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Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
hockeyfan77
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
USM has no interest in leaving for the MASCSC....USM really didn't even give it too much thought, it was more speculation on this board that any real interest on USM 's part...This is a fact
USM has no interest in leaving for the MASCSC....USM really didn't even give it too much thought, it was more speculation on this board that any real interest on USM 's part...This is a fact
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Since only the NE10 is affected, they could easily put forth a change to the D-II bylaws to change the scholarship limits for D-II. They have to do this because of pending NCAA legislation that says that for a National Collegiate Championship each division follows its own rules, not the rules of the division that has the most participants.
I think it could be a multi-division thing that maybe the NE10 AND either the SUNYAC, NESCAC, or MASCAC would have to jointly sponsor in their respective divisions. I'm just not up on the inner workings of the NCAA mind. Maybe Norm or Charlie can chip in on this one.
Since only the NE10 is affected, they could easily put forth a change to the D-II bylaws to change the scholarship limits for D-II. They have to do this because of pending NCAA legislation that says that for a National Collegiate Championship each division follows its own rules, not the rules of the division that has the most participants.
hawkhockey
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
The NE10 teams have been playing without scholarships as a requisite of playing the NESCAC's.If formalizing the no scholarship rule is the only impediment of forming a DII/DIII league then I don't think that would be a problem.Unfortunately, most of the opposition is coming from the West and scholarships are only a part of their,almost unanimous,opposition.
The NE10 teams have been playing without scholarships as a requisite of playing the NESCAC's.If formalizing the no scholarship rule is the only impediment of forming a DII/DIII league then I don't think that would be a problem.Unfortunately, most of the opposition is coming from the West and scholarships are only a part of their,almost unanimous,opposition.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Castleton, Norwich and Skidmore are not going to the west. Get over it. The Division II schools need to reclassify or they get one game each and that's it. Get over that too. The greed of the incestual NESCAC has hurt the East, but the remaining East teams will regroup and be ok. I do think this is the end of the NESCAC run of NCAA championships. (Oh wait that already happened).
The ECAC as an organization is on life support. They don't really do or provide any services to their member schools (except sucky refs). So this meeting in Springfield will prove to be interesting.
Castleton, Norwich and Skidmore are not going to the west. Get over it. The Division II schools need to reclassify or they get one game each and that's it. Get over that too. The greed of the incestual NESCAC has hurt the East, but the remaining East teams will regroup and be ok. I do think this is the end of the NESCAC run of NCAA championships. (Oh wait that already happened).
The ECAC as an organization is on life support. They don't really do or provide any services to their member schools (except sucky refs). So this meeting in Springfield will prove to be interesting.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
The ECAC is a huge organization representing many sports and has never really cared that much about hockey. I believe that is why the D-I ECAC schools separated 10 years ago formed their own version of the ECAC and are now ECACHL or something to that effect. I would not blame any school if they all left the ECAC, but the almighty AQ will keep them there.
As for officials the East has the worst officials by far compared to what I have seen in the SUNYAC, West and D-I it is really bad. If this meeting that is happening can generate better officials and some long term league affiliations it will be a success but that is a lot to ask of disorganized organization like the ECAC.
The ECAC is a huge organization representing many sports and has never really cared that much about hockey. I believe that is why the D-I ECAC schools separated 10 years ago formed their own version of the ECAC and are now ECACHL or something to that effect. I would not blame any school if they all left the ECAC, but the almighty AQ will keep them there.
As for officials the East has the worst officials by far compared to what I have seen in the SUNYAC, West and D-I it is really bad. If this meeting that is happening can generate better officials and some long term league affiliations it will be a success but that is a lot to ask of disorganized organization like the ECAC.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I would guess the quality of NESCAC hockey won't change much with the breakup of the interlock. A number of teams have very strong programs, however, a number of teams as has been noted don't generate much fan interest or crowds for there games. I not sure how playing at Tufts, Williams, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan at there barns once is year is going to effect play. One thing I say about the ECAC East is generally fan support from the games I have gone too has been much greater than to NESCAC games. Go to a NEC, Castleton, or even St. Mike's games and there is quite a lot of fan interest. Middlebury playing in the Primelink with an extra game with Norwich should have an edge in competition.
I would guess the quality of NESCAC hockey won't change much with the breakup of the interlock. A number of teams have very strong programs, however, a number of teams as has been noted don't generate much fan interest or crowds for there games. I not sure how playing at Tufts, Williams, Amherst, Conn College, and Wesleyan at there barns once is year is going to effect play. One thing I say about the ECAC East is generally fan support from the games I have gone too has been much greater than to NESCAC games. Go to a NEC, Castleton, or even St. Mike's games and there is quite a lot of fan interest. Middlebury playing in the Primelink with an extra game with Norwich should have an edge in competition.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I'm not sure Williams deserves to be mentioned with those others. They have a strong program and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they may have one of the higher attendance averages in all of D3.
I'm not sure Williams deserves to be mentioned with those others. They have a strong program and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they may have one of the higher attendance averages in all of D3.
CROSBYNU63
GO CADETS
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I have been to several of their games and it would appear that the numbers just might be reported on the high side
I have been to several of their games and it would appear that the numbers just might be reported on the high side
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
One of those teams will be requested to move to the West along with one NE team. Anyone want to guess?
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I would imagine it would be Skidmore and Western New England. I am fairly certain neither will want to change. I can't see how they could be forced to?
CROSBYNU63
GO CADETS
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
If they try to force them it just might spell the end of the ECAC East. I believe the teams would drop out of the ECAC and form their own league
If they try to force them it just might spell the end of the ECAC East. I believe the teams would drop out of the ECAC and form their own league
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
This Ecac East/NESCAC/Interlock discussion seems to take a lot of twist and turns. Just when you think you got it figured out another curve ball is tossed your way. I can understand the frustration of the ECAC West with lack of teams, however, there doesn't seem to be any interest for the East or Northeast to join that league for a variety of reasons, the main one being travel. I have been following Norwich hockey for a lot of years and I never remember them traveling much into New York other than to play in the Primelink and Plattsburgh and of course the interlock teams. A lot of Norwich fans live in New England and it is much easier to see away games in that region. At many away games there are as many Norwich fans as
home team supporters.
Seems like there will be some conflict at the Ecac meeting since it appears the Ecac East wants to add teams while the Ecac is looking to break teams away. Anyone want to guess at the outcome of the meeting?
This Ecac East/NESCAC/Interlock discussion seems to take a lot of twist and turns. Just when you think you got it figured out another curve ball is tossed your way. I can understand the frustration of the ECAC West with lack of teams, however, there doesn't seem to be any interest for the East or Northeast to join that league for a variety of reasons, the main one being travel. I have been following Norwich hockey for a lot of years and I never remember them traveling much into New York other than to play in the Primelink and Plattsburgh and of course the interlock teams. A lot of Norwich fans live in New England and it is much easier to see away games in that region. At many away games there are as many Norwich fans as
home team supporters.
Seems like there will be some conflict at the Ecac meeting since it appears the Ecac East wants to add teams while the Ecac is looking to break teams away. Anyone want to guess at the outcome of the meeting?
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
My guess, since the ECAC has no authority to force a team to leave or join any particular sub-conference, is that the ECAC-W will get screwed... as usual...
My guess, since the ECAC has no authority to force a team to leave or join any particular sub-conference, is that the ECAC-W will get screwed... as usual...
d3follower
Registered User
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Maybe Skidmore will go to the West. They play a lot of those teams in other sports, but not in hockey so travel may not be an issue for them. I really think they would rather stay in the East and who can blame them? I can't see WNEC going. Their travel in all the other sports is mostly eastbound.My guess, since the ECAC has no authority to force a team to leave or join any particular sub-conference, is that the ECAC-W will get screwed... as usual...
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Maybe so, but the ECAC-W needs at least 2, unless they get Canton... but that's a long-term idea and not guaranteed. The conference need 7 members by 11/12 :-(
Maybe so, but the ECAC-W needs at least 2, unless they get Canton... but that's a long-term idea and not guaranteed. The conference need 7 members by 11/12 :-(
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
I'm sure this has been covered before. SUNYAC is a playing conference so all SUNYACs have to be in the league....correct? You couldn't peel off two of them and put them in the ECAC West to give them the numbers they need?
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Morrisville is the only one that can leave without having to move their entire athletics department. And they had the opportunity to join ECAC-W when the joined DIII, and they passed up that option.
Now, as discussed earlier in (I think) this thread, it would be possible under current SUNYAC bylaws to have the current ECAC-W members apply for associate membership in the SUNYAC (Manhattanville could instead join the ECAC-E if they so choose). It seems pretty obvious that Plattsburgh would vote against it (Emery wants to see the series with Elmira end soon anyway), but the majority of the SUNYAC (including Oneonta and New Paltz) might consider it. But then the schools would have to pay annual dues to the SUNYAC. Would it be worth the investment for the teams? And what if the SUNYAC accepts some, and leaves, let's say, Neumann high and dry? (I suppose they could apply with an "all-or-none" understanding...)
But tell me... do YOU see that as a likely option? The conference constitution says nothing about having to be a SUNY School, or even a school in NY, but in practice 11 out of 11 (counting Morrissville, the only associate member) are SUNY schools.
Morrisville is the only one that can leave without having to move their entire athletics department. And they had the opportunity to join ECAC-W when the joined DIII, and they passed up that option.
Now, as discussed earlier in (I think) this thread, it would be possible under current SUNYAC bylaws to have the current ECAC-W members apply for associate membership in the SUNYAC (Manhattanville could instead join the ECAC-E if they so choose). It seems pretty obvious that Plattsburgh would vote against it (Emery wants to see the series with Elmira end soon anyway), but the majority of the SUNYAC (including Oneonta and New Paltz) might consider it. But then the schools would have to pay annual dues to the SUNYAC. Would it be worth the investment for the teams? And what if the SUNYAC accepts some, and leaves, let's say, Neumann high and dry? (I suppose they could apply with an "all-or-none" understanding...)
But tell me... do YOU see that as a likely option? The conference constitution says nothing about having to be a SUNY School, or even a school in NY, but in practice 11 out of 11 (counting Morrissville, the only associate member) are SUNY schools.
Re: Eastern D-III hockey -- where do we go from here???
Haha...good one CC!
At Williams, Amherst and Wesleyan squeekball is the key winter focus...has been for years. When Midd plays in Amherst I always check the bball schedule as coincident home games with hockey means there is no parking anywhere near campus. Of any of the teams mentioned it is probably Wesleyan (followed by CC) that has shown the most growth in support for the program...not overwhelming by any means, but certainly greater than the other bball schools mentioned. Tufts is always a wild card given the crappy local (MDC??) shrine they are forced to play/practice in. A program will never show groweth in campus support when it's not within walking distance of the campus center.
"Incestuous greed"...great phrase, love it!!
Haha...good one CC!
At Williams, Amherst and Wesleyan squeekball is the key winter focus...has been for years. When Midd plays in Amherst I always check the bball schedule as coincident home games with hockey means there is no parking anywhere near campus. Of any of the teams mentioned it is probably Wesleyan (followed by CC) that has shown the most growth in support for the program...not overwhelming by any means, but certainly greater than the other bball schools mentioned. Tufts is always a wild card given the crappy local (MDC??) shrine they are forced to play/practice in. A program will never show groweth in campus support when it's not within walking distance of the campus center.
"Incestuous greed"...great phrase, love it!!
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