Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I'm not looking for M4A to solve it. I'm saying we already have wait times in our current system. Trying to scare us with horror stories about wait times under M4A is pointless.

"Do you realize that under M4A people will still die of old age! Surely you don't advocate that, Senator?"

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

and how he will pay for them

he said he doesn't know for sure if his "tax on wall street speculation" will pay for free college tuition

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

I'm not looking for M4A to solve it. I'm saying we already have wait times in our current system. Trying to scare us with horror stories about wait times under M4A is pointless.

is his M4A going to increase reimbursement rates? We have the problem now where rural hospitals are going under because the majority of their clients are medicare/medicaid and the reimbursement rates are not high enough to keep the lights on

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Anyway, I mailed my ballot this morning. Not that it's likely to matter, the way things are looking.

 

[ticapnews]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/VL3vsfW/FB-IMG-1582645570753.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1582645570753" border="0" height="400"></a>

 

[psych]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

is his M4A going to increase reimbursement rates? We have the problem now where rural hospitals are going under because the majority of their clients are medicare/medicaid and the reimbursement rates are not high enough to keep the lights on

While true, rural hospitals are closing faster in states where Medicaid under the ACA wasn't expanded, and hospitals in those states have even offered to foot some of the 10% bill alongside the state government to get it expanded. Something is better than nothing.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...l-hospitals-closing-medicaid-expansion-states

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Case in point - the last time I went to the doctor's office, I had a 4pm appointment and dutifully showed up 10 minutes early. I was taken back 20-25 minutes after the appointment time, and not seen by the doctor until quarter to 5.

that's not what they mean by "wait times", they're talking about how far out you need to schedule an appointment to see a specialist or have imaging done (which can be 3-6 months)

 

[ticapnews]

"Do you realize that under M4A people will still die of old age! Surely you don't advocate that, Senator?"

"Under my plan we'll fund medical research into immortality. Unlike Bloomberg's plan, which is to simply deny care to old people."

(Not making the last part up. You can find video of him saying that)

 

[BassAle]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/VL3vsfW/FB-IMG-1582645570753.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1582645570753" border="0" height="400"></a>

yes, we know he released this information. But when asked recently in an interview if his proposed taxes would raise enough money to cover these programs his answer was basically "I don't know". That answer is a problem, and that's why I said he needs to get his **** together. He should have been able to say something like "free college tuition will cost $X and our studies show that a wall street speculation tax would bring in a minimum of $XX". He can't just **** up the interview and then throw this up on his website when most people will just remember what he said during the interview and won't seek this information out.

by the way, I used the Bernie tax plan calculator, and I'm going to be paying more. I'll have thousands less in take-home pay. I'm still okay voting for him, especially over Trump.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

that's not what they mean by "wait times", they're talking about how far out you need to schedule an appointment to see a specialist or have imaging done (which can be 3-6 months)

Yes, I realize that now. So to further add, my doctor requires a 6 month lead time to schedule an annual physical.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

yes, we know he released this information. But when asked recently in an interview if his proposed taxes would raise enough money to cover these programs his answer was basically "I don't know". That answer is a problem, and that's why I said he needs to get his **** together. He should have been able to say something like "free college tuition will cost $X and our studies show that a wall street speculation tax would bring in a minimum of $XX".

No argument. That's what he should have said.

 

[ticapnews]

yes, we know he released this information.

Apparently not.

He definitely knows what the rough cost of his proposals is. He just doesn't want to say it in public during the campaign

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

All the single payer counties I know have had private plans pop up and fill a demand. That would certainly happen here.

The public health angle - what’s good for everyone- does need to be considered. If our taxes went to things like this instead of the billions to the military and corporate tax breaks, it’s amazing how much we’d save

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/VL3vsfW/FB-IMG-1582645570753.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1582645570753" border="0" height="400"></a>

That's not leading them as far as the water because as Bass pointed out Bernie himself said, "I don't know" if he'd have the funding for all his proposals.

In Bernie's defense (this will hurt a bit) effing Trump claimed Mexico would pay for the wall and none of the orcs blinked. Why is it so hard for Democrats to similarly pull the wool over their eyes if you will? I don't mean that Bernie is anywhere close to being as full of s**t, but rather why does Bernie need to have it 100% covered off to avoid inciting so much opposition from even Democrats? (Not looking for a psychological examination here the question is somewhat rhetorical).

Point being I will vote for Bernie if he gets the nod, but I don't think he can win.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bloomberg has done heroic work on gun control, so give the man his due. If that's your main issue then there's no one with a stronger record. Its similar to Sanders with M4A. Until he started throwing his millions around the NRA had no organized opposition when they'd go after any legislator who opposed them on a gun bill. Even they can't compete with Bloomberg's money. Mind you that doesn't mean we owe him the nomination before someone freaks out.

She hates guns...but it ranks like 5th in order of what she cares about. I would guess she thinks he can beat Trump at his own game but I honestly avoid the subject.

BTW what did poke do?

 

[Chickens@NU]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Here's my issue with the current crop of Dem challengers.

Bernie - Toxic followers. They are the Dems version of Drumpf supporters, and will attack anyone and everyone that doesn't think like them. Not all of Bernie's supporters are toxic, but the Bernie Bros. stain his followers. I feel that if Bernie wins the nomination, he will win, but I also feel he will alienate the moderates and the Right and will keep the country divided. If he looses, the Bernie Bros will ensure that Drumpf will be the first president Impeached twice.

Joe Biden - Too moderate to connect with most dems. I don't think he can connect to most dems. His chance to run and have an impact would have been 4 years ago, not now. I think he's trying to run on Obama's coattails and can't connect with a lot of voters.

Elizabeth Warren - Too far left to connect with the moderates who are in between Drumpf and Dems. I don't think she will have a shot against Drumpf because of his vicious attacks and that she is a woman. I'm not saying a woman can't be president, I just don't think a woman can beat Drumpf because of the hatred and vileness that he brings.

Pete Booty Gig - I think he's my favorite ATM. But as a co-worker of mine points out, a gay white northern democratic male without a southern accent will have no shot with southern voters. The last white male to win the presidency was from Arkansas. I think that is pretty stereo typical but might be the truth for his candidacy. I don't know if if he can connect with the Bernie Bros like Warren or Bernie can.

Amy K. - Very similar to Booty Gig, but I think that the closeness to him works against her. They both are fighting for the midwest votes and I feel that her being female will work against her if she goes against Drumpf. Again, I don't think she can connect with the Bernie bros like Warren but she will have a shot at the female voters that Warren has if Warren falters.

Bloomberg$ - My issue with him was clearly stated during the debate - we can't go from one billionaire DB to another. Trying to buy the presidency. While I think he has the right ideas for someone with his wealth, I don't think he can compete with the con artist.

Tom Styer - Not well known enough and is trying to buy the presidency, (see Bloomberg). I believe that he doesn't have the status to make an impact to win the nomination, but is saying the right things, but not enough about the issues that everyone else is debating. I don't think he can make an impact to win the nomination or the presidency.

Gabbard - She's still in it? Once the other candidates joined the race, support for her plummeted and she doesn't make the impact that can win the nom or the presidency.

Like I said, I currently like Pete, but this race is turning as toxic as the Commander in Tweet, AKA Agent Orange. I long for the days when republicans could back their candidate based on morals, but this current Oompa Loompa has exposed many republicans as greedy frauds or too spineless to stand up for their morals. But what this Commander in Tweet has done to the country, has forced everyone to try and mimic him to beat him, and I feel they will fail if they play that game. I fear what will happen if the Tweeter gets four more years. The divide will grow and the unrest will grow, and the divide will continue.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

JD has a point though. With M4A, its important not to overpromise because the opposition party is 100% butthurt Nazis who will try to exploit any issue to attain power and then will reverse it the first chance they get.

The ACA is currently more popular than its ever been, maybe 55-37 in a recent poll. Think of the long, hard decade long struggle to get to that point. Part of the problem was a succinct but unattainable promise (if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor) that wasn't possible to deliver on.

M4A would not only need a successful implementation but it can't hand out promises such as tica's situation that its not meant to deliver on. Dems also need to be prepared to do a better job selling the benefits post implementation than they did after the ACA got up and running.

All of this.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

All changes will face sabotage by those with a vested interest in seeing them fail. And of course the particular political opposition we face is spectacular in its disregard for the truth and the public welfare. So sure, we have to be mindful of that.

But you don't just give your lunch money to the playground bully because you know otherwise he'll try to beat you up. You get ten friends to circle him and then say, "try it."

That is an awful analogy. If you want M4A to work you need to get the PEOPLE on board. Hell they hated ObamaCare until it was a Hillbilly's Heartbeat away from being taken away. There is a very large segment of the population who think plans like that are bound to fail (not to mention the ones who find them evil) and lets be honest, there is going to plenty of growing pains. It is important that the message be clear and concise and understandable. I am all for dreaming big but in practice you need to make sure you arent offering the moon because if you fall short it is a long way to fall.

We will never have a better chance than right now. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot with arrogance.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

Bernie has cleverly hidden details about his plans on his public website and advertised it heavily. The sneak. However, I have hacked the firewall surrounding the information and present it to you here:

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/VL3vsfW/FB-IMG-1582645570753.jpg" alt="FB-IMG-1582645570753" border="0" height="400"></a>

Ya know...you might do a better job "Saving the Republic" and getting us lazy plebes to help you if you didnt act like Hillary Clinton every time you talked. Christ you are even using her "Its all on the Web Site" schtick.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Democratic Challengers 10: If we stop fighting Nazis, the world will die.

That is an awful analogy. If you want M4A to work you need to get the PEOPLE on board. Hell they hated ObamaCare until it was a Hillbilly's Heartbeat away from being taken away. There is a very large segment of the population who think plans like that are bound to fail (not to mention the ones who find them evil) and lets be honest, there is going to plenty of growing pains. It is important that the message be clear and concise and understandable. I am all for dreaming big but in practice you need to make sure you arent offering the moon because if you fall short it is a long way to fall.

We will never have a better chance than right now. Lets not shoot ourselves in the foot with arrogance.

Not only do you need the people on board, at minimum you need the Senate where you can at least try that bull**** budgeting trick to bypass the filibuster they used for Trump's "healthcare". We've had the people on tougher gun laws for a decade and can't even manage a vote.