Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

I think if Warren had run with nobody to her left it would have been down to Biden and her. I also think that would have been a split right down the middle of the party that may have gone to the convention.

My perfect world preference was 1. Warren, 2. Sanders, 3. Harris. Biden was somewhere in the high single digits. But again it isn't as if any of these candidates was terrible. We had one loser (Gabbard) and one fraud (Bloomberg) and the rest were fine.

I'd like to think that but I don't. People this cycle were not in the mood for anything new. We'll see if they are next time. Biden needs to pick a great VP cause Lord knows if he can keep it together the next 8 years.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

I'd never underestimate the power of a fellow Terrier, but I don't yet get the sense that she knows how the play the game except on twitter. I'm hopeful she can have an impact but she's not there yet. Getting likeminded people elected is how you gain influence. If anything the crop of Dems elected in 2018 strengthened the Biden/Pelosi wing's hand.

Then maybe you need to pay attention to more than just twitter. Watch the things she says in Congress, look where she shows up that others dont. Look at how unlike most of the trix like crowd she is willing to WORK with the Dem leadership if needed (even behind the scenes) while still ripping them. She may not much like Nancy Pelosi but she also knows to get into leadership it isnt just about being liked, it is about horsetrading and having the power to broker deals.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Then maybe you need to pay attention to more than just twitter. Watch the things she says in Congress, look where she shows up that others dont. Look at how unlike most of the trix like crowd she is willing to WORK with the Dem leadership if needed (even behind the scenes) while still ripping them. She may not much like Nancy Pelosi but she also knows to get into leadership it isnt just about being liked, it is about horsetrading and having the power to broker deals.

This is a very good point.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

I'd like to think that but I don't. People this cycle were not in the mood for anything new. We'll see if they are next time. Biden needs to pick a great VP cause Lord knows if he can keep it together the next 8 years.

It would be nice if Biden picked a young, lefty VP candidate and announced he would only run for 1 term. We don't need an 85 year old president.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

It would be nice if Biden picked a young, lefty VP candidate and announced he would only run for 1 term. We don't need an 85 year old president.

No he should not say he is running for 1 term. No one wants a lame duck. If that is his plan he says so 2 years from now and not before.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

It would be nice if Biden picked a young, lefty VP candidate and announced he would only run for 1 term. We don't need an 85 year old president.

I oppose announcing as a 1-termer. It's been suggested for several Olds (Dole, McCain) and each time it struck me as openly defeatist.

 

[Rover]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Then maybe you need to pay attention to more than just twitter. Watch the things she says in Congress, look where she shows up that others dont. Look at how unlike most of the trix like crowd she is willing to WORK with the Dem leadership if needed (even behind the scenes) while still ripping them. She may not much like Nancy Pelosi but she also knows to get into leadership it isnt just about being liked, it is about horsetrading and having the power to broker deals.

I do pay attention Handy. And not just in a mookie sorta way. What deals has she brokered? Where has she convinced Pelosi to do something that Nancy didn't want to do? I wish the woman the best and love her ability to frame issues but this talk about her being Speaker in 10 years is a bit premature IMHO.

PS - If Kep is agreeing with you, its time to reassess your position.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

I oppose announcing as a 1-termer. It's been suggested for several Olds (Dole, McCain) and each time it struck me as openly defeatist.

I disagree here. I see Biden as a candidate that will appeal to the idea of getting rid of Trump and hopefully getting things back to "normal." He can run on that and then also run on grooming the next president that can push the agenda further left.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

https://t.co/sX05ATSGAi?amp=1

I agree with Johnstone quite a bit here.

 

[Rover]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

I'd like to think that but I don't. People this cycle were not in the mood for anything new. We'll see if they are next time. Biden needs to pick a great VP cause Lord knows if he can keep it together the next 8 years.

This and what I've repeatedly said since the beginning: whoever appeals to black voters in the delegate rich South wins. Lizzy is awesome for more reasons than I can list, but she has scant appeal to these voters who once again have proven decisive. The idea of the uber progressive candidate assembling a coalition of eggheads, white working class voters and non-whites is a myth. Sadly even for the candidate I liked the best.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Surprisingly, it looks like Biden will win all 279 counties in Michigan, Mississippi, and Missouri. That is pretty impressive.

I'll echo what many have already said on here and on TV. The time has come to coalesce behind Biden and now focus all energies on taking down Trump. What would be dramatic and perhaps most effective, would be if Sanders announced at the end of the debate on Sunday that he is suspending his campaign and gives a wholehearted endorsement of Biden.

My hope is he uses the debate to do solidify Biden’s opinions and push policies farther to the left like he did at the convention in 16.

Stuff like “Joe, you support an ACA public add-on, but would you sign a Medicare for all bill if it came across your desk?”

Or, “in the past you’ve held these opinions, can you confirm that those have changed and that you will not support cutting social security and other entitlement benefits?”

As for Bernie dropping out, I want him to at least stay in until next week when Arizona votes just to see how solid his Latinx support is. My guess is Biden momentum takes part of it, but even yesterday he took 55% to 40% in Michigan. Unfortunately none of the other states had enough sampling to get a Latinx distribution.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

It would be nice if Biden picked a young, lefty VP candidate and announced he would only run for 1 term. We don't need an 85 year old president.

Corey Booker?

Young, keep the minority interest, etc. Seems slightly left of Joe.

Early on, he was one of the people I liked, too. But thanks to this crazy system we have, I never got a chance to vote for him.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Also...did you see the voting numbers in Michigan? Compare them to 2016. If this holds for status quo Joe he’ll Defeat Trump and i’ll gladly admit I was wrong and it was Joe knocking Drumpf’s head into the outfield bleachers in November.

Analysis from a very good and smart friend:

So, i begin this post with the disclaimer that i am a Bernie supporter and will be voting for him in April, so if anyone wants to bite my head off when i say this, y'all can save it. Basically, i'm looking for silver linings in my disappointment. And here is that silver lining:

Michigan turnout in the 2016 Democratic primary: 1,180,718
Michigan turnout in the 2020 Democratic primary, 96% reporting: 1,544,205

Votes for Hillary Clinton, 2016: 581,775
Votes for Joe Biden, 2020 (96% reporting): 816,124

Votes for Bernie Sanders, 2016: 598,943
Votes for Bernie Sanders, 2020: 566,439

Michigan General Election Results, 2016:
Donald Trump: 2,279,543
Hillary Clinton: 2,268,839
Difference: Trump +10,704

Joe Biden votes in the 2020 primary vs. Clinton votes in the 2016 primary: 234,349

DISCLAIMER: I am not a pollster and i probably don't know what i'm talking about. Also, these numbers don't factor in the larger number of candidates this time out (although their totals in Michigan last night were minimal). BUT. Biden is increasing turnout over Hillary, especially in the African-American demographic (which is not a monolithic demographic but is a demo nonetheless). This is what is needed to beat Trump. I'm VERY interested in how this will carry over to Wisconsin, as it was Milwaukee largely staying home in 2016 that handed Wisconsin to Trump (and i am not saying that to blame people who stayed home -- if anything it was an indictment of what a bad candidate Hillary was and how terrible her campaign was run).

And look - i'm as bummed as you are that the nomination is likely going to a centrist that won't fight for M4A or a more robust social safety net and who may or may not live through his first term. Every criticism i read of Biden i completely agree with! I'm on your side, Term Bernie! I swear i'm not a Warren supporter that's swinging to Biden. My vote is solidly with Bernie.

But i think Biden's results are disproving the idea that a Biden candidacy automatically = a Trump win in November. It's about states, and it's about electoral votes. I haven't looked at the numbers from the other swing states that Joe needs (Wisconsin and Pennsylvania haven't voted yet), but those numbers up there? They're not great for Bernie, but they're great for getting rid of Trump. If getting rid of Trump at least gets kids out of cages, i'll take it.

It's cold comfort, because at the end of the day, we could be doing so much more, and this election has literally become a contest between boomers who refuse to abdicate power to a more progressive, younger generation, no matter how ****ing old and infirm they get. That SUCKS.

But it looks like Biden can beat Trump. It's miniscule, but it's something, and right now i could use something.

 

[aparch]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

A thread well worth the read...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s the truth...I’m a straight, white, christian, educated American male who makes a ****ton of money. Elections can’t even touch me. **** it, vote for Trump. Or ignore Biden because your favorite Grandpa didn’t get the nod. Go for it. I still win. Trump is a plus for me. 1/</p>— Granite (@oneminutecall) <a href="https://twitter.com/oneminutecall/status/1237690798046695424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

who may or may not live through his first term

doesn't that seem a little silly coming from someone supporting a candidate that had a heart attack on the campaign trail?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Corey Booker?

Young, keep the minority interest, etc. Seems slightly left of Joe.

Early on, he was one of the people I liked, too. But thanks to this crazy system we have, I never got a chance to vote for him.

Gotta have the right plumbing. Name a girl. Doesn't have to be black (wouldn't hurt) or brown (really wouldn't hurt).

Abrams, yes, perfect
Demings, interesting, FL, but completely unknown
Escobar, great symbolism; not sure what else she brings but mmm TX
Gillibrand, f-ck no
Grisham, first Latina governor, powerful connections
Harris, fine
Klobuchar, pass
Raimondo, executive experience, RI is incredibly dirty and she's probably not clean
Warren, I'm down with it but bad for the Senate and OH GOD THE OLDS!!!
Whitmer, I dunno, you guys tell me?

And there's always Oprah.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Gotta have the right plumbing. Name a girl. Doesn't have to be black (wouldn't hurt) or brown (really wouldn't hurt).

Abrams, yes, perfect
Demings, interesting, FL, but completely unknown
Escobar, great symbolism; not sure what else she brings but mmm TX
Gillibrand, f-ck no
Grisham, first Latina governor, powerful connections
Harris, fine
Klobuchar, pass
Raimondo, executive experience, RI is incredibly dirty and she's probably not clean
Warren, I'm down with it but bad for the Senate and OH GOD THE OLDS!!!
Whitmer, I dunno, you guys tell me?

And there's always Oprah.

I agree it should be a woman. I'd also like half the cabinet to be women as well.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

I agree it should be a woman. I'd also like half the cabinet to be women as well.

And every justice. They live longer. Asians. Make it the mookie Federal Judiciary.

 

[Rover]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

And every justice. They live longer. Asians. Make it the mookie Federal Judiciary.

Don't you have to be over 15 years old to serve on the bench?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Gotta have the right plumbing. Name a girl. Doesn't have to be black (wouldn't hurt) or brown (really wouldn't hurt).

Abrams, yes, perfect
Demings, interesting, FL, but completely unknown
Escobar, great symbolism; not sure what else she brings but mmm TX
Gillibrand, f-ck no
Grisham, first Latina governor, powerful connections
Harris, fine
Klobuchar, pass
Raimondo, executive experience, RI is incredibly dirty and she's probably not clean
Warren, I'm down with it but bad for the Senate and OH GOD THE OLDS!!!
Whitmer, I dunno, you guys tell me?

And there's always Oprah.

I was behind Harris before Booker, so I'm `110% behind her.

The problem she'll face after the election is that she can't be a typical VP and do nothing. Too much of a real problem solver.