Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I don't think it will hurt college hockey to let Canadian schools into the NCAA, but I don't think it will help anything a whole lot either. I don't think it will have any effect on the CHL, and it will have much less positive effect on the NCAA than getting more American schools to join.

I'm not saying that adding Canadian Schools is better than adding American Schools. I'm saying that adding Canadian Schools doesn't hurt anyone and actually helps some American Programs (along with potentially helping with encouraging American Schools to join programs).

Why would you be against that?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I'll put it this way, if Canadian colleges came into the NCAA, who would it hurt?

The colleges who recruit players in their provinces. I would think that there are some players who live in British Columbia who would rather stay home to go to college at Simon Fraser or UBC than do so at a US school. Now they don't really have that option because of the lower level of play at Canadian colleges.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

The colleges who recruit players in their provinces. I would think that there are some players who live in British Columbia who would rather stay home to go to college at Simon Fraser or UBC than do so at a US school. Now they don't really have that option because of the lower level of play at Canadian colleges.

Understandable, but I see that as at least a net neutral for the sport as a whole. I can certainly envision situations where a kid may chose to play at Manitoba rather than UND, but that kid is still playing college hockey. North Dakota would then have an extra scholarship available to get another kid to play college hockey. While it may be a disadvantage for North Dakota, it would be at least a net neutral, and probably a small positive (another kid getting a college hockey scholarship) for college hockey as a whole.

IMO, the more programs that play college hockey, the better for the sport as a whole.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

They would give the Alaska schools an actual short hop for once...

Well, everything is relative. While that trip would be around half that of most of their other trips (distance-wise), it is still well over 2000 miles from Anchorage or Fairbanks to Vancouver.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I don't see how that would cause them to go belly up. If kids aren't picking NCAA route now, why will having a few NCAA schools in Canada change that?

Major junior hockey in Canada apparently has not fully developed the fan base for hockey teams devoted to developing pro talent. The NCAA sees in Canadian college hockey a vacuum which it can profitably exploit. Some day soon the NCAA and major junior hockey in Canada could seek mutual financial gain through a cooperative operating agreement.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

Well, everything is relative. While that trip would be around half that of most of their other trips (distance-wise), it is still well over 2000 miles from Anchorage or Fairbanks to Vancouver.

Only if you're dumb enough to drive. 1330 miles on a great circle route = less than a 3-hour flight.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Major junior hockey in Canada apparently has not fully developed the fan base for hockey teams devoted to developing pro talent. The NCAA sees in Canadian college hockey a vacuum which it can profitably exploit. Some day soon the NCAA and major junior hockey in Canada could seek mutual financial gain through a cooperative operating agreement.

Yeah. Sorry, I just don't see it. If that were to happen, of course it would be beneficial to college hockey. But I think the chances of NCAA hockey becoming in Canada what it is here are remote and I would prefer the NCAA concentrate their efforts on expanding to other markets in this country.

I think it's a pipe dream to think this will have any effect on the CHL.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I'm not saying that adding Canadian Schools is better than adding American Schools. I'm saying that adding Canadian Schools doesn't hurt anyone and actually helps some American Programs (along with potentially helping with encouraging American Schools to join programs).

Why would you be against that?

I'm not against Canadian schools joining the NCAA. I'd just prefer any expansion to be within this country first. I am having a hard time seeing how adding Canadian schools will motivate any US schools to start programs.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

Understandable, but I see that as at least a net neutral for the sport as a whole. I can certainly envision situations where a kid may chose to play at Manitoba rather than UND, but that kid is still playing college hockey. North Dakota would then have an extra scholarship available to get another kid to play college hockey. While it may be a disadvantage for North Dakota, it would be at least a net neutral, and probably a small positive (another kid getting a college hockey scholarship) for college hockey as a whole.

IMO, the more programs that play college hockey, the better for the sport as a whole.

I agree that it is at least a net neutral for the sports as a whole. A matter of fact, probably even a plus for some schools that recruit in those areas, e.g. the Alaska schools who might lose some recrutis but would gain teams to play that are relatively nearby.

A lot of Eastern schools recruit from the western canadian leagues, but I think it has been a relatively small amount for most recently. Looking at RPI's roster, there are three who played in the BCHL in the last season before college, but one is from NY and one from Ontario; only one is a native BCer. We do also have an Alberta native who played in the AJHL, and one player from Manitoba, but he played in the USHL.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I could see it being considered a gain in the sense more kids get scholarship opportunities. But which kids benefit from that? Probably not American kids. I see Canadian college programs recruiting mainly Canadian kids in their local province. That's not going to help American hockey.

I guess I want to see teams added where it is truly advantageous for American hockey. Which is essentially what NCAA hockey is... American hockey. Yes, NCAA hockey has players from different countries but when people think American hockey, they think the NCAA hockey route. I'd much rather see teams in the U.S. building toward joining the D1 ranks than I would some random Canadian college team looking to find a niche different than its surroundings.

If it did happen, some schools would be hurt worse than others due to the recruiting angle. No doubt if you have a team out in BC, it is going to aim for those top BCHLers and make more difficult on programs that tend to go after those types of kids.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I could see it being considered a gain in the sense more kids get scholarship opportunities. But which kids benefit from that? Probably not American kids. I see Canadian college programs recruiting mainly Canadian kids in their local province. That's not going to help American hockey.

I guess I want to see teams added where it is truly advantageous for American hockey. Which is essentially what NCAA hockey is... American hockey. Yes, NCAA hockey has players from different countries but when people think American hockey, they think the NCAA hockey route. I'd much rather see teams in the U.S. building toward joining the D1 ranks than I would some random Canadian college team looking to find a niche different than its surroundings.

If it did happen, some schools would be hurt worse than others due to the recruiting angle. No doubt if you have a team out in BC, it is going to aim for those top BCHLers and make more difficult on programs that tend to go after those types of kids.

I get the point of wanting US Colleges succeeding before Canadian schools (I completely agree here), but if these Canadian schools gobbled up all the Canadian kids in their local areas, wouldn't that mean that more American kids would then get scholarships from the schools who are "hurt" by losing their normal recruits to the new Canadian Schools? Certainly not every Canadian lost would be replaced with another Canadian. To me, that would be another gain for American hockey, as more U.S. kids would get scholarships at the college level.

I also think there is an angle here to where Northwest schools would be at least somewhat more likely to start up a D-1 program if there are extra programs.

IMO, there is basically no downside to allowing Canadian schools to play D-1 if they want to, and there is somewhat of an upside. Again, I agree that I would rather see U.S. schools start up programs, but I don't see how allowing Canadian schools to play D-1 would have any negative bearing on that happening. IMO, there could very well be a slight push to a school that may otherwise be borderline about joining if there were some nearby Canadian schools in the mix.

If you want to talk about allocating resources for expansion, then I agree, any and all available resources should be used to push U.S. schools to join. However, if Canadian schools want to pay up and go D-1, I'm all for it.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I get the point of wanting US Colleges succeeding before Canadian schools (I completely agree here), but if these Canadian schools gobbled up all the Canadian kids in their local areas, wouldn't that mean that more American kids would then get scholarships from the schools who are "hurt" by losing their normal recruits to the new Canadian Schools? Certainly not every Canadian lost would be replaced with another Canadian. To me, that would be another gain for American hockey, as more U.S. kids would get scholarships at the college level.

I also think there is an angle here to where Northwest schools would be at least somewhat more likely to start up a D-1 program if there are extra programs.

IMO, there is basically no downside to allowing Canadian schools to play D-1 if they want to, and there is somewhat of an upside. Again, I agree that I would rather see U.S. schools start up programs, but I don't see how allowing Canadian schools to play D-1 would have any negative bearing on that happening. IMO, there could very well be a slight push to a school that may otherwise be borderline about joining if there were some nearby Canadian schools in the mix.

If you want to talk about allocating resources for expansion, then I agree, any and all available resources should be used to push U.S. schools to join. However, if Canadian schools want to pay up and go D-1, I'm all for it.

The bolded above is my main point. I don't want to see any resources used to try and get Canadian schools to join. Any and all resources should be focused on getting US schools to join IMO.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

Just a guess, but I suspect more DI American college hockey players come from the Province of Ontario than any other province of Canada. Proof to the contrary would be welcome.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Just a guess, but I suspect more DI American college hockey players come from the Province of Ontario than any other province of Canada. Proof to the contrary would be welcome.

It's an older article, but I'm sure it hasn't changed much.

<a href="http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0607/statesall_0512.htm">http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Features/0607/statesall_0512.htm</a>

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

Well, everything is relative. While that trip would be around half that of most of their other trips (distance-wise), it is still well over 2000 miles from Anchorage or Fairbanks to Vancouver.

Hell, a 2,000 mile plane trip for them is a short hop.

I could see it being considered a gain in the sense more kids get scholarship opportunities. But which kids benefit from that? Probably not American kids. I see Canadian college programs recruiting mainly Canadian kids in their local province. That's not going to help American hockey.

I guess I want to see teams added where it is truly advantageous for American hockey. Which is essentially what NCAA hockey is... American hockey. Yes, NCAA hockey has players from different countries but when people think American hockey, they think the NCAA hockey route. I'd much rather see teams in the U.S. building toward joining the D1 ranks than I would some random Canadian college team looking to find a niche different than its surroundings.

If it did happen, some schools would be hurt worse than others due to the recruiting angle. No doubt if you have a team out in BC, it is going to aim for those top BCHLers and make more difficult on programs that tend to go after those types of kids.

Yeah, you would have Canadian schools out there bringing in more Canadian kids into the NCAA to play for a title. But wouldn't having more of those kids in the NCAA raise the level of play all across the NCAA?? Wouldn't that be a good thing for more hockey players, American or Canadian to see, that the NCAA is where good hockey is played, you can work on your game there, and you could get a pretty good education at the same time out of the deal?? If I'm not mistaken, with Major Junior's, they don't really do much with the educating of guys until they have sorted out that the guy isn't going to be going on to the next level. I think there would be a lot of hockey parents out there that would really lean on their kids to go play college hockey if they felt it gave them a chance to make it to the NHL, and to get a free education at a pretty good school to boot, be it Simon Fraser, UBC, some Northwest USA school or even Alabama Huntsville.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Hell, a 2,000 mile plane trip for them is a short hop.
Yeah, you would have Canadian schools out there bringing in more Canadian kids into the NCAA to play for a title. But wouldn't having more of those kids in the NCAA raise the level of play all across the NCAA?? Wouldn't that be a good thing for more hockey players, American or Canadian to see, that the NCAA is where good hockey is played, you can work on your game there, and you could get a pretty good education at the same time out of the deal?? If I'm not mistaken, with Major Junior's, they don't really do much with the educating of guys until they have sorted out that the guy isn't going to be going on to the next level. I think there would be a lot of hockey parents out there that would really lean on their kids to go play college hockey if they felt it gave them a chance to make it to the NHL, and to get a free education at a pretty good school to boot, be it Simon Fraser, UBC, some Northwest USA school or even Alabama Huntsville.

I still don't see how having NCAA hockey schools in Canada is going to stop kids, even Canadian kids, from going to the CHL instead of NCAA. I think kids that were going to go the CHL route will still go the CHL route.

 

[Beer Pong Horn]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I still don't see how having NCAA hockey schools in Canada is going to stop kids, even Canadian kids, from going to the CHL instead of NCAA. I think kids that were going to go the CHL route will still go the CHL route.

That is the question. Will having a Canadian school that (theoretically) competes on the same level as CHL, QMJHL, OHL et cetera bring in new viewers, and/or take them away from MJ hockey? I doubt it will help much, since Canada is saturated with hockey viewership and Simon Fraser would be playing a lot of American teams (not necessarily the top-flight ones either, no matter the insistence of the WCHA or the NaCHos.)

As much as we hate Gary Bettman for looking south and west for NHL expansion, that's where the great big untapped audience lies, and south of the Great Lakes and west of the Rockies is where college hockey needs to grab toeholds. For that reason, not the MJ question or the fact that the school may recruit players that would otherwise go stateside, it's worth pushing Simon Fraser to start D-1 hockey. The worst that can happen is that they drop back to CIS a few years later. The best would be that SFU and the UA schools would anchor a new western league.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I still don't see how having NCAA hockey schools in Canada is going to stop kids, even Canadian kids, from going to the CHL instead of NCAA. I think kids that were going to go the CHL route will still go the CHL route.

In my opinion, some additional kids will go the NCAA route. There are certainly many kids who do not have the academic ability and/or interest to go to college. They should definitely go to the CHL. IMO, that's a large part of the problem with basketball and football in the NCAA, that kids who only got through high school (perhaps only got through kindergarten) due to athletics end up in college.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I still don't see how having NCAA hockey schools in Canada is going to stop kids, even Canadian kids, from going to the CHL instead of NCAA. I think kids that were going to go the CHL route will still go the CHL route.

They're going to be waiving 4-5 years of a free college education in front of them, with the added bonus of getting to play hockey for their school as well, where they'll pretty much be the Big Man on Campus with the ladies. Are the guys that are pretty much NHL ready going to be going the NCAA route if they could go to school in Canada??? Probably not, but not many of those guys are really going to be looking to go that route anyways. But I would have to think that a lot more of the guys who need a few years of seasoning, finish filling out a little bit more, and perhaps gain a little more life and game experience would jump at that chance to play, and those are the guys that NCAA schools need to go after more anyways, not the guys who are going to be one and gones.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Early speculation of a new NCAA D1 Program...........in Canada????

I'd rather we focus on trying to encourage expansion in the U.S.

Cos so much of that has been happening and looks to continue to happen. Huh?