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Dump Term 2, Part 2: "A third term would be a big shattering."

Handyman said:
I just dont agree. I think if it ever gets to that point Trump just declares Martial Law and sends in the troops to pacify. He won't risk regional battles leading to full on revolution.
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This is where you’re wrong. I mean, you might be right in that he sends in the military. But it would take ten thousand to even hold a moderately large city like Portland.

You don’t simply send in the military to pacify an urban environment unless you nuke it.
 
LynahFan said:
There are 453K troops in the Army; 173K in the Marines (USAF and USN will be useless). That's 1 trooper for every 5 sq miles in the lower 48 (sorry AK and HI - you're on your own), so that' ain't going to work.

But, you say, the cornfields don't need controlling and rural is Red. Fine - but there are 97M people living in cities larger than 100K in the US. If the army + marines have to control those, that's 1 trooper for every 156 civvies.

Edit: but of course, to control those cities, you also really have to control the metro areas. If you go by metro areas down to 100K, that's 292M people, or 466 per trooper.

For all the "power projection" we can do with our fancy war machines and missiles and electronics, the US military is not nearly large enough to be a true occupying power - and that goes for occupying our own country, as well.
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I see Lynah already addressed this lol
 
Oh and let’s not pretend the military is a monolith. They won’t all be willing to march into an American city and start mowing down civilians.

I have no idea the number who will, but it’s nowhere near 100%. It’s not even clear the entire command structure doesn’t implode within a week or two.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
This is where you’re wrong. I mean, you might be right in that he sends in the military. But it would take ten thousand to even hold a moderately large city like Portland.

You don’t simply send in the military to pacify an urban environment unless you nuke it.
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Read my response to Lynah...

And you are way too trusting of the military. Look at what cops and CPB do when given a bit of extra powet and the military is way worse dude. History shows this.
 
Handyman said:
Read my response to Lynah...

And you are way too trusting of the military. Look at what cops and CPB do when given a bit of extra powet and the military is way worse dude. History shows this.
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History also shows there's plenty of times where militaries have rebelled against orders to shoot civilians. There's a reason why the Soviets had to use their own troops in Hungary in 1956 and East Bloc troops in Czechoslovakia in 1968, why the Chinese had to use troops from regions outside of Beijing in 1989.

It's important not to trust the military fully but it's also important to note they won't be fully compliant with Dump.
 
LynahFan said:
There are 453K troops in the Army; 173K in the Marines (USAF and USN will be useless). That's 1 trooper for every 5 sq miles in the lower 48 (sorry AK and HI - you're on your own), so that' ain't going to work.

But, you say, the cornfields don't need controlling and rural is Red. Fine - but there are 97M people living in cities larger than 100K in the US. If the army + marines have to control those, that's 1 trooper for every 156 civvies.

Edit: but of course, to control those cities, you also really have to control the metro areas. If you go by metro areas down to 100K, that's 292M people, or 466 per trooper.

For all the "power projection" we can do with our fancy war machines and missiles and electronics, the US military is not nearly large enough to be a true occupying power - and that goes for occupying our own country, as well.
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Keep in mind, for most of those numbers, a good portion of them are not frontline troops. A good portion of the military is REMFs, logistics, truck drivers, nurses etc. They could probably be used in a pinch but they wouldn't be very effective.

Also, even if you brought literally every deployed military member back to the US (which would create it's own problems, especially in the Middle East and Korea), you still have 5000-10000 troops in Alaska and another 5000-10000 in Hawaii plus equipment.
 
Jimjamesak said:
History also shows there's plenty of times where militaries have rebelled against orders to shoot civilians. There's a reason why the Soviets had to use their own troops in Hungary in 1956 and East Bloc troops in Czechoslovakia in 1968, why the Chinese had to use troops from regions outside of Beijing in 1989.

It's important not to trust the military fully but it's also important to note they won't be fully compliant with Dump.
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Depends how much they purge. Now I will agree with you and dx. A year from now...not a chance in hell. He will have his Wermacht. And then he will start using his private contractors who have zero empathy.

We aren't Russia, their sensibilities and traditions are different than ours. We aren't South Korea, who have spent the last 50 years with the spectre of a madman spitting distance away. American soldiers very rarely show the type of resolve and ability to assess their situation in the way you all think they do. Look at the crimes the soldiers (and their generals) committed in Vietnam or Cambodia. What about the torture and inhumanity during either of the Gulf Wars? Did you see a whole lot of humanity out of the national guardsman at Kent State or who were sent to southern areas to pacify protesters?

When push comes to shove the soldiers will follow orders and if you think the average grunt is going to risk court marshal to protect a bunch of Libs in Portland or San Francisco who are rebelling well...lets just hope we never have to find out which one of us is right.
 
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Jimjamesak said:
It won't even be ICE, there's not even close to enough of them, it'll likely be right wing militias recruited in an unofficial capacity as "National Guard".
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Right Wing Militias are already being deputized by ICE if rumors are true.

You have a lot of faith in the average lazy American to stand up when things get hairy. They can't even be bothered to vote but you think they are going to put up enough resistance so as to overpower its oppressors. I just dont see that. We have been dulled to the point of slothness and the youth, those who should be radicalized to fight, seem to be shifting towards the opressors.
 
ticapnews said:
If you still think there will be meaningful elections in 2026 I have a few real estate opportunities to discuss with you.

View attachment 501
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Good thing we passed that CR a few months back (which they also tried sneaking this in btw) we wouldn't want the pressure to be on the GOP right now. better we just let them skullphuck the whole system so you can campaign on it Chucky.
 
Handyman said:
Depends how much they purge. Now I will agree with you and dx. A year from now...not a chance in hell. He will have his Wermacht. And then he will start using his private contractors who have zero empathy.

We aren't Russia, their sensibilities and traditions are different than ours. We aren't South Korea, who have spent the last 50 years with the spectre of a madman spitting distance away. American soldiers very rarely show the type of resolve and ability to assess their situation in the way you all think they do. Look at the crimes the soldiers (and their generals) committed in Vietnam or Cambodia. What about the torture and inhumanity during either of the Gulf Wars? Did you see a whole lot of humanity out of the national guardsman at Kent State or who were sent to southern areas to pacify protesters?

When push comes to shove the soldiers will follow orders and if you think the average grunt is going to risk court marshal to protect a bunch of Libs in Portland or San Francisco who are rebelling well...lets just hope we never have to find out which one of us is right.
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Kent State

I rest my case. They will follow orders and say they felt threatened or feared for their lives. Like good little tin stars.
 
Handyman said:
Right Wing Militias are already being deputized by ICE if rumors are true.

You have a lot of faith in the average lazy American to stand up when things get hairy. They can't even be bothered to vote but you think they are going to put up enough resistance so as to overpower its oppressors. I just dont see that. We have been dulled to the point of slothness and the youth, those who should be radicalized to fight, seem to be shifting towards the opressors.
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Panem et circenses.
An old Latin phrase that loosely translates to "Pass the chips, the game is on."

Which is probably one reason the Internet is still functioning. People will be too busy playing Candy Crush or doom scrolling to do anything.
 
Handyman said:
What about the torture and inhumanity during either of the Gulf Wars? Did you see a whole lot of humanity out of the national guardsman at Kent State or who were sent to southern areas to pacify protesters?
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The worst of these cases are not experienced, career military. They are weekend warriors or their equivalent. Do you remember the dipshit woman with the naked pyramid of Iraqis in Abu Ghraib? She was some PFC Sarah Huckabee-type yahoo no commander would let near real action; that's why she was rear guard prison latrine duty.

I know many professional army and air force from my work, at all grades, and they are serious as a heart attack about their work. They also have no illusions -- they have seen shit and they have no desire to inflict pain on innocents. Speaking of Vietnam, those are the troops who if they got stuck with a Niedermeyer type officer he would just have himself a tragic accident.
 
Kepler said:
The worst of these cases are not experienced, career military. They are weekend warriors or their equivalent. Do you remember the dipshit woman with the naked pyramid of Iraqis in Abu Ghraib? She was some PFC West Virginia yahoo no commander would let near real action; that's why she was rear guard prison latrine duty.

I know many professional army and air force from my work, at all grades, and they are serious as a heart attack about their work. They also have no illusions -- they have seen shit and they have no desire to inflict pain on innocents. Speaking of Vietnam, those are the troops who if they got stuck with a Niedermeyer type officer he would just have himself a tragic accident.
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This. Kent State was National Guard too.

It’s prudent not to trust the military but I have my doubts that the E-4 mafia, the ones who truly run the military, are itching to shoot civilians.
 
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