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Division 1 Commitments 2014-15

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Call It said:
Everyone likes to hear stories like the above but that is a rare occassion.
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It is somewhat rare, but it is far from unheard of. There are also kids who are highly-recruited coming out of high school whose careers never really pan out for one reason or another. Nothing is guaranteed.

Call It said:
Thus for the majority of players, they would perhaps be better served going D3.
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Maybe some would. But it is a decision that is impossible for those of us without complete knowledge of a particular case to make across the board.

Call It said:
Many of the young ladies that I have talked to after their four years were complete wished they had gone D3. D1 is a grind, a job, a HUGE commitment.
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It is a huge commitment, no doubt. Most of those that I speak to after four years are sad that it is coming to an end rather than regretting the decision. There are some that wish they'd have played more, and others that aren't the biggest fan of a coach. Most tend to see it as an opportunity that won't be coming around again.

Call It said:
I would hope they would want to play! A great number of players in D3 could be great D1 players, perhaps they don't have egos. Or maybe they understand that there is no NHL for women.
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I would never say that a player with a lot of talent that picked D-III made the wrong decision. There can be a multitude of reasons why D-III was the right choice for her. Maybe she didn't want to invest quite as much time in her sport or the school she picked was the best fit scholastically. She may have fallen in love with that school for other reasons, like it was a place where she felt at home. There are likely just as many reasons to pick D-III as there are to pick D-I. In any case, it is a choice that the college-bound player must make, and no one path is going to be right for everyone. Personally, I respect her right to make that decision even if many on here think she made an incorrect choice, especially if it looks wrong in hindsight to others.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Call It said:
Many of the young ladies that I have talked to after their four years were complete wished they had gone D3. D1 is a grind, a job, a HUGE commitment.
Click to expand...

For anyone who considers all the hours she devoted towards playing D1 as a "grind" or a "job" then she did probably make the wrong choice. But if looked at from a purely financial point of view - as a job let's say - then for most it can be quite rewarding, especially for those who wouldn't otherwise quality for a need or academic-based scholarship at a D3 school, whether they play hockey or not. Very ballpark numbers, which obviously will vary greatly by school: a player devotes an average of 4 hours a day, 300 days a year, for 4 years. That would include games, practice time, locker room time, travel, summer work-outs, everything. That would be 1,200 hours per year X 4 = 4,800 total "job hours" for her career. If the cost (tuition, room & board, books, etc.) of attending her chosen school was say $50,000 per year ($200,000 total) her "hockey job" in that instance would pay approximately $42 an hour. I suspect that for most both the cost and hours would be less, but this example gives some idea, again from a pure financial point of view. Fortunately, the vast majority don't see it in these terms, because they actually enjoy most everything that goes into the whole experience; i.e. it's a "fun job"! :)
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

D2D said:
For anyone who considers all the hours she devoted towards playing D1 as a "grind" or a "job" then she did probably make the wrong choice. But if looked at from a purely financial point of view - as a job let's say - then for most it can be quite rewarding, especially for those who wouldn't otherwise quality for a need or academic-based scholarship at a D3 school, whether they play hockey or not. Very ballpark numbers, which obviously will vary greatly by school: a player devotes an average of 4 hours a day, 300 days a year, for 4 years. That would include games, practice time, locker room time, travel, summer work-outs, everything. That would be 1,200 hours per year X 4 = 4,800 total "job hours" for her career. If the cost (tuition, room & board, books, etc.) of attending her chosen school was say $50,000 per year ($200,000 total) her "hockey job" in that instance would pay approximately $42 an hour. I suspect that for most both the cost and hours would be less, but this example gives some idea, again from a pure financial point of view. Fortunately, the vast majority don't see it in these terms, because they actually enjoy most everything that goes into the whole experience; i.e. it's a "fun job"! :)
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Some how we got off topic, which was roster size of 23+ players. I think the above proves my point if you are not very high on the depth chart. If you are not on scholarship, does the above sound fun? IMHO, no. You can only be a college kid once, well sort of :). And the student athlete first job is school.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Call It said:
Some how we got off topic, which was roster size of 23+ players. I think the above proves my point if you are not very high on the depth chart. If you are not on scholarship, does the above sound fun? IMHO, no. You can only be a college kid once, well sort of :). And the student athlete first job is school.
Click to expand...

I happen to share your opinion of playing time vs. lack of playing time, but I think it proves nothing. There are WAY too many factors that go into the decision to make a blanket statement about other kids' decisions solely on playing time. The right decision for one kid could be a horrible decision for another and vice versa.

On the playing time factor, I think the best advice is to say that parents/kids should get a good assessment of where their kid will project on a team (i.e., ask the coach!) and factor that into their decision making process. If you are attending a scholarship school, then be sure to consider how much of an athletic scholarship the coach is offering. A coach can only offer the equivalent of 18 scholarships, so it is usually a good indication of where the coach currently thinks you fit in the plan.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

96IllinoisDad said:
On the playing time factor, I think the best advice is to say that parents/kids should get a good assessment of where their kid will project on a team (i.e., ask the coach!) and factor that into their decision making process. If you are attending a scholarship school, then be sure to consider how much of an athletic scholarship the coach is offering. A coach can only offer the equivalent of 18 scholarships, so it is usually a good indication of where the coach currently thinks you fit in the plan.
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I have advised literally dozens of D1 athletes through the process, and also watched a lot of college hockey over the past 6 years. Unfortunately, coaches don't tend to be particularly forthright in their comments during the recruiting process when they have their "Sales hat" on. I have personal knowledge of a great many situations where players were almost always told during recruiting that they would be first or second liners, with PP and/or PK time from the beginning. Even in many cases where players were offered full rides (by multiple schools), I have seen lots of situations in many schools where excellent players received limited playing time-- throughout their careers despite these assurances. That includes some previous National Team U18 or U22 players. Conversely, there have been more than a few cases where no one expected a player to get much ice based on their abilities and past successes--true D1 bubble players, --and they were heavily used. While there's sometimes an explanation (eg. highly ranked teams, fitness changes, injuries, roster size), just as often there is none, other than a coaches personal peccadilloes unfortunately. I've discovered over the past few years that it can be a bit of a crapshoot, much more than you might think. It doesn't help that most coaches do tend to set up false expectations, and many head coaches have limited knowledge of many of their recruits' past track records in game situations on which to base their playing decisions. Players can be pigeon-holed early on one way or another and unfortunately often don't ever get much opportunity to prove themselves if the status quo is working.

The best advice is to choose the best school for you as if hockey was not a key factor. Then, if things don't work out as expected, it makes it far easier to deal with if you are really happy with the rest of your college experience. While coaches assessments always need to be taken with a grain of salt, it can be quite helpful to find out from previous players (including and especially 3rd and 4th liners) their experience at the school and in the hockey program relative to their expectations going in. Also to try to gauge a particular coaches' tendencies and reputation to overpromise and underdeliver--by talking to players in various college programs and club coaches if possible.
 
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Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

If you really want to make a coach squirm as a recruit - ask if you will ever be a healthy scratch. There are still ways for a coach to babble their way out of the question but a mature and determined recruit should press the head coach on this issue. It is really a yes or no answer for a coach who wants to be honest. Nothing is ever in writing of course but the recruit can come back to the coaches during the season and remind the coach she was promised that she would never be a healthy scratch. Pressure coaches on a recruiting visit. Don't let them off the hook without being confrontational.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

OneTimer said:
If you really want to make a coach squirm as a recruit - ask if you will ever be a healthy scratch. There are still ways for a coach to babble their way out of the question but a mature and determined recruit should press the head coach on this issue. It is really a yes or no answer for a coach who wants to be honest. Nothing is ever in writing of course but the recruit can come back to the coaches during the season and remind the coach she was promised that she would never be a healthy scratch. Pressure coaches on a recruiting visit. Don't let them off the hook without being confrontational.
Click to expand...

If a coach is going to be asked and held to a response on a question like that a year or two down the road, then they should also be getting a guarantee of a players best effort at every single second of every single team activity. Anything less than that and the player loses their right to complain if they are held out of a game...and I'm sure everyone has an off day now and then.

Just because a coach makes that promise and then a player ends up a healthy scratch there could be a lot of other factors that play into it. It doesn't necessarily mean the coach "lied" to them in the recruiting process. I'm sure that has happened many times over the years in the past...probably more with certain coaches than others...but it's very possible that a coach sees a recruit fitting in to a certain role and then 12 months, 18 months, however long later when the recruit gets on campus, things have changed. Players in the program have improved more than anticipated, another recruit that the coach maybe didn't expect to get when that conversation occurred has signed on, or maybe the player in question just isn't overly excited or embracing of the role they were handed that would have kept them in the lineup. Maybe even the player in question just isn't as good as the coach thought or is taking longer to adjust to the college game than the coach anticipated. That doesn't make them a liar, it just means that maybe they missed the mark on this player for whatever reason. It happens sometimes. It is way too short sighted to simply brand a coach as a liar if things don't turn out the way you thought they might or the coach thought they might during your recruiting visit.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

OneTimer said:
If you really want to make a coach squirm as a recruit - ask if you will ever be a healthy scratch. There are still ways for a coach to babble their way out of the question but a mature and determined recruit should press the head coach on this issue. It is really a yes or no answer for a coach who wants to be honest. Nothing is ever in writing of course but the recruit can come back to the coaches during the season and remind the coach she was promised that she would never be a healthy scratch. Pressure coaches on a recruiting visit. Don't let them off the hook without being confrontational.
Click to expand...

Seems too cynical and adversarial of an approach.....what rapport and trust is establish by a gotcha attitude.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

There is a polite way to ask this with a proper tone and body language.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

WIrinkrat said:
If a coach is going to be asked and held to a response on a question like that a year or two down the road, then they should also be getting a guarantee of a players best effort at every single second of every single team activity. Anything less than that and the player loses their right to complain if they are held out of a game...and I'm sure everyone has an off day now and then.

Just because a coach makes that promise and then a player ends up a healthy scratch there could be a lot of other factors that play into it. It doesn't necessarily mean the coach "lied" to them in the recruiting process. I'm sure that has happened many times over the years in the past...probably more with certain coaches than others...but it's very possible that a coach sees a recruit fitting in to a certain role and then 12 months, 18 months, however long later when the recruit gets on campus, things have changed. Players in the program have improved more than anticipated, another recruit that the coach maybe didn't expect to get when that conversation occurred has signed on, or maybe the player in question just isn't overly excited or embracing of the role they were handed that would have kept them in the lineup. Maybe even the player in question just isn't as good as the coach thought or is taking longer to adjust to the college game than the coach anticipated. That doesn't make them a liar, it just means that maybe they missed the mark on this player for whatever reason. It happens sometimes. It is way too short sighted to simply brand a coach as a liar if things don't turn out the way you thought they might or the coach thought they might during your recruiting visit.
Click to expand...

If a coach is not a liar, when answering the question from the recruit they would certainly give the explanation you just gave to qualify their response. That kind of honesty is often lacking. Recruits and parents should be far more intent on what a coach doesn't say than what they do say.
 
Team first

Team first

No matter what a coach tells a recruit, the young lady would do well to remember throughout that hockey is a team sport. Coaches want to win, and their first obligation will always be to the team, not the individual. Any assurance made to a pre-college player is an estimate, no matter what coach delivered that estimate. If others work harder and improve more, the player in question can be passed on the depth chart. Should a young player be unable to grasp and execute a system, it will be tough to give her minutes. As Trillium said, a school should be picked in large part by factors outside of hockey. So once at that school and on that team, the more important question to the coach may be, "What do I have to do or improve to get more playing time?" Don't expect life to always be fair, because I will promise you that you will find yourself in situations where it is not. Focusing too much on those times only serves to make one unhappy. Look in the mirror, focus on what you can do, because your actions are the only ones that you control. If you are not playing, then look for every opportunity to be the best teammate that you can be, and take your joy out of the success of the team. That is the role of anyone on a team. If that sounds unbearable, then there are many individual sports in which one can compete.

This link was posted in another thread, but the message is something that is good to always keep in mind. Hockey is not about the individual.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...olympians_play_team_first_not_me_first_hockey
 
Re: Team first

Re: Team first

ARM said:
No matter what a coach tells a recruit, the young lady would do well to remember throughout that hockey is a team sport. Coaches want to win, and their first obligation will always be to the team, not the individual. Any assurance made to a pre-college player is an estimate, no matter what coach delivered that estimate. If others work harder and improve more, the player in question can be passed on the depth chart. Should a young player be unable to grasp and execute a system, it will be tough to give her minutes. As Trillium said, a school should be picked in large part by factors outside of hockey. So once at that school and on that team, the more important question to the coach may be, "What do I have to do or improve to get more playing time?" Don't expect life to always be fair, because I will promise you that you will find yourself in situations where it is not. Focusing too much on those times only serves to make one unhappy. Look in the mirror, focus on what you can do, because your actions are the only ones that you control. If you are not playing, then look for every opportunity to be the best teammate that you can be, and take your joy out of the success of the team. That is the role of anyone on a team. If that sounds unbearable, then there are many individual sports in which one can compete.

This link was posted in another thread, but the message is something that is good to always keep in mind. Hockey is not about the individual.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...olympians_play_team_first_not_me_first_hockey
Click to expand...

I had just read this article and then was reading the post asking "if you really want to make a coach squirm as a recruit". Taking that approach would not create a positive impression with the coach especially when he/she is charged with making decisions based on what is best for the TEAM first and foremost and not said recruits individual playing time guarantee.
 
Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Re: How many kids does it take to make a hockey team

Trillium said:
The best advice is to choose the best school for you as if hockey was not a key factor. Then, if things don't work out as expected, it makes it far easier to deal with if you are really happy with the rest of your college experience. While coaches assessments always need to be taken with a grain of salt, it can be quite helpful to find out from previous players (including and especially 3rd and 4th liners) their experience at the school and in the hockey program relative to their expectations going in. Also to try to gauge a particular coaches' tendencies and reputation to overpromise and underdeliver--by talking to players in various college programs and club coaches if possible.
Click to expand...

YES Trillium...parents, remember, the quote is STUDENT-ATHLETE and not the other way around. Pick a school for the school's sake - it fits in with what your player's aspirations are post college, your kiddo will be happy attending under the "broken leg test", etc. In the end, the College Experience and what they take away from it with a degree is what matters. If a player chooses a school solely for the hockey above academics, more than likely they will be disillusioned and want to transfer, which may put your player (and you, if it's about finances) face to face with consequences such as losing out on class hours earned due to a transfer, lost time playing and more money spent because of eligibility limits (you know, that 5th year), yada yada. It is good fortune that a kid loves a school, loves the hockey program, and graduates in four years with an undergraduate degree. Sometimes, holding onto a program that isn't a good fit just because your player wanted to play hockey first before looking at the entire reason to go to college, which is to earn a degree, can cost a lot more in the end - scholarship money lost can be therapy money saved if your kiddo is unhappy for the majority of their college years staying in a program that isn't right for that player! ;)

And yes, this is way off topic...this could have been a separate thread altogether!
 
Re: Division 1 Commitments 2014-15

Hux said:
Player....................Position ...............(Current Team) .......................Hometown
(Based on reliable info, but to paraphrase Yogi, "It ain't official 'til it's official.")
* Denotes commitments are official, as announced by the school

Cornell
Morgan McKim ...................F .............................(SSM) ........................................Mars, PA
Sydnee Saracco.................D ......................(Chicago Mission) ........................Countryside, IL
Click to expand...

It appears that both of the above listed recruits for Cornell have missed a good number of games this season due to injury. Does anyone know how likely they are to be healthy for their freshman year at Cornell?

I know Cornell has a second defenseman and goalie not yet listed here committed for next year. Does anyone know if Cornell has any other forwards committed for next year?
 
Re: Division 1 Commitments 2014-15

Living in the Minneapolis area I had a chance to see Morgan McKim play at Shattuck St. Marys over the last few years. She has had some injury trouble over the last couple of years - in and out of the line up. I believe it is some sort of head injury she has been battling this year, and I think she got hurt the first weekend of the season. She hasn't been back yet. I will say however that she is a VERY good player when healthy. When in the line up she is a threat to score on each shift and plays really well in the offensive zone. In the past she had a lot of success when playing on a line with Wellhausen and Boquist. If she comes back this season she will add to the teams depth no doubt!

I have also seen Saracco play with the Chicago Mission. Terrific defenseman that sees the ice as well as anyone! Also runs the power play as well as anyone too!

Cornell will definitely do well with both these players if they are healthy!
 
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Re: Division 1 Commitments 2014-15

Union
Nicole Russell................F.................Honeybaked................Livonia, MI

*per twitter
 
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