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Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

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Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

He does not make it easy.

“Look, my opposition isn’t to the principle that you should have Medicare. Everybody…health care should be a right in America,” Biden told O’Donnell. “My opposition relates to whether or not A, it’s doable, two, what the cost is and the consequences for the rest of the budget are.”

“How are you going to find $35 trillion dollars over the next ten years without having profound impacts on everything from taxes for middle class and working class people as well as the impact on the rest of the budget?” he asked.
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Translation: "How can I tax the wealthiest people $1 to pay for something which saves everyone $2? I mean by that math we would have a net $1 profit. How can we do that?"

He isn't stupid so it's disingenuous, playing up to the stupid people who buy this "logic" (and of course the current businesses whose profit comes from this inefficiency of health care charges).

I will admit it's a shock coming from an honest appraisal of these issues back to the Same Old Same Old lying of the donor-bought pols.

F-ck. Blue no matter who, everybody. "Biden: Better Than Species Extinction."
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Biden's not wrong on this. If Sanders was successful at selling M4A wouldn't he be the President? Its his signature issue. If he does not in fact get elected President we have to conclude one of the main reasons is people aren't on board with all aspects of M4A, probably related to the cost of it all. I'm not saying it has to be completely paid for but how you raise some of the revenues in any potential law matters. Biden would be disingenuous if he argued that it didn't matter.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

dxmnkd316 said:
I really don’t know if the idea failed. This is an extraordinarily different election. Unlike any other in American history. And never conflate the candidate’s failure with the failure of the idea.

Sanders - or perhaps his followers, I don’t know - failed to deliver that successfully. We know that the most popular government programs are the social welfare programs: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. Even obamacare and the VA to some extent.

The person delivering the message has to be effective or the idea is just a stump speech that’s easily demonized.

Also, keep in mind, the number of crossover republicans voting in the democratic primaries was probably more substantial than we think. I know several people who haven’t voted for a Democrat in their life or even voted in a Republican primary who voted for a Democrat in a primary. That’s not insignificant.
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We won't know until a Young Sanders and/or a Brown Sanders and/or a Chick Sanders catch the torch and hold it high. It could be a Bernie problem, but I don't think so. I think Bernie was, weirdly, a great spokesman for this revolution because he is so obviously sincere. Any other pol you could find some level of hypocrisy but even the bullsh-t houses thing failed to tarnish Sanders' image. He's an honorable man. The Dumpies will of course see him as The Great Satan, and maybe some butthurt Clintonistas will go to their graves trying to pawn off their failure on him, but otherwise... nah, he's a good man who tried his best. He's Obama with a spine.

So if he couldn't sell it then maybe America just aint buying it. And while Sanders' brand isn't 1848 or 1912 it is kinda 1968, and that's f-cking old. If nothing else the state of revolutionary theory has advanced a lot in 50 years. We have a track record of success and quality of life in Scandinavia, and also a history of what to avoid from Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. I'm not sure Sanders fully absorbed and promulgated those advances.

AOC isn't going to be running as Eugene Debs or Che Guevera. She's going to be something brand new in what will be a fully Post-Boomer America. The essentials are the same: take care of people before money. But the messaging and the implementation details are going to be well past Sanders.

So maybe that idea will succeed in America. I sure hope so; the supply side reign of terror either ends or it ends us.
 
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Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Rover said:
Biden's not wrong on this. If Sanders was successful at selling M4A wouldn't he be the President? Its his signature issue. If he does not in fact get elected President we have to conclude one of the main reasons is people aren't on board with all aspects of M4A, probably related to the cost of it all. I'm not saying it has to be completely paid for but how you raise some of the revenues in any potential law matters. Biden would be disingenuous if he argued that it didn't matter.
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But that's not the basis for the question. The question is what if Congress passes it. If Congress passes it then the constituents of Congress want it. Biden is saying he might veto the will of the people in that instance because of Old People Reasons. That's just cowardice. He could have said "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it." He could even get a dig in on Bernie by saying "needless to say if that were to happen we'd have had some dramatic changes in the electorate." Which is Delaware Nice for "ppppppthft."
 
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Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler said:
He does not make it easy.



Translation: "How can I tax the wealthiest people $1 to pay for something which saves everyone $2? I mean by that math we would have a net $1 profit. How can we do that?"

He isn't stupid so it's disingenuous, playing up to the stupid people who buy this "logic" (and of course the current businesses whose profit comes from this inefficiency of health care charges).

I will admit it's a shock coming from an honest appraisal of these issues back to the Same Old Same Old lying of the donor-bought pols.

F-ck. Blue no matter who, everybody. "Biden: Better Than Species Extinction."
Click to expand...

He’s a politician, so we know he says things to get elected.

If Pelosi puts a bill on his desk for universal single payer, he’s not going to veto it.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler said:
We won't know until a Young Sanders and/or a Brown Sanders and/or a Chick Sanders catch the torch and hold it high. It could be a Bernie problem, but I don't think so. I think Bernie was, weirdly, a great spokesman for this revolution because he is so obviously sincere. Any other pol you could find some level of hypocrsy but even the bullsh-t houses thing failed to tarnish Sanders' image. He's an honorable man. The Dumpies will of course see him as The Great Satan, and maybe some butthurt Clintonistas will go to their graves trying to pawn off their failure on him, but otherwise... nah, he's a good man who tried his best. He's Obama with a spine.

So if he couldn't sell it then maybe America just aint buying it. And while Sanders' brand isn't 1848 or 1912 it is kinda 1968, and that's f-cking old. If nothing else the state of revolutionary theory has advanced a lot in 50 years. We have a track record of success and quality of life in Scandinavia, and also a history of what to avoid from Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. I'm not sure Sanders fully absorbed and promulgated those advances.

AOC isn't going to be running as Eugene Debs or Che Guevera. She's going to be something brand new in what will be a fully Post-Boomer America. The essentials are the same: take care of people before money. But the messaging and the implementation details are going to be well past Sanders.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with your characterizations. The one thing he’s not is a great politician. If you want to get political things done, you have to be good at politics.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

dxmnkd316 said:
I don’t disagree with your characterizations. The one thing he’s not is a great politician. If you want to get political things done, you have to be good at politics.
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I dunno. He came within a Clyburn of a major party nomination as a democratic socialist in a time when some of the morons who voted for Reagan were still alive. That's like a black guy nearly winning the Republican nomination in 1904. :p

And that's a pretty good politician.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Jfc

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You can almost hear the brakes locking up in his brain. <a href="https://t.co/4N1UFur623">https://t.co/4N1UFur623</a></p>— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) <a href="https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1237526284508381184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

This election cycle has taught me that people hated Hillary far more than I ever thought.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Bernie in Mississippi got 11% of the Black vote...hell I almost got that :eek:
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

At the end of this week I think we find out where the Left's true priorities lie.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Michigan has been called for Biden with 31% reporting.

So far, Biden has 53%; Sanders has 41%.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Rover said:
I don't think it's a freedom thing Kep but more of the views you're putting forth seem to completely absolve people from personal responsibility.

So, if college is free, no need to bust your @ ss to keep a scholarship. If healthcare is free, no need to stay in shape. If income is free (UBI), no need to be a productive citizen. If prison time is abolished for non-violent crime, no need to police your own behavior. Now you personally most likely believe in personal responsibility which is great, but when the masses see all these democratic socialist proposals the question of is anybody responsible for doing anything creeps up. Might also be why the young aren't turning out - its somebody else's responsibility, and not theirs, to vote Sanders into office to bring about these changes. :eek:
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Rover. I used to weigh 396 lbs. Are you telling me I didn't deserve health care when I was morbidly obese? And by that logic, you're telling me I didn't deserve health care when I weighed 146 and had a hemoglobin level of a mere 6.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Bernie apparently saying the DNC is suppressing the vote...conspiracy theories are the only explanation I guess.
 
MissThundercat said:
Rover. I used to weigh 396 lbs. Are you telling me I didn't deserve health care when I was morbidly obese? And by that logic, you're telling me I didn't deserve health care when I weighed 146 and had a hemoglobin level of a mere 6.
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Rover bought his 3rd Beemer back in January, since when does he care about flyover states? :p
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Big winner tonight is Biden, big loser is Dump. Turnout is enormous, similar to 2018.
 
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