Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[dreamer6]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

4. Let the DIIers fend for themselves.

So from many of the posts in this thread, it seems the general consensus for St. A's and St. Mike's is they are definitely out. Would the NCAA have to "grandfather" them allowing their games to count? Is that even possible? St. A's has been talking about moving up to DI for years, will their hand be forced? They have a decent team now, and could probably do ok in the Atlantic league. I always thought St. Mike's had a stronger program, but I suppose they will likely end up playing with the other DII schools exclusively. Anyway, I thought I would pose the question because it does seem most people believe they are gone from DIII.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

So from many of the posts in this thread, it seems the general consensus for St. A's and St. Mike's is they are definitely out. Would the NCAA have to "grandfather" them allowing their games to count? Is that even possible? St. A's has been talking about moving up to DI for years, will their hand be forced? They have a decent team now, and could probably do ok in the Atlantic league. I always thought St. Mike's had a stronger program, but I suppose they will likely end up playing with the other DII schools exclusively. Anyway, I thought I would pose the question because it does seem most people believe they are gone from DIII.

The "DII'ers" unfortunately must "fend for themselves"; they have to initiate whatever long term goal they want. Reality is there are too FEW DII schools to sustain a realistic championship. IMO, there would be little resistance from the DIII schools to allowing their hockey teams full DIII status, so long as their hockey programs adhered as much as feasible to the DIII rules and regulations. But alas, this is NOT a DIII problem, and it is up to the DII programs to seek a solution.

 

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

This sucks for USM...Now they get to play in a league with only 2 or 3 teams have their own rink...I think it's too much to ask USM to travel to Penn though: so basically the interlock dies and USM gets kicked out of the ECAC East (yes it pretty much happened)...So for all the joy over this new league: it really sucks for the teams from Maine...Not happy, not happy at all...

I feel your pain -- truly. But the historic Little East / MASCAC ties are too strong. It just took the end of the Interlock and the subsequent fall out to make things fall the way it did.

As to the rink situation....you'll just LOVE Framingham and very few (none???) of the MDC rinks have the facilities to let you do a broadcast.

On the other hand, Plymouth looks like they're going to have a Grade A facility, Fitchburg has done wonders with the Wallace Center, and Salem is, well, Salem. We're in dire need of a renovation, but with the Commonwealth hurting for ca$h, I doubt that it will be coming any time soon. Then add USM and UMB and more than 50% of the league owns/controls their own rinks.

Maybe a rising lake floats all boats and the "Big 5" will force the remaining MASCAC schools to raise the profile of their programs. Right now the MASCAC can not promote hockey even if they were handed a manual. Press guide? Program? Game notes? Fuggettaboutit. Just print out collegehockeystats and that's all anyone gets.

Salem State's SID got let go with budget cuts before last season, but even still, they never turned out a quality info/press product for any of their sports. I don't recall any other MASCAC school turning out a press / media / fan guide for any of their hockey programs.

The Little East schools seem a bit better.

 

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I think the essence of your plan is:

1. Take NU, Castleton, and Skidmore and put them into an 8 team ECAC W.

2. Let USM and UMB go to MASCAC which would have 9 teams if that's what they want to do.

3. Take NEC, UNE, and Babson and send them to the ECAC NE which becomes a 10 team league.

4. Let the DIIers fend for themselves.

The downside of that is
a. We (NU) fall into Pool B for two years while we wait the ECAC W to get an autobid.
b. The ECAC NE may not want to accept NEC and Babson (UNE they will take)

If the ECAC NE doesn't want NEC and Babson, guess what - we are back to the 10 team super conference again.

I think the ECAC NE would want NEC and Babson, but probably not want UNE. They want to be more competitive NOT LESS competitive! They wopuld probably want Norwich as well!!

 

[hawk]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I feel your pain -- truly. But the historic Little East / MASCAC ties are too strong. It just took the end of the Interlock and the subsequent fall out to make things fall the way it did.

As to the rink situation....you'll just LOVE Framingham and very few (none???) of the MDC rinks have the facilities to let you do a broadcast.

On the other hand, Plymouth looks like they're going to have a Grade A facility, Fitchburg has done wonders with the Wallace Center, and Salem is, well, Salem. We're in dire need of a renovation, but with the Commonwealth hurting for ca$h, I doubt that it will be coming any time soon. Then add USM and UMB and more than 50% of the league owns/controls their own rinks.

Maybe a rising lake floats all boats and the "Big 5" will force the remaining MASCAC schools to raise the profile of their programs. Right now the MASCAC can not promote hockey even if they were handed a manual. Press guide? Program? Game notes? Fuggettaboutit. Just print out collegehockeystats and that's all anyone gets.

Salem State's SID got let go with budget cuts before last season, but even still, they never turned out a quality info/press product for any of their sports. I don't recall any other MASCAC school turning out a press / media / fan guide for any of their hockey programs.

The Little East schools seem a bit better.

I still remember talking to a Salem player the last time they played Norwich and he claimed the team wanted to stay in the interlock and not break away to the Mass league. Water over the dam but if Salem was still in the East along with all the other teams I think you could have a quality league by maybe droping the D2's and adding Wentworth and Curry. However as more and more pieces were removed from the ECAC East the best option for the majority of the teams was a move with the West. I still waiting for the NESCAC to anounce the breakup; you would think that out of respect for the ECAC East teams a prompt answer would be forthcoming. I am must be missing something in analyzing the situation. Also the D1 Ivy league plays in a mixed league with teams like St. Lawrence for the good of the game, why cann't the NESCAC do the same thing. The Ivy league education standards are just as high as the NESCAC in my opinion,

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I think the ECAC NE would want NEC and Babson, but probably not want UNE. They want to be more competitive NOT LESS competitive! They wopuld probably want Norwich as well!!

UNE will be competitive in short order and I am not a fan of the team and I hate the rink...It would be a mistake if the ECAC NE does not take UNE...

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I feel your pain -- truly. But the historic Little East / MASCAC ties are too strong. It just took the end of the Interlock and the subsequent fall out to make things fall the way it did.

As to the rink situation....you'll just LOVE Framingham and very few (none???) of the MDC rinks have the facilities to let you do a broadcast.

On the other hand, Plymouth looks like they're going to have a Grade A facility, Fitchburg has done wonders with the Wallace Center, and Salem is, well, Salem. We're in dire need of a renovation, but with the Commonwealth hurting for ca$h, I doubt that it will be coming any time soon. Then add USM and UMB and more than 50% of the league owns/controls their own rinks.

Maybe a rising lake floats all boats and the "Big 5" will force the remaining MASCAC schools to raise the profile of their programs. Right now the MASCAC can not promote hockey even if they were handed a manual. Press guide? Program? Game notes? Fuggettaboutit. Just print out collegehockeystats and that's all anyone gets.

Salem State's SID got let go with budget cuts before last season, but even still, they never turned out a quality info/press product for any of their sports. I don't recall any other MASCAC school turning out a press / media / fan guide for any of their hockey programs.

The Little East schools seem a bit better.

I just want to make sure everybody knows I am NOT part of the USM hockey radio/webcast crew...I like them but would never want to be confused with them...

I have always liked Salem's rink...Not sure why

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I don't think USM was forced to do anything, they did it on their own if in fact that is what is happening. We should know something in the next week or so as to what is going to shake out of this.

I think USM's hand was forced into joining the MASCAC...There is NO way they will pay for the travel of the "Super League"...So, that leaves them with one choice: join the MASCAC...I hate saying when I don't know what happened but I am guessing this is pretty much how it happened....I find out what's going on soon enough....

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I think USM's hand was forced into joining the MASCAC...There is NO way they will pay for the travel of the "Super League"...So, that leaves them with one choice: join the MASCAC...I hate saying when I don't know what happened but I am guessing this is pretty much how it happened....I find out what's going on soon enough....

Actually, they - and all the affected teams - could choose the route of this team

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I don't think USM was forced to do anything, they did it on their own if in fact that is what is happening. We should know something in the next week or so as to what is going to shake out of this.

They were forced...Read a little closer...The whole D III hockey world revolves around VT though... We should know this... But you are right we will know more soon...

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Correction it revolves around the NESCAC. Nothing would have happened if they had not broken the interlock....so blame the brother.

They were forced...Read a little closer...The whole D III hockey world revolves around VT though... We should know this... But you are right we will know more soon...

 

[hockeyfan77]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Correction it revolves around the NESCAC. Nothing would have happened if they had not broken the interlock....so blame the brother.

I do blame the NESCAC, 100%...I am totally lost by their inclusive thinking... Thinking that they are so much better than everybody else is pretty much the crux of what is wrong with this country: power in the hands of the few and no drippings left for the masses(sorry for the political ramble)...As for the brother, I have meet him a couple of times(not for long) but he seems like a nice enough guy... I have a ton of respect for the other brother as he cut me a ton a slack and gave me a chance when I really didn't deserve one... The one thing I am is loyal to people who treat me well so I have a ton of respect for him...I am still waiting to hear from him though!!!! If he is reading this, give me a call, I have a couple of questions!!!!

 

[nefan]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

UNE will be competitive in short order and I am not a fan of the team and I hate the rink...It would be a mistake if the ECAC NE does not take UNE...

I think it is going to be extremely hard for the ECAC East to pry Wentworth and Curry from the Northeast. As i said before, they have a very good situation in the Northeast. Teams that are not going anywhere and the AQ to go along with 11 NC games. If the East and West don't get together look for some of the easts to jump to the MASCAC, Northeast, and West.

 

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Let's see how this will shake out for 11/12 (I think)

NESCAC (10): No change. 24 games, 18 conference, 6 OOC
SUNYAC(9): No change. 25/16/9
MASCAC(9): Up 2 (USM, UMB). 25/18/7
ECAC-NE(9): Up 1 (UNE). 25/18/7
ECAC-Combo(10): ECAC-W + ECAC-E(less USM, UMB, UNE). 25/18/7 (this is otherwise known as the Group of Death)
---------
NE10 (6): Up 2 (StA, StM). 25??/20/5

Pool A: Above 5 plus NCHA, MCHA, and MIAC
Pool B: gone
Pool C: 3 teams

Further discussion on Pool C: It seems unlikely that the MCHA, MASCAC and the NE will generate enough oomph for Pool C consideration. So that leaves the usual suspects for the 3 spots. ASSuming one Pool C goes west, we now have the SUNYAC, NESCAC, and ECAC-Combo going for 2 spots. Somebody(ies) is not going to be happy come selection Sundae.

And we think Webb was PO'd last year? We could see / read some interesting pyrotechnics from the East in 3/12.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

In my world, I would make Skidmore an associate member of the SUNYAC to create a balanced 10 team league and supply a travel partner for Morrisville (NCAA Mileage: 117 miles - 29 more than Plattsburgh-Potsdam).

 

[Matthew Webb]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

And we think Webb was PO'd last year? We could see / read some interesting pyrotechnics from the East in 3/12.

To be fair, I was fine with the selections. It is the asinine travel restrictions and lack of anything resembling legitimate seeding that were a travesty last year and will continue to be in the future. Same thing every year, though the teabag tends to fall in a different cup each time around. Come March someone will no doubt get to, yet again, experience a real bohica moment.

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

In my world, I would make Skidmore an associate member of the SUNYAC to create a balanced 10 team league and supply a travel partner for Morrisville (NCAA Mileage: 117 miles - 29 more than Plattsburgh-Potsdam).

Yes, but they'll already have an even 10 if UNE leaves for the ECAC-NE. Taking Skidmore to make the SUNYAC 10 would leave the ECAC-whatevertheycallit with 9, putting them where the SUNYAC is now... So, from a SUNYAC point of view that might be a good idea, but it's not from the other side.

And believe me, if you tell UNE that they have to travel to Elmira every year, they're out of there in a heartbeat.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Yes, but they'll already have an even 10 if UNE leaves for the ECAC-NE. Taking Skidmore to make the SUNYAC 10 would leave the ECAC-whatevertheycallit with 9, putting them where the SUNYAC is now... So, from a SUNYAC point of view that might be a good idea, but it's not from the other side.

And believe me, if you tell UNE that they have to travel to Elmira every year, they're out of there in a heartbeat.

I agree totally with you, and that allowing Skidmore into the SUNYAC as an associate member is less logical. Being illogical appears to be half the battle in securing change when the NCAA is involved, but certainly an amount of ridiculousness is also required, so if it is far fetched enough it could happen

 

[The Real Georgia Peach]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Its been said earlier that a league has a two year wait to get an NCAA slot once they get the requisite number of teams. In the case of a re-alignment, such as the ECAC-E/W/NE scenarios, can the NCAA waive this requirement? And why wouldn't they?

 

[joecct]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Its been said earlier that a league has a two year wait to get an NCAA slot once they get the requisite number of teams. In the case of a re-alignment, such as the ECAC-E/W/NE scenarios, can the NCAA waive this requirement? And why wouldn't they?

As long as your "core group" (which I think is 5 members) does not change, then you're not a new conference per se. Since the ECAC-E (AQ) would keep 5 current members and then add 5 new ones, the AQ should stay. If they rename the conference at the same time to the ECAC-Nomad that's just a rebranding issue which the NCAA has no say.

In an interesting note, coaches from the ECAC-E, ECAC-W, and the NESCAC will be down here this week at a hockey camp. I may drop in and see what the flies on the walls overheard....