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Discussion on Coaches Developing Players (copied from Princeton thread)

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

PrincetonFan said:
Nice that the Tigers got back on the winning track with a win in Cambridge. It's a thick knot in the standings for the third through eighth position now. Should be exciting down the stretch.
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With an 9-1 record in their last 10 games, I'd say they are a team to be watched.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

OnMAA said:
With an 9-1 record in their last 10 games, I'd say they are a team to be watched.
Click to expand...

Not today, they got shellacked by Dartmouth 7-zip. It appears the magic spell on Weber wore off--five goals in under thirty minutes. Good to see that Seguin is able to play again.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Wonderful senior day, with seniors accounting for all 4 goals against RPI (Sherry had three of them, Park the other, her first of the season).

I suspect that Dartmouth beating Clarkson may have doomed Princeton's chances for home ice, though. Princeton is three points back of Dartmouth, one back of Q-Pac for home ice. If we sweep Brown-Yale next weekend, we have to hope that either: Q-Pac loses to either Brown or Yale, or that Dartmouth loses to both Cornell and Colgate. Also, Clarkson isn't totally out of it, since they have three games to play while the other teams have two.

If there are no upsets, it will be 1. Cornell 2. Harvard 3/4. Dartmouth Q-pac (both with 28 points, since they split their season series I don't know how the tie-breaker shakes out) 5. Princeton 6. Clarkson. The battle for the 7 and 8 slots would be impossible to call at this point.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Empty net goal by Mucha, Princeton hangs on, 4-2. Much too close for comfort. If they can solve the Yale goalie tomorrow, they get home ice in the playoffs. I'm heading to New Haven for the game!
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

The trip to New Haven ended up being worthwhile as the Tigers pretty much manhandled the Bulldogs. We wondered whether Yale spent all the gas in the tank against Q-Pac on Friday night, as they looked listless, and given it was Senior Night and they were playing for their season, must have been disappointing to their coaches and fans.

An interesting strategy at game's end: down 4-1, with less than two minutes to go, two Tigers ended up in the box. The Yale coach did not pull his goalie, giving his team a three-skater advantage. Why not? You're down three goals, and your playoff chances are on the line. I would have pulled the goalie and told her to put her feet up. Losing 5-1 isn't much worse than losing 4-1.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Interesting -- Katey Stone had a somewhat similar situation against Cornell the same day, down one in the final two minutes, one (rather than two) opponents in the box, and chose to keep the goalie in net. A potential 6-on-4, though, not 6-on-3; one goal differential, not two.

If the coach were Terry Francona or a similarly computer-oriented baseball manager, I suppose he would rely upon some statistically significant database of 6-on-4 situations when down by two, showing the historical odds of scoring versus being scored against. But there can't possibly be a statistically significant database of 6-on-3 situations!

Back in the 'Seventies or 'Eighties the NHL's tie-breaker algorithm for playoff seeding was based on goals scored in the season, rather than goal differential, and Scotty Bowman, down by a couple, pulled his goalie in the middle of the second period, opting to prevail via goals-per-season rather than via winning the game being played. The Habs held the other team to single digits for the whole game (nine if I recall) and scored about five in the final 30 minutes of 6-on-5 -- but not enough to get the seed they wanted.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Egads, it's getting to be that the playoffs are some weird kind of torture chamber for the Princeton faithful. Tonight they lose on a goal with five seconds to go. Very even and entertaining game, but Kampersal has got to feel like he's cursed. He didn't anger someone with a billy goat once, did he?
 
Pulling the Goalie

Pulling the Goalie

Today SLU pulled their goalie down 4 with 6 minutes to go. Got scored on after about 2 minutes and put a goalie back in. Probably a good idea to get accustomed to 6-on-5 play in this uncharacteristic situation for them (they had previously been tied with Harvard into the 3rd period in one game and until the last 7 seconds of overtime in the other, so they may very well be playing 6-on-5 before the current series is over).

Any other instances of this? Will look at the RPI-Cornell box score to see how soon Cornell pulled their goalie tonight.
 
Re: Pulling the Goalie

Re: Pulling the Goalie

Watson Rink said:
Today SLU pulled their goalie down 4 with 6 minutes to go. Got scored on after about 2 minutes and put a goalie back in. Probably a good idea to get accustomed to 6-on-5 play in this uncharacteristic situation for them (they had previously been tied with Harvard into the 3rd period in one game and until the last 7 seconds of overtime in the other, so they may very well be playing 6-on-5 before the current series is over).

Any other instances of this? Will look at the RPI-Cornell box score to see how soon Cornell pulled their goalie tonight.
Click to expand...

Cornell pulled their goalie at 18:04 after a Timeout. They were on the PP at the time. PP ended at 18:36. They scored at 19:53 with the ET on. I suspect the Timeout late in that PP that started at 16:35 was to rest the first unit and pull the goaler.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Watson Rink said:
Interesting -- Katey Stone had a somewhat similar situation against Cornell the same day, down one in the final two minutes, one (rather than two) opponents in the box, and chose to keep the goalie in net. A potential 6-on-4, though, not 6-on-3; one goal differential, not two.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that Cornell game mattered to Harvard (finishing with home ice vs traveling for the first round of the playoffs) if Katey would have pulled the goalie in that situation and really went for the tying goal. Also, suppose in that SLU game up in Canton, Harvard needed the win or risk dropping from second place to fourth or worse. Would Coach Stone have pulled Bellamy in a tie game to try and win it?

I seem to recall that in '06 we pulled our goalie in the last minute of OT against Clarkson and scored with seven seconds remaining to win it to secure home ice for the first round of the playoffs. I think Jennifer Raimondi got the winner in that game. Had we tied that game, we would have been forced to make a return trip to Potsdam.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Lightning strikes again: today SLU again pulled their goaler down 4 with 6 minutes to go, this time with a PP about to begin. Unlike yesterday, when the 6-on-5 situation made Harvard appropriately conservative about gaining the red line before shooting, today's 6-on-4 situation saw Harvard D's blasting away and eventually a 150-footer went in.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Being a Princeton fan during the playoffs is like being Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. Same thing, over and over. Couldn't beat Vigilanti today, despite numerous chances. All spring and summer I'll be hearing the clang of two shots that hit the post--Butler last night, Laing today, either of which had they gone in would have changed the series.

And this will sound like sour grapes, but the refereeing sucked today. I've been attending college hockey games for over ten years and I can't remember seeing a game where one team was not whistled for one penalty. I know Seely teams are rarely penalized, but this was ridiculous. I saw at least four obvious penalties that weren't called, while Princeton got called for ticky-tack fouls. Very suspicious.

Anyway, sad way for an end to the careers of the class of '11. But this is really a broken record. In the past five years, Princeton has won exactly one playoff game (at Clarkson in 2008), while losing ten. And most of those games were one-goal losses.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

PrincetonFan said:
But this is really a broken record. In the past five years, Princeton has won exactly one playoff game (at Clarkson in 2008), while losing ten. And most of those games were one-goal losses.
Click to expand...
Why is that? Could it be the player's faults five years in a row? It is time to call a spade a spade. The good coaches get their teams ready to play. That is exactly what Seeley did. His team was not more talented, they just wanted it more. It showed in their willingness to battle for every loose puck and never giving up on a play. That comes from the top on down. Face it when the regular season is over so is pretty much the season. That way the pain and disappointment won't be a surprise.After 5 years,even I'm getting tired of this rant. Never the less the truth must be told. PS the 3 penalties is not what ended Princeton's season.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Agree with you both. To paint a more complete picture, it has been 15 years that he has not been capable of winning in the playoffs. For many of those years, I have been cautiously optimistic when the playoffs roll around, only to be disappointed again, and again, and again. It's definitely not the players fault 15 years in a row ! Many top players come to this program, but rarely do they maintain that level of play. Case in point, three years ago, the Romanchuk, Dicesaire, Landry line was dominant, now they have been developed into a very average line. I am surprised that top players continue to choose Princeton, although the luster of Hogwarts may have some influence.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Old Guy said:
Agree with you both. To paint a more complete picture, it has been 15 years that he has not been capable of winning in the playoffs. For many of those years, I have been cautiously optimistic when the playoffs roll around, only to be disappointed again, and again, and again. It's definitely not the players fault 15 years in a row ! Many top players come to this program, but rarely do they maintain that level of play. Case in point, three years ago, the Romanchuk, Dicesaire, Landry line was dominant, now they have been developed into a very average line. I am surprised that top players continue to choose Princeton, although the luster of Hogwarts may have some influence.
Click to expand...

Princeton women's hockey is starting to resemble the Indianapolis Colts football team. Great regular seasons, then failure in the playoffs.

While Princeton has talent, I don't know that I would go so far as to say they get 'many top players'. They usually have two or three great players and then some good to average players that fill out the roster. That might be part of the problem come playoff time. But certainly coaching is a factor. Katey Stone is absolutely fantastic getting her teams ready for the first round. Some coaches just know how to prepare their teams for the 'second season' and this might be Kampersal's achille's heel.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Skate79 said:
Princeton women's hockey is starting to resemble the Indianapolis Colts football team. Great regular seasons, then failure in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

I think that last year (or maybe the year before) I compared Kampersal to the NFL's Marty Schottenheimer, who couldn't win a playoff game to save his life. At least the Colts have won a Super Bowl. Schottenheimer was fired for his bad playoff record (more than once), but I don't see that happening to Kampersal. I have no inside knowledge, but I sense the school is happy with them being a contender almost every year. It's not a prime hockey location and it's a basketball school--they're unlikely to get the blue chip players. In my talks with parents over the years, kids who had their pick of schools came to Princeton because of Kampersal.
 
Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Re: Princeton 2010-2011

Skate79 said:
Princeton women's hockey is starting to resemble the Indianapolis Colts football team. Great regular seasons, then failure in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

This is not a valid Colts comparison. Not even close and not a fair comparison. Colts would often dominate in the regular season winning Divison titles and Conference Top seeds on a regular bases, but often get eliminated early when it really counted. Princeton on the other hand has been finishing, 3rd, 4th, 5th type of positions and then falling in the first round. To me yesterday was hardly an upset, Quinnipiac was ahead of Princeton most of the year in the standings.
 
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