've had good success against the Saints and I feel that will continue on Friday.

Saturday is a different story. Assuming Cornell wins (and I think they will), it will be a very difficult chore to beat them in their barn. Not impossible but Bellamy will have to stand on her head for us to have a chance to win. She hasn't exactly been on fire lately so here's hoping she comes up with two great games to ensure we get into the NCAA tournament.

 

[mattj711]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Sorry to disagree but having lost their last three ECAC semifinal games, Harvard is certainly motivated to produce different results this year. SLU is very hot as you point out but we've had good success against the Saints and I feel that will continue on Friday.

I'm not sure what to expect from the Harvard/SLU semi. I think SLU has been as hot as just about any team in the country over the second half of the season, and their two losses against Harvard were early in the season when they were definitely not firing on all cylinders. With that said, SLU seems to have a bit of a tradition of laying an egg when they play against Harvard.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Sorry to disagree but having lost their last three ECAC semifinal games, Harvard is certainly motivated to produce different results this year. SLU is very hot as you point out but we've had good success against the Saints and I feel that will continue on Friday.

No need to be sorry to disagree. Interesting observation, you were pessimistic last week, The Crimson facing a Princeton team at home they had blown away recently, while this week you are optimistic with the Crimson facing a hot SLU team on neutral ground. Seems to me you are basing your predictions more on past than recent history, while I tend to look at the more recent trends to make mine.

 

[dave1381]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

No need to be sorry to disagree. Interesting observation, you were pessimistic last week, The Crimson facing a Princeton team at home they had blown away recently, while this week you are optimistic with the Crimson facing a hot SLU team on neutral ground. Seems to me you are basing your predictions more on past than recent history, while I tend to look at the more recent trends to make mine.

Speaking for myself, I'd look at recent trends, the earlier matchups, and give some thought to longer-term history.

You evaluate the recent trend as hot SLU vs. hot-and-cold Harvard. I don't see a huge difference between the teams. Both teams have done very well since Thanksgiving against teams not named Cornell, SLU 16-0-1 and Harvard 17-3-1. Two of the three Harvard losses came on midweek games against BC/BU, while SLU has never had to play midweek games against better-rested & focused opponents. So yes, while SLU has surely had results a bit better than Harvard since Thanksgiving, it's not like Harvard has ever been "cold." And the Princeton team Harvard struggled against, SLU beat 1-0 and got outshot 31-17 during this stretch.

As for the earlier matchups, sure they were early, but Harvard gave SLU by far its two worse beatings of the season. Harvard also gave SLU its two worse losses in the ECAC playoffs last season. Surely SLU has improved since then, but I think there's some information there about how well Harvard matches up with SLU. And then going back further, Harvard has won 9 in a row against SLU. Meanwhile Harvard tends to have had more trouble with Princeton. Obviously these rosters turn over entirely over four years, but the coaches know a fair amount about each other's style, and I don't think some of these longer term trends are just some total fluke.

So yes, while SLU has some slight edge in recent play, Harvard has clearly matched up well head-to-head with SLU better than any team could possibly match up with another opponent, so I have to think Harvard is the favorite. That said, certainly SLU is a much-improved team, and Harvard would be in trouble if it expects to roll to a fifth straight five-goal win.

 

[Watson Rink]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Continuing to harp peevishly about the ECAC's failure to schedule each team to finish playing a full 11-game round robin before embarking on a second 11-game round robin, I merely note that this year the four teams that ended in a near dead heat for seeds #2 through #5 played a total of 12 games amongst each other and that 10 of those 12 critical games were played during the month of November.

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

No need to be sorry to disagree. Interesting observation, you were pessimistic last week, The Crimson facing a Princeton team at home they had blown away recently, while this week you are optimistic with the Crimson facing a hot SLU team on neutral ground. Seems to me you are basing your predictions more on past than recent history, while I tend to look at the more recent trends to make mine.

Well, I wasn't exactly pessimistic because I picked Harvard to beat Princeton two straight. I merely observed that after beating Princeton 10-1, I felt that the series would be closer but that Harvard would prevail. I was surprised at how close the games were but not the outcome. Princeton plays us tough most of the time. Two years ago, we played them in the ECAC quarters at Bright after losing and tying them during the regular season. That series was no contest; it looked like the Tigers never got off the bus. Harvard killed them. So one never knows how these games will play out.

I do agree with Dave's assessment where SLU is concerned. I've seen all the games at Bright against the Saints and we do know how to play them very well. Not to say we are in their heads because I don't think we are. But we match up well against them and they seem to bring out the best in us time and again. That said, what happened in November has no bearing on what will happen on Friday. Just like what happened at the beginning of February in clobbering Princeton obviously did not translate into an easy series against the Tigers this past weekend. It's one and done time and as Harvard has painfully discovered the past three years, if you don't bring your "A" game, you are cooked.

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

I'm not sure what to expect from the Harvard/SLU semi. I think SLU has been as hot as just about any team in the country over the second half of the season, and their two losses against Harvard were early in the season when they were definitely not firing on all cylinders. With that said, SLU seems to have a bit of a tradition of laying an egg when they play against Harvard.

I honestly think the winner of the Harvard-SLU game should go to the NCAAs regardless of what happens the next day against Cornell. Okay, so that assumes Cornell beats the Bobcats. If an upset occurs (and I don't think it will but just for the sake of argument, let's go with it) and the Bobcats beat Harvard or SLU and get the autobid, Cornell has to go and thus SLU or Harvard get shut out. I think this is where we heat up the discussion of expanding the field to 10 teams. I find it hard to swallow that when teams such as Harvard and SLU play as well as they have down the stretch, they should be penalized for losing one game and not make the tournament. Maybe that's naive but I can't believe the quality of the tournament would be watered down significantly by adding two more teams.

 

[dave1381]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Harvard's already secured it's status as one of the top 8 teams in the country, as far as I can tell, regardless of what happens Friday and Saturday. The only question for NCAA qualification is whether Harvard gets bumped from the NCAA field by an autobid winner outside the top 8. The primary benefit of beating SLU, from the perspective of reaching NCAAs, is to prevent SLU from winning the autobid. Harvard has the edge in 3 of the 4 criteria, even with a loss Friday.

Of course getting past the ECAC semifinals for the first time in four years and building momentum for NCAAs are all also good reasons to win the game Friday.

I agree it would be nice to have a larger tournament and there's enough quality to merit it, but the problem is the funding, and the funding for the 8-team tournament is already inadequate. I wouldn't want a tournament that becomes too much of a retread of conference tournaments or the Beanpot every year, which is what'll happen if the NCAA won't provide the funds -- and no one other than the D-I basketballs and men's hockey gets those funds.

 

[ARM]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

I agree it would be nice to have a larger tournament and there's enough quality to merit it...

Am I remembering wrong, or is this the deepest field we've had? Usually once we get to around #8 or #9 in the country, the caliber of teams falls off quite dramatically. This year, I'd say that UMD is the best 4th seed the WCHA has ever had. The top three in Hockey East look solid, and Providence isn't that far away. The ECAC held up pretty well down to its sixth team without a sharp decline, although there have definitely been years where the second or third teams in the league have been better. Add in Mercyhurst -- not one of the best Lakers teams, but still tourney caliber -- and there would be enough teams for a decent 12-team tourney, although admittedly, not the funds for one.

 

[papulaisle]

ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Am I remembering wrong, or is this the deepest field we've had? Usually once we get to around #8 or #9 in the country, the caliber of teams falls off quite dramatically. This year, I'd say that UMD is the best 4th seed the WCHA has ever had. The top three in Hockey East look solid, and Providence isn't that far away. The ECAC held up pretty well down to its sixth team without a sharp decline, although there have definitely been years where the second or third teams in the league have been better. Add in Mercyhurst -- not one of the best Lakers teams, but still tourney caliber -- and there would be enough teams for a decent 12-team tourney, although admittedly, not the funds for one.

Agree. Wasn't sure if it was just (with me) Dartmouth not fairing as well this year (Go Green GO!). Teams, conferences, some how ARE stronger- deeper.

SLU will have a crowd there- more than Harv at any rate. I saw SLU versus Q. and then D. Sabatine- spelling? and number 76, the post grad, are workers- tough, savvy. Might depend on MacDonald (spell?)...goal.

Can't agree, Skate. Harv IS in SLU head; question is, is SLU in Harv head?
Can't take lightly- as you stress.

Want SLU. Brother went & played there- some.

Expect your Boston team to, however, prevail.

Harv has MOJO if A N Y O N E in the entire whole wide world has MOJO and esp. in women's ice hockey!
Yikes. Who are we kidding?

BUT, remember that weekend when SLU went into Boston and left with BC and Northeastern wagging their tails behind?

Ya- THAT was impressive.

 

[NUWH DogHouse]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

BUT, remember that weekend when SLU went into Boston and left with BC and Northeastern wagging their tails behind?

Ya- THAT was impressive.

We tend to block that out. I see SLU taking this if Cornell doesn't. Harvard just looked uninspired to me in Beanpot play. Quinipiac didn't impress me in our meeting earlier in the season, though they seem to have gotten it together.

 

[dave1381]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

We tend to block that out. I see SLU taking this if Cornell doesn't. Harvard just looked uninspired to me in Beanpot play. Quinipiac didn't impress me in our meeting earlier in the season, though they seem to have gotten it together.

Sure, Harvard look uninspired in Beanpot, but SLU has look uninspired every time they've played Harvard in the last 3 years. These were the worst performances for each team. I'm not sure why the Beanpot games are a more relevant predictor of Harvard's outcome this weekend. I think if anything, they're less of a predictor because those games are so unlike the weekend routine throughout the ECAC season.

 

[NUWH DogHouse]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Sure, Harvard look uninspired in Beanpot, but SLU has look uninspired every time they've played Harvard in the last 3 years. These were the worst performances for each team. I'm not sure why the Beanpot games are a more relevant predictor of Harvard's outcome this weekend. I think if anything, they're less of a predictor because those games are so unlike the weekend routine throughout the ECAC season.

They are relevant for me because that is all I have seen of Harvard's play. As for the past being relevant, those were different teams.

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Am I remembering wrong, or is this the deepest field we've had? Usually once we get to around #8 or #9 in the country, the caliber of teams falls off quite dramatically. This year, I'd say that UMD is the best 4th seed the WCHA has ever had. The top three in Hockey East look solid, and Providence isn't that far away. The ECAC held up pretty well down to its sixth team without a sharp decline, although there have definitely been years where the second or third teams in the league have been better. Add in Mercyhurst -- not one of the best Lakers teams, but still tourney caliber -- and there would be enough teams for a decent 12-team tourney, although admittedly, not the funds for one.

This is a deep field which somewhat prompted my comment on expansion. Although I agree with Dave that I would not want to see a regurgitation of conference tournaments through an expanded field. Given the number of D-1 programs coming on line and gaining traction, I don't think this will be a problem in the future as far as seedings and pairings.

It's a shame the NCAA while making millions off of football and the BCS can't find it in their considerable bank account to fund women's hockey. The women are getting the shaft big time. Imagine if you will two regional sites to host with corporate sponsors and ESPNU or the NBCSports Network or the Lifetime Network televising from these sites. What a boost to women's hockey as a sport and to the colleges that field programs as they should see an increase in attendance and interest. You can't expect heightened interest in anything unless you get out there and support it with dollars, marketing, venues and special events that draw even casual fans to the rink. I don't think it requires a lot of imagination. If women's hockey is good enough to make it to the international stage as an Olympic event, it's good enough for investment by the NCAA. Just my ornery two cents.

 

[papulaisle]

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

Re: ECAC Quarterfinal Playoff 2012 thread Which May be the, 'Semi's'?

It is my understanding, from talking to a Cornell parent and player, that host Cornell had the option to choose which time slot they preferred.

Think here Cornell folks chose 2 PM as were 7 PM to go to OT, might not get enuff rest. Also, fans can come at 2- at least college fans, maybe.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

Agree. Wasn't sure if it was just (with me) Dartmouth not fairing as well this year (Go Green GO!). Teams, conferences, some how ARE stronger- deeper.

SLU will have a crowd there- more than Harv at any rate. I saw SLU versus Q. and then D. Sabatine- spelling? and number 76, the post grad, are workers- tough, savvy. Might depend on MacDonald (spell?)...goal.

Can't agree, Skate. Harv IS in SLU head; question is, is SLU in Harv head?
Can't take lightly- as you stress.

Want SLU. Brother went & played there- some.

Expect your Boston team to, however, prevail.

Harv has MOJO if A N Y O N E in the entire whole wide world has MOJO and esp. in women's ice hockey!
Yikes. Who are we kidding?

BUT, remember that weekend when SLU went into Boston and left with BC and Northeastern wagging their tails behind?

Ya- THAT was impressive.

Priceless.

P.S.....Great discussion and insight by all those contributing.

 

[Skate79]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

They are relevant for me because that is all I have seen of Harvard's play. As for the past being relevant, those were different teams.

I wouldn't use NU's performance in the Beanpot against Harvard as a predictor of what will happen this weekend. I would instead focus on H2H matchups and recent play in HE to gauge how the Huskies will or will not perform this weekend. In conference is far different than out of conference play especially where Harvard is concerned because their record out of conference these past couple of seasons has not been good against ranked teams. Against the ECAC with the exception of games vs. Cornell, Harvard has fared much better and as has been discussed, against SLU, we have done very well both in the regular season and the playoffs. That means nothing in my book going into Friday's matchup except that the Crimson have to feel confident about their chances to advance.

 

[dave1381]

Re: ECAC Playoff 2012 thread

I wouldn't use NU's performance in the Beanpot against Harvard as a predictor of what will happen this weekend. I would instead focus on H2H matchups and recent play in HE to gauge how the Huskies will or will not perform this weekend.

They actually play Northeastern though I agree with the overall thrust of your post.

In conference is far different than out of conference play especially where Harvard is concerned because their record out of conference these past couple of seasons has not been good against ranked teams.

And again, you're talking about Tuesday games compared to a weekend routine. Harvard this season just wasn't focused for whatever reason those games.