CROSBYNU63
GO CADETS
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
the puck is in the hands of USM and UMass Boston. We await them to decide.
the puck is in the hands of USM and UMass Boston. We await them to decide.
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Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
reggiedunlop
New member
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Who is we?
Who is we?
The Real Georgia Peach
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
All us ECAC-E fans.
All us ECAC-E fans.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
And us ECAC-W fans salivating at the idea of an AQ
And us ECAC-W fans salivating at the idea of an AQ
cooperalls
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
The DII's already play by the same rules and have for years and are handicapped even more because their recruits have to pass the clearinghouse and yet still abide by DIII rules otherwise they should seperate and tell their AD's that either they want to go ACHA Div. I and play for a National Championship because you only need 6 teams in a conference to get an AQ for ACHA Div. I or tell their AD's that they are going to compete as a DII to the fullest extent and play theire 32 or 37 games or whatever is allowed under DII and play D1 and D3 programs as an NCAA Independent. I don't know why they don't force the AD's and say hey we are going to play the max games and continue to spend more money like the NCAA tells us unless you knuckle heads actually contact the NCAA and propose something and change the legislation for this particular sport. The coaches cannot do it it has to be the AD's and Presidents that get together and go to the NCAA and request the changes.
The DII's already play by the same rules and have for years and are handicapped even more because their recruits have to pass the clearinghouse and yet still abide by DIII rules otherwise they should seperate and tell their AD's that either they want to go ACHA Div. I and play for a National Championship because you only need 6 teams in a conference to get an AQ for ACHA Div. I or tell their AD's that they are going to compete as a DII to the fullest extent and play theire 32 or 37 games or whatever is allowed under DII and play D1 and D3 programs as an NCAA Independent. I don't know why they don't force the AD's and say hey we are going to play the max games and continue to spend more money like the NCAA tells us unless you knuckle heads actually contact the NCAA and propose something and change the legislation for this particular sport. The coaches cannot do it it has to be the AD's and Presidents that get together and go to the NCAA and request the changes.
cooperalls
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Bottomline money they play the bulk of their schedule against teams from Mass and within a 1 hour to 2 hour radius including the other half of their schedule which is against Mass Privates in the ECAC Northeast saves on the budget makes the AD and Presdient happy and in the end cheaper tuition for the student not only instate but they have deals for out of state and international kids as well. Some of these teams rinks are terrible Framingham, Worcester, to name a few but most of them are pretty decent like Salem's, Fitchburg, obviously Plymouth State's new home is going to be nice. But nothing can beat a cheap quality education.
Bottomline money they play the bulk of their schedule against teams from Mass and within a 1 hour to 2 hour radius including the other half of their schedule which is against Mass Privates in the ECAC Northeast saves on the budget makes the AD and Presdient happy and in the end cheaper tuition for the student not only instate but they have deals for out of state and international kids as well. Some of these teams rinks are terrible Framingham, Worcester, to name a few but most of them are pretty decent like Salem's, Fitchburg, obviously Plymouth State's new home is going to be nice. But nothing can beat a cheap quality education.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I certainly agree with you, the DII's for the most part, ALREADY follow the DIII rules, and the DIII teams shouldn't have any significant problem competing against them, nor should the DII programs find it difficult to meet any restrictions placed on them. I also agree it is NOT the student-athletes nor the hockey programs and NOT the DIII administration that present the biggest hurdle to allowing DII full DIII participation. What is? The lack of a coordinated, sincere effort of the DII administration to make it happen.
I certainly agree with you, the DII's for the most part, ALREADY follow the DIII rules, and the DIII teams shouldn't have any significant problem competing against them, nor should the DII programs find it difficult to meet any restrictions placed on them. I also agree it is NOT the student-athletes nor the hockey programs and NOT the DIII administration that present the biggest hurdle to allowing DII full DIII participation. What is? The lack of a coordinated, sincere effort of the DII administration to make it happen.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
If there are breaks for out of state kids at Salem State, that is news to me. We've been told from day 1 that the financial aid is reserved for in-state kids.
hockeyfan77
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
And I think I just gave you your answer...
And I think I just gave you your answer...
scoopnroll
New member
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner someone who gets it! I agree with Norm other than there is no for the most part they follow DIII rules no they do follow DIII rules they get no benefits they only get need based financial aid and academic scholarships, since they had been members of the ECAC East and ECAC Northeast they could not give athletic scholarships it was already established.
I guess Cooperalls it would be too hard for one Coach to draft a letter stating what they wanted to be proposed and each AD Sign it as if they had written it and send it in to the NCAA to vote on it.
The one thing I can't get is that the NCAA Div. III Rules Committee why are the wasting time messing with the game when they should be looking to expand the tournament field to more teams and changing current rules or how about changing the rules to allow DII schools which basically have DIII hockey teams to play and compete and have almost all or the same benefits that all DIII members have. Why not grow the sport. There was a time when D1, D2, and D3 all played against each other. If DIII and DII schools can move up in a sport then it should be allowed as the school abides by the rules of DIII in that sport should be able to compete at that level so long as the majority of schools wants them in their conference. Rules committee uh lets see halfies or cages. How about the DECLINE of COLLEGE ICE HOCKEY IN GENERAL!!!!!! DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR A CHANGE RATHER THAN THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING TO CHANGE HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME THAT IS AN INSULT TO ALL THE PLAYERS AND ALUMNI THAT PLAYED 10,20,30, 40 YEARS AGO! That's like saying that hockey in the 80's sucked that is why Gretzky was so good.
The only people that I see having a problem with the DII"s playing DIII are the tightwads that got rid of UM Crookston in the West all because if the DII's were allowed to play it would give the East a 2 -1 ratio in bids to the NCAA. Get over it time to expand the sport there are varsity teams in Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, and PA that are fully funded programs that the ECAC and those schools probably no nothing about.
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner someone who gets it! I agree with Norm other than there is no for the most part they follow DIII rules no they do follow DIII rules they get no benefits they only get need based financial aid and academic scholarships, since they had been members of the ECAC East and ECAC Northeast they could not give athletic scholarships it was already established.
I guess Cooperalls it would be too hard for one Coach to draft a letter stating what they wanted to be proposed and each AD Sign it as if they had written it and send it in to the NCAA to vote on it.
The one thing I can't get is that the NCAA Div. III Rules Committee why are the wasting time messing with the game when they should be looking to expand the tournament field to more teams and changing current rules or how about changing the rules to allow DII schools which basically have DIII hockey teams to play and compete and have almost all or the same benefits that all DIII members have. Why not grow the sport. There was a time when D1, D2, and D3 all played against each other. If DIII and DII schools can move up in a sport then it should be allowed as the school abides by the rules of DIII in that sport should be able to compete at that level so long as the majority of schools wants them in their conference. Rules committee uh lets see halfies or cages. How about the DECLINE of COLLEGE ICE HOCKEY IN GENERAL!!!!!! DO SOMETHING IMPORTANT FOR A CHANGE RATHER THAN THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING TO CHANGE HOW PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME THAT IS AN INSULT TO ALL THE PLAYERS AND ALUMNI THAT PLAYED 10,20,30, 40 YEARS AGO! That's like saying that hockey in the 80's sucked that is why Gretzky was so good.
The only people that I see having a problem with the DII"s playing DIII are the tightwads that got rid of UM Crookston in the West all because if the DII's were allowed to play it would give the East a 2 -1 ratio in bids to the NCAA. Get over it time to expand the sport there are varsity teams in Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, and PA that are fully funded programs that the ECAC and those schools probably no nothing about.
cooperalls
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Are you kidding me?
Close to half or more than 50% of Mascac teams rosters are made up of out of staters or international students.
Fitchburg- 13
Framingham - 13
Westifled - 18
Salem - 10
Plymouth - 18
Worcester - 17
Umass Dartmouth - 9
If Umass Boston enters the picture - 25
Southern Maine - 14
For some schools an awfully high percentage of out of state/internation going and paying full amount of tuition if that's the case me thinks good deal on financial aid package helps swallow terrible team and even worse rink to play out of.
There was a time where Umass Boston were all hard nosed mass kids and the current coaching staff was praised for going out and bringing in tons of out of state and international kids yet record indicate still long way to go to repeat days of glory for UMB going this route.
Are you kidding me?
Close to half or more than 50% of Mascac teams rosters are made up of out of staters or international students.
Fitchburg- 13
Framingham - 13
Westifled - 18
Salem - 10
Plymouth - 18
Worcester - 17
Umass Dartmouth - 9
If Umass Boston enters the picture - 25
Southern Maine - 14
For some schools an awfully high percentage of out of state/internation going and paying full amount of tuition if that's the case me thinks good deal on financial aid package helps swallow terrible team and even worse rink to play out of.
There was a time where Umass Boston were all hard nosed mass kids and the current coaching staff was praised for going out and bringing in tons of out of state and international kids yet record indicate still long way to go to repeat days of glory for UMB going this route.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I see NO evidence of "in-state exclusivity" for general financial aid at Salem State, though I also do not see any programs to actively encourage out-of-state diversity. Need based financial aid increases as cost increase, so US citizens who are also out-of-state students WILL receive more FEDERAL based aid, however, it is highly unlikely to cover the SEVEN TIMES higher out-of-state tuition cost. Also, note, like most state based aid, Massachusetts State Financial Aid is only available to permanent residents of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Student body
The college's (FY09) student population is comprised of:
Full-time: Undergraduate - 5,790 -- Graduate - 316
Part-time: Undergraduate - 1,887 -- Graduate - 2,164
Gender breakdown: Undergraduate - M 38% F 62% -- Graduate - M 21% F 79%
Self-reported students of color: Undergraduate - 19% -- Graduate - 4%
Massachusetts residents: Undergraduate - 94% -- Graduate - 93%
Other U.S. residents: Undergraduate - 4% -- Graduate - 3%
International residents: Undergraduate - 2% -- Graduate - 4%
Alumni Body
Total number of living alumni: 45,659
Massachusetts residents: 36,208
Other U.S. residents: 9,260
International: 191
Student Tuition Costs and Fees
------------------- In State - Out of State
FT Undergraduate Tuition $910 - $7,050
FT Undergraduate Required Fees $5,360 - $5,360
PT Undergraduate per Credit Hour $190 - $369
FT Graduate Tuition $2,520 - $4,140
FT Graduate Required Fees $1,980 - $1,980
PT Graduate per Credit Hour $250 - $340
Total Cost of Attendance — On-Campus $16,788 - $22,928
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus w/out Family $16,940 - $23,080
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus with Family $9,920 - $16,060
I see NO evidence of "in-state exclusivity" for general financial aid at Salem State, though I also do not see any programs to actively encourage out-of-state diversity. Need based financial aid increases as cost increase, so US citizens who are also out-of-state students WILL receive more FEDERAL based aid, however, it is highly unlikely to cover the SEVEN TIMES higher out-of-state tuition cost. Also, note, like most state based aid, Massachusetts State Financial Aid is only available to permanent residents of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Student body
The college's (FY09) student population is comprised of:
Full-time: Undergraduate - 5,790 -- Graduate - 316
Part-time: Undergraduate - 1,887 -- Graduate - 2,164
Gender breakdown: Undergraduate - M 38% F 62% -- Graduate - M 21% F 79%
Self-reported students of color: Undergraduate - 19% -- Graduate - 4%
Massachusetts residents: Undergraduate - 94% -- Graduate - 93%
Other U.S. residents: Undergraduate - 4% -- Graduate - 3%
International residents: Undergraduate - 2% -- Graduate - 4%
Alumni Body
Total number of living alumni: 45,659
Massachusetts residents: 36,208
Other U.S. residents: 9,260
International: 191
Student Tuition Costs and Fees
------------------- In State - Out of State
FT Undergraduate Tuition $910 - $7,050
FT Undergraduate Required Fees $5,360 - $5,360
PT Undergraduate per Credit Hour $190 - $369
FT Graduate Tuition $2,520 - $4,140
FT Graduate Required Fees $1,980 - $1,980
PT Graduate per Credit Hour $250 - $340
Total Cost of Attendance — On-Campus $16,788 - $22,928
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus w/out Family $16,940 - $23,080
Total Cost of Attendance — Off-Campus with Family $9,920 - $16,060
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Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
utica.......
Jerry- That looks good, however, if UNE stays E would M'ville be able to schedule around a nine team format w/o a travel partner? Or would they just have to stay in the ECAC-W?....BTW I don't know where hockeyfan77 gets his info, but I, for one, hope it's right.
utica.......
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I thought the SME was in the NE did not like it and worked hard to get into the ECAC East. If that is true, I think the East in tact would still be there first choice as the NE and MASCAC are similar and having had the choice earlier chose the East.
I also think the SME women play in the ECAC East which is back to having all of the animals in the same barn thinking that the MASCAC is pushing.
I thought the SME was in the NE did not like it and worked hard to get into the ECAC East. If that is true, I think the East in tact would still be there first choice as the NE and MASCAC are similar and having had the choice earlier chose the East.
I also think the SME women play in the ECAC East which is back to having all of the animals in the same barn thinking that the MASCAC is pushing.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.
If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.
Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport
Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.
If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.
Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
From following SM and UMB in the ECAC E it has always been my feeling that both teams like to play a highly compeitive brand of D3 hockey that was offered in the interlock and maybe now strickly in the ECAC E. If all the D3 decide to stay in the ECAC E I would still look to recruit a couple of willing teams from this list:
Manhattanville
Utica
Curry
Wentworth
Plymouth (I know they are in the MASCAC but may want to play a more competitive brand of hockey).
The D2 question/problem has been out there for years. Both St. Mikes and St. A's are D3 size schools and could of converted to D3 a number of times and solved the problem.
From following SM and UMB in the ECAC E it has always been my feeling that both teams like to play a highly compeitive brand of D3 hockey that was offered in the interlock and maybe now strickly in the ECAC E. If all the D3 decide to stay in the ECAC E I would still look to recruit a couple of willing teams from this list:
Manhattanville
Utica
Curry
Wentworth
Plymouth (I know they are in the MASCAC but may want to play a more competitive brand of hockey).
The D2 question/problem has been out there for years. Both St. Mikes and St. A's are D3 size schools and could of converted to D3 a number of times and solved the problem.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Cards you haven't heard of the re-branding 
Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.
If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.
Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport
Cards you haven't heard of the re-branding
hockeyfan77
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I believe that USM was in the old ECAC North...I think they also had a South but like you I have no idea pre-1995 about much of the history...I do know some of the older players from those teams...
Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.
If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.
Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport
I believe that USM was in the old ECAC North...I think they also had a South but like you I have no idea pre-1995 about much of the history...I do know some of the older players from those teams...
cooperalls
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
USM were a member of the ECAC North and joined the East around 92. The used to have the ECAC North/South and ECAC East/West back in the early 90's. 20 teams in the East trying to vie for one of 7 playoff spots. Not all these blanket AQ's they got going to everybody now and everybody makes the tournament philosophy.
USM were a member of the ECAC North and joined the East around 92. The used to have the ECAC North/South and ECAC East/West back in the early 90's. 20 teams in the East trying to vie for one of 7 playoff spots. Not all these blanket AQ's they got going to everybody now and everybody makes the tournament philosophy.
Who is SME? Are you referring to the University of Southern Maine, which would be USM? Or University of New England, which would be UNE.
If you're referring to UNE, they entered DIII this past season as a member of the ECAC-East. If you're referring to USM, I'm less familiar with their history, but the Team History page shows them as having been a member of the ECAC-East since 72/73. Now, I'm not 100% confident when it comes to DII/DIII history prior to 1995 (since I wasn't born until 91), but I didn't think the ECAC-NE was that old as a conference.
Now, if you're referring to someone else, please correct me... but I was unaware of an SME in this sport
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
The ECAC North and South merged to form the NE. When that happened, USM moved from the North to the East, and Skidmore moved from the South to the East. The Old East was a big sprawling league that included most of the current members, several DI and DII programs, and all of the NESCAC (except Tufts)
At least that's how my memory says it worked
I believe that USM was in the old ECAC North...I think they also had a South but like you I have no idea pre-1995 about much of the history...I do know some of the older players from those teams...
The ECAC North and South merged to form the NE. When that happened, USM moved from the North to the East, and Skidmore moved from the South to the East. The Old East was a big sprawling league that included most of the current members, several DI and DII programs, and all of the NESCAC (except Tufts)
At least that's how my memory says it worked