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Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

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Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Not sure what I would need to work on but ok...

I don't think anyone should ever vote for someone just because they are the nominee of a particular party. Not sure if you meant that for all situations or just here because of the outlier that is Trump.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I, for one, am a Bernie skeptic. I think he's just another careerist who happens to be loud about his agenda, but won't get the results even if he is elected. Bernie Bros do not believe in compromise, and they're going to eviscerate him as a sell-out when he's forced to do it, even if Dems control both houses (unlikely).
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I, for one, am a Bernie skeptic. I think he's just another careerist who happens to be loud about his agenda, but won't get the results even if he is elected. Bernie Bros do not believe in compromise, and they're going to eviscerate him as a sell-out when he's forced to do it, even if Dems control both houses (unlikely).
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If there’s any lesson from the past four years, it’s if Bernie can’t get his agenda passed then his supporters will work OT to try unseat politicians not on board.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

ScoobyDoo said:
Trump can beat anyone in the field. Anyone who thinks otherwise is exactly why he won in the first place.
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Dump can beat and beaten by anyone in the field. Dump's vote is stable: the morons of the country. There are a lot of them, about 63M.

So that leaves getting a nominee who creates enthusiasm. We need to do exactly the opposite of what we did in 2016. Sanders is one such candidate, who generates excitement because of his policies and because he is not beholden to the Democratic forces who, through ineptitude or intentionally, hamstrung economic justice in the US for the last 40 years.

I don't see anybody else capable of creating a movement. I thought Warren was another possible choice but for whatever quirk of mass psychology she just doesn't appeal to Ma and Pa Kettle. So that leaves Sanders.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

ScoobyDoo said:
Trump can beat anyone in the field. Anyone who thinks otherwise is exactly why he won in the first place.
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Agreed, I think some candidates have a better chance than others against him but incumbents always have a decent shot at winning.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

trixR4kids said:
Agreed, I think some candidates have a better chance than others against him
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That's what I am saying. And if the end goal is to get Trump out of office no matter what, that has to be considered.
 
J.D. said:
Oh I know he *can*, I just think there is a certain type of democrat who would have a better chance of beating him than Sanders. Maybe I am underestimating the appeal of Bernie, we'll see.
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And milquetoast is that type of Democrat.


Trump already decimated Jeb. You want that again?
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Kepler said:
Dump can beat and beaten by anyone in the field. Dump's vote is stable: the morons of the country. There are a lot of them, about 63M.

So that leaves getting a nominee who creates enthusiasm. We need to do exactly the opposite of what we did in 2016. Sanders is one such candidate, who generates excitement because of his policies and because he is not beholden to the Democratic forces who, through ineptitude or intentionally, hamstrung economic justice in the US for the last 40 years.

I don't see anybody else capable of creating a movement. I thought Warren was another possible choice but for whatever quirk of mass psychology she just doesn't appeal to Ma and Pa Kettle. So that leaves Sanders.
Click to expand...

At this point, I think I'm basically forced to agree.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Kepler said:
Dump can beat and beaten by anyone in the field. Dump's vote is stable: the morons of the country. There are a lot of them, about 63M.

So that leaves getting a nominee who creates enthusiasm. We need to do exactly the opposite of what we did in 2016. Sanders is one such candidate, who generates excitement because of his policies and because he is not beholden to the Democratic forces who, through ineptitude or intentionally, hamstrung economic justice in the US for the last 40 years.

I don't see anybody else capable of creating a movement. I thought Warren was another possible choice but for whatever quirk of mass psychology she just doesn't appeal to Ma and Pa Kettle. So that leaves Sanders.
Click to expand...
I would also argue he's by far the most likely to turn out non-traditional voters.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Jimjamesak said:
If there’s any lesson from the past four years, it’s if Bernie can’t get his agenda passed then his supporters will work OT to try unseat politicians not on board.
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Which is kind of terrifying. It's one thing to primary some entrenched fossil who needed to call it a career years ago, it's another entirely to throw the baby out with the bath water because your Congresscritter agreed to only 70% of what you wanted in a healthcare deal.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Which is kind of terrifying. It's one thing to primary some entrenched fossil who needed to call it a career years ago, it's another entirely to throw the baby out with the bath water because your Congresscritter agreed to only 70% of what you wanted in a healthcare deal.
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Depends on how hard it is to deprogram people from thinking the government isn't involved in their Social Security or Medicare. Cause if it is, that's socialism by the current definition.
 
rufus said:
And milquetoast is that type of Democrat.


Trump already decimated Jeb. You want that again?
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Jeb probably would have destroyed Hillary with Comeys help.


You guys are living in a bubble. The average democrat and independent voter wants a bland milquetoast democrat to vote for in the general

This is coming from a guy that would like to raise taxes, legalize most drugs and prostitution and end mass incarceration (and focus on addiction treatment and fighting human trafficking), banning the death penalty, cut the military budget in at least half, repeal the second amendment, free community college and trade schools, public option at a minimum, taxing carbon, addressing k-12 funding inequality, etc
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Depends on how hard it is to deprogram people from thinking the government isn't involved in their Social Security or Medicare. Cause if it is, that's socialism by the current definition.
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Is it?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

There's a number of factors at play:
- Is someone who voted for Trump the first time really not going to vote for him the second time? It's not like none of the things he's done were totally unpredictable.
- If someone is at this point motivated to not vote for Trump, given the overwhelming list of reasons not to, is someone going to specifically not vote for a particular Dem candidate? I've said before I'm voting for whoever it is among the remaining 5/6, so I'm clearly not someone who can read every else's mind here.
- Is there a candidate who will push people to the polls to vote against Trump who weren't already going? Again, I'm not the best person to render a verdict here. People say Bernie here; were Bernie voters, being as active and vocal as many are, though, really going to allow a second Trump term if he weren't the nominee.
- Is there a candidate who will have an active GOTO effort, above the usual party efforts? Here's where I think it might get interesting. I think a big part of winning is having an active ground game in the states that matter, with really interested and active volunteers knocking on doors, driving people to the polls, just in general having a noteworthy physical presence. This doesn't mean every person they get to vote for their candidate is as gung-ho as they are, far from it, but in the end a vote is a vote. This is where honestly the Bernie campaign is intriguing, because of all of the candidates they would fit this description the best.
 
Rover said:
Umm...didn't Trump win those states in the 2016 primaries too? ;)

Not sure why people keep falling back on that...
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Because facts matter despite your assertions.

The Dems need better turn out in those states. Those states liked Bernie better. Not exactly Quantum Physics here...
 
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