Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

. . . . The Old East was a big sprawling league that included most of the current members, several DI and DII programs, and all of the NESCAC (except Tufts)

At least that's how my memory says it worked

In addition to Tufts, four other NESCACs--Trinity, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan--spent quite a bit of time in the ECAC North/South--before joining the ECAC East. Amherst, for example, was the ECAC North/South champion in 1992 so we know it didn't move to the ECAC East until some time after 1992 . . .

 

[3rdLiner]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

In addition to Tufts, four other NESCACs--Trinity, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan--spent quite a bit of time in the ECAC North/South--before joining the ECAC East. Amherst, for example, was the ECAC North/South champion in 1992 so we know it didn't move to the ECAC East until some time after 1992 . . .

So what you are saying is that the NESCAC which often talks about tradition and history, is actually ignoring their own history and tradition by breaking the interlock?

You might not have said that, but I am.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

So what you are saying is that the NESCAC which often talks about tradition and history, is actually ignoring their own history and tradition by breaking the interlock?

You might not have said that, but I am.

Yes and no - the Interlock was created primarily to preserve the long-standing rivalries that were created within the once much larger ECAC East but that would really be true only for the 50% of NESCAC members--Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Colby, and Williams--that were long-time members of the ECAC East. Tufts was never a member of the ECAC East and the other four NESCAC schools--Amherst, Trinity, Conn College, and Wesleyan--had very short tenures in the ECAC East so 50% of the NESCAC members wouldn't be giving up much in the way of "tradition" in breaking away from the Interlock.

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I wouldn't call close to 20 years a short tenure. I think people don't realize that if you can imagine the NESCAC the East as one giant super league including teams like UConn, Holy Cross, AIC and games against St. A's and St. Mikes counted. Many times in state school rivalries for DIII teams would carry
over into Div. 1 so you would see games like Elmira vs. St. Lawrence, or Norwich vs. UVM, or Plattsburgh vs. Clarkson. There were many good teams that probably have been forgotten because they didn't make the playoffs or they made the playoffs and didn't get into the NCAA's. Back then the bulk of kids were from a talented pool of high schools and the Eastern Jr. Hockey League was considered a league for kids who either were not good enough to play high school hockey or didn't have high school hockey in their towns or didn't get picked up anyway to play college hockey so played a few extra years.

Look how hockey has changed where it is the only collegiate sport that allows a kid to play extra years without consequence after he graduates high school without losing athletic eligiblity.

Yes the NESCAC has seperated and have ignored history and it seems to have created some sort of Chaos in the East now and could jeopardize one of their precious bids.

It seems as though that the ECAC East hinges on a few programs to either remain a conference or fall apart.

Yes and no - the Interlock was created primarily to preserve the long-standing rivalries that were created within the once much larger ECAC East but that would really be true only for the 50% of NESCAC members--Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Colby, and Williams--that were long-time members of the ECAC East. Tufts was never a member of the ECAC East and the other four NESCAC schools--Amherst, Trinity, Conn College, and Wesleyan--had very short tenures in the ECAC East so 50% of the NESCAC members wouldn't be giving up much in the way of "tradition" in breaking away from the Interlock.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I wouldn't call close to 20 years a short tenure. I think people don't realize that if you can imagine the NESCAC the East as one giant super league including teams like UConn, Holy Cross, AIC and games against St. A's and St. Mikes counted. . . .

It's not 20 years - Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, etc. played in the ECAC East for 5 or 6 years before the NESCAC became a separate playing conference in the 1999/2000 season. The point is none of the 4 late joiners to the ECAC East (plus Tufts) had long-standing rivalries with the core ECAC East teams when the NESCAC became a separate playing conference so there wasn't much in the way of "tradition" at stake for them in preserving established rivalries through the Interlock. In contrast, the other five NESCAC teams--Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams--played in the ECAC East for some 40 years before the NESCAC was formed so probably would have had a stronger interest in seeing the ECAC East live on in a modified form in the interlock. So, yes, there is a big difference between 5/6 years of history and 40 years of history.

St. Mike's was most definitely not a member of the ECAC East until about 9 or 10 years ago. It's not a core ECAC East team - those would be Norwich, St. Anselm, Babson, NEC, UMass Boston, Salem State, five NESCACs (Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams), and schools that now play D1 hockey and were in and out of the ECAC East at various times (AIC, Merrimack, Holy Cross, UConn, UMass Lowell, Army, Union).

 

[elbojpb]

Brief Hiatus

Brief Hiatus

I haven't been visiting regularly, so sorry for the uninformed question, but did the interlock officially end, or is the vote outcome still conjecture?

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If the NAC sponsored hockey ....

... New England College is a member of the NCAA Division III and sponsors 13 varsity sports. The Pilgrims have been competitive in both their current conference, The Commonwealth Coast Conference (TCCC), and the Eastern College Athletic Conference (ECAC) winning several conference championships and earning 13 NCAA Tournament appearances over the past 11 years.

"The move to the North Atlantic Conference will benefit the New England College student-athletes by providing great competition as well as an emphasis on sportsmanship and citizenship,” said NEC Athletic Director Lori Runksmeier. “We are excited to have been invited into the league and look forward to a long and mutually beneficial partnership."

"New England College is most pleased to be joining the colleague institutions of the North Atlantic Conference,” stated New England College President Michele Perkins. “Not only does the conference allow our student-athletes to establish new athletic relationships, but it will also provide an opportunity to maintain the long and collegial rivalry we have enjoyed with our neighbor Colby-Sawyer College."...

 

[norm1909]

Re: Brief Hiatus

Re: Brief Hiatus

I haven't been visiting regularly, so sorry for the uninformed question, but did the interlock officially end, or is the vote outcome still conjecture?

See John 20:29

 

[d3follower]

Re: Brief Hiatus

Re: Brief Hiatus

I haven't been visiting regularly, so sorry for the uninformed question, but did the interlock officially end, or is the vote outcome still conjecture?

Without benefit of any hard info whatsoever, we have collectively accepted the following as reality at various points during the past few weeks:

--the ECAC East-NESCAC interlock will end at the close of the 2010-11 season
--St A and St. Mike's will be booted out of the ECAC East
--USM and UMB will voluntarily move from the ECAC East to the MASCAC
--a super ECAC league will be formed consisting of the current ECAC West members and current ECAC East members Norwich, Castleton, Skidmore, NEC, and Babson
--USM and UMB will not leave the ECAC East
--There will be no super ECAC league

It's likely that the first item is true but even that has not been officially confirmed. As to the rest, who knows how it will actually shake out as it is likely that final decisions have not been made yet . .

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

I never said St. Mikes was a member of the ECAC East just said games against St. A's and St. Mikes since they were D2 counted. St. A's was and 17 and 18 years is close to 20 in my book chief. But what you are stating is that so what you are saying is that because of 4 or 5 schools that didn't have long standing traditions with the other East Schools is the key reason for the seperation?

It's not 20 years - Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, etc. played in the ECAC East for 5 or 6 years before the NESCAC became a separate playing conference in the 1999/2000 season. The point is none of the 4 late joiners to the ECAC East (plus Tufts) had long-standing rivalries with the core ECAC East teams when the NESCAC became a separate playing conference so there wasn't much in the way of "tradition" at stake for them in preserving established rivalries through the Interlock. In contrast, the other five NESCAC teams--Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams--played in the ECAC East for some 40 years before the NESCAC was formed so probably would have had a stronger interest in seeing the ECAC East live on in a modified form in the interlock. So, yes, there is a big difference between 5/6 years of history and 40 years of history.

St. Mike's was most definitely not a member of the ECAC East until about 9 or 10 years ago. It's not a core ECAC East team - those would be Norwich, St. Anselm, Babson, NEC, UMass Boston, Salem State, five NESCACs (Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton, Middlebury, and Williams), and schools that now play D1 hockey and were in and out of the ECAC East at various times (AIC, Merrimack, Holy Cross, UConn, UMass Lowell, Army, Union).

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Brief Hiatus

Re: Brief Hiatus

You forgot to mention where Univ. of New England would go?

Without benefit of any hard info whatsoever, we have collectively accepted the following as reality at various points during the past few weeks:

--the ECAC East-NESCAC interlock will end at the close of the 2010-11 season
--St A and St. Mike's will be booted out of the ECAC East
--USM and UMB will voluntarily move from the ECAC East to the MASCAC
--a super ECAC league will be formed consisting of the current ECAC West members and current ECAC East members Norwich, Castleton, Skidmore, NEC, and Babson
--USM and UMB will not leave the ECAC East
--There will be no super ECAC league

It's likely that the first item is true but even that has not been officially confirmed. As to the rest, who knows how it will actually shake out as it is likely that final decisions have not been made yet . .

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

That would be interesting if the rest of the East teams either joined to become full members or at least associate members. I have just heard a rumor in the last week whether it is definitely true or not that a school in Northern New York has been in discussion with the North Atlantic Conference. So even if UMB and USM defected to leave for the MASCAC the East could continue on with Norwich, Univ. of New England, Babson, Castleton, New England College, Skidmore. If the rumors are true that SUNY Canton mabye moving to DIII status fairly soon link to story that a friend of mine recently sent to me http://www.canton.edu/news/index.php/2010/06/strategic-plan/

then Canton could be the 7th member of the East and save the AQ?

If the NAC sponsored hockey ....

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

That would be interesting if the rest of the East teams either joined to become full members or at least associate members. I have just heard a rumor in the last week whether it is definitely true or not that a school in Northern New York has been in discussion with the North Atlantic Conference.

If we're thinking of the same school in Northern New York, I will say that I've heard from very credible sources that they are planning on joining NCAA as a DIII institution in the next few seasons. Don't know what conference they're looking to join, but that much I can tell you.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If we're thinking of the same school in Northern New York, I will say that I've heard from very credible sources that they are planning on joining NCAA as a DIII institution in the next few seasons. Don't know what conference they're looking to join, but that much I can tell you.

There is also this

Excerpt:

» Migration of the SUNY Canton Kangaroos sports teams to the NCAA Division III.

More here:

Excerpt: (from page 12 of 16)

SUNY Canton will implement a plan to have all athletic programs compete at the NCAA
Division III level by 2016. This will require coordination and collaboration between athletics
and admissions to recruit more athletes to field an increased number of sports teams.
The College will also implement a series of programs aimed at increasing game attendance
and creating a culture where athletics serve as a focal point for campus spirit and pride.

 

[d3follower]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

. . 17 and 18 years is close to 20 in my book chief.

Except their relationship with the ECAC East was very limited at the time the Interlock was formed in 1999 for five of the NESCAC schools - just 5/6 years of playing in the ECAC East and zero in the case of Tufts. That means that fully half of the NESCAC went into the Interlock not to preserve their own long-standing rivalries but to accommodate the other half of the NESCAC in preserving their long-standing rivalries. They just hadn't been involved that long in the ECAC East to be invested in those rivalries . .

what you are saying is that because of 4 or 5 schools that didn't have long standing traditions with the other East Schools is the key reason for the seperation?

Correct - fully half of the NESCAC (Amherst, Conn College, Trinity, Tufts, Wesleyan) had either no history with the ECAC East (Tufts) or a very short history (the other four) at the time the Interlock was formed (it began in the 1999-2000, IIRC). They likely went along with forming the Interlock initially because that was what the other five NESCAC schools wanted. They wouldn't have been wedded to the Interlock on a long-term basis. The NESCAC does operate by supermajority, though, so I would guess that some of the five NESCAC school with long-standing ties to the ECAC East also concluded that the NESCAC was ready to stand on its own. . .

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Or the fact that it hasn't had a champion in a few years. But what a rediculous reason to stop the interlock. I saw quite a few games at Conn. College back in the day and the crowd there was small for most NESCAC games but big for teams like Norwich, Umass Boston, St. A's don't ask me why but teams like Amherst and Wesyleyan there was little to no crowd. Maybe it's just a weird place.

Except their relationship with the ECAC East was very limited at the time the Interlock was formed in 1999 for five of the NESCAC schools - just 5/6 years of playing in the ECAC East and zero in the case of Tufts. That means that fully half of the NESCAC went into the Interlock not to preserve their own long-standing rivalries but to accommodate the other half of the NESCAC in preserving their long-standing rivalries. They just hadn't been involved that long in the ECAC East to be invested in those rivalries . .




Correct - fully half of the NESCAC (Amherst, Conn College, Trinity, Tufts, Wesleyan) had either no history with the ECAC East (Tufts) or a very short history (the other four) at the time the Interlock was formed (it began in the 1999-2000, IIRC). They likely went along with forming the Interlock initially because that was what the other five NESCAC schools wanted. They wouldn't have been wedded to the Interlock on a long-term basis. The NESCAC does operate by supermajority, though, so I would guess that some of the five NESCAC school with long-standing ties to the ECAC East also concluded that the NESCAC was ready to stand on its own. . .

 

[3rdLiner]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

If the NAC sponsored hockey ....

God help us if they do, having see quite a few NAC events, it is an absolute joke. Conferences like the NAC are the reason their should be a D-IV because they do nothing when you look at Conferences like the SUNYAC and NESCAC the NAC is truly 3 letters short in every way possible.

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Are we talking about the conference supporting the sports that they do or in a hockey sense if they sponsored hockey because the SUNYAC used to be part of the ECAC West and the NESCAC was part of the ECAC East which is now the problem why the East and West find themselves in a potential jam. IT is a regional Conferences with VT/ME schools and now a few NH schools. Can't all be the elitists like the NESCAC.

God help us if they do, having see quite a few NAC events, it is an absolute joke. Conferences like the NAC are the reason their should be a D-IV because they do nothing when you look at Conferences like the SUNYAC and NESCAC the NAC is truly 3 letters short in every way possible.

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Well both USM and UMass-Boston have until Aug 1st to make the call as to whether or not they will join the MASCAC or stay in the ECAC East.

 

[cetihcra]

Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???

Well both USM and UMass-Boston have until Aug 1st to make the call as to whether or not they will join the MASCAC or stay in the ECAC East.

Still no official word from the NESCAC? whiskey tango?!

r