USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Dead!!!!
- Thread starter Hammer
- Start date
- Status
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Dead!!!!
Heroin sucks.
Heroin sucks.
Re: Dead!!!!
Sorry, I have sympathy for his family but he is the master of his own demise.
Sorry, I have sympathy for his family but he is the master of his own demise.
Re: Dead!!!!
Completely agree. This is the same reason I don't think alcohol/drug addiction should be classified as a disease. Mental disorder? Sure. But you can quit doing heroin...you can't just stop having AIDS by having a sponsor and going to meetings.
Completely agree. This is the same reason I don't think alcohol/drug addiction should be classified as a disease. Mental disorder? Sure. But you can quit doing heroin...you can't just stop having AIDS by having a sponsor and going to meetings.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Dead!!!!
Being in medicine I have to disagree. It is a disease. There are genetic predispositions and physical markers. Diabetics can be the master of their own demise if they eat poorly, don't take their meds. They have a disease. Just because someone has a disease does not mean they don't own the consequences of not taking care of it. I don't know of anyone who decided it was a great idea to be an addict and set out to be one just as I don't know anyone who set out to be a diabetic. Some people can use substances and stop without a thought. Those with the wrong genes cannot. Some people truly try to stop and fail miserably even with huge effort and multiple tries. Those are the most painful to try to treat
Being in medicine I have to disagree. It is a disease. There are genetic predispositions and physical markers. Diabetics can be the master of their own demise if they eat poorly, don't take their meds. They have a disease. Just because someone has a disease does not mean they don't own the consequences of not taking care of it. I don't know of anyone who decided it was a great idea to be an addict and set out to be one just as I don't know anyone who set out to be a diabetic. Some people can use substances and stop without a thought. Those with the wrong genes cannot. Some people truly try to stop and fail miserably even with huge effort and multiple tries. Those are the most painful to try to treat
Yeah, I was really sad for a few minutes, and then I just got mad at him for the waste of a talented life.
Re: Dead!!!!
It's not sad, regardless of the circumstances, when a very talented person leaves us too soon? Saying so doesn't constitute excusing or condoning drug use, which I don't.
It's not sad, regardless of the circumstances, when a very talented person leaves us too soon? Saying so doesn't constitute excusing or condoning drug use, which I don't.
Last edited:
Re: Dead!!!!
Yeah, he was a talented actor, I'll give you that.
Sorry, but pumping that **** into yourself doesn't get any sympathy from me. I saw enough of that destructive behavior firsthand. My sympathy goes to his kids.
Yeah, he was a talented actor, I'll give you that.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Dead!!!!
Les: Over the years you and I have agreed on most things. The argument as to whether drug addiction is a disease or not is a tough one. Mostly because of the nebulous definition now assigned to the word disease. There are many issues now being covered as diseases, many things being paid for by disability, many things being included into the wastebasket diagnosis of PTSD. I find myself disagreeing with much of it-society and modern times have changed the way much of medicine is practiced. Psychiatrists have added so many new diagnoses to the coding books that i can no longer keep track. I can comment about all of this by spitting out what the books now say, or I can add my own 2¢. There is just no doubt in my mind that ther are addictive personalities. There are some, who for whatever reason, become habitual users of things or actions that most others would not. Is this a disease? It all depends on your definition of disease. There is most certainly something wrong with these individuals and there most certainly is something in need of attention and treatment. But there is a major difference in trying to equate drug addiction(or any addiction) to a disease entity like diabetes or hyperthyroidism. There is a certain amount of choice in becoming an addict-maybe not total free choice-but choice none the less. That cannot be said about the diseases mentioned-or polio, or flu, oreven schizophrenia. I have great trouble in classifying addiction in the same basket as all these other entities.
Your post is fascinating as always-there is some evidence that there is indeed genetic predispositions and physical markers for addiction. But that might also be said for criminal activities too. Does that alone make robbing and murder a disease? This is a complicated issue and much like religion and politics could be argued forever. I stand on the side of those who posted that this was his choice-perhaps there were a myriad of pressures and influences on his making this choice-but a choice he made and lived with and died with. I won't even attempt to tackle the bigger problem as to what is the role of society for these addicts. What responsibility should we have for these people and their actions. That is an emotional exercise that we could talk about for a long time. In any case, we can add him to a long list of talented entertainment personalities who have been responsible for their own demise.
Just a little rant as i am so bored with a lopsided Super bowl.
Les: Over the years you and I have agreed on most things. The argument as to whether drug addiction is a disease or not is a tough one. Mostly because of the nebulous definition now assigned to the word disease. There are many issues now being covered as diseases, many things being paid for by disability, many things being included into the wastebasket diagnosis of PTSD. I find myself disagreeing with much of it-society and modern times have changed the way much of medicine is practiced. Psychiatrists have added so many new diagnoses to the coding books that i can no longer keep track. I can comment about all of this by spitting out what the books now say, or I can add my own 2¢. There is just no doubt in my mind that ther are addictive personalities. There are some, who for whatever reason, become habitual users of things or actions that most others would not. Is this a disease? It all depends on your definition of disease. There is most certainly something wrong with these individuals and there most certainly is something in need of attention and treatment. But there is a major difference in trying to equate drug addiction(or any addiction) to a disease entity like diabetes or hyperthyroidism. There is a certain amount of choice in becoming an addict-maybe not total free choice-but choice none the less. That cannot be said about the diseases mentioned-or polio, or flu, oreven schizophrenia. I have great trouble in classifying addiction in the same basket as all these other entities.
Your post is fascinating as always-there is some evidence that there is indeed genetic predispositions and physical markers for addiction. But that might also be said for criminal activities too. Does that alone make robbing and murder a disease? This is a complicated issue and much like religion and politics could be argued forever. I stand on the side of those who posted that this was his choice-perhaps there were a myriad of pressures and influences on his making this choice-but a choice he made and lived with and died with. I won't even attempt to tackle the bigger problem as to what is the role of society for these addicts. What responsibility should we have for these people and their actions. That is an emotional exercise that we could talk about for a long time. In any case, we can add him to a long list of talented entertainment personalities who have been responsible for their own demise.
Just a little rant as i am so bored with a lopsided Super bowl.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Dead!!!!
I do not feel that a substance addicted person should be given a pass on their behavior. I do think it is sometimes a forgone conclusion that some of these people are screwed at birth, surrounded by people who use with genetic time bomb and 'excellent' role models.
An argument could be made that Type 2 diabetes fits in the same category. Many (not all) are diabetic due to poor lifestyle. Pancreas burns out and insulin resistance increases because the person has been redlining them for usually years. Same for many of the diseases we have now- HTN, CAD, Obesity. Culturally people move to this country and poof their risk increases.
I guess my point is we should hold people accountable but it is not just a choice alone. There are some people who do this stuff and never get burned. Others try it and you might as well do burial planning. If we don't acknowledge the causative factors we aren't going to get very far with stopping it. (well, I am sure you know, we might not get very far anyway)
True.
Went to a few CEU things yrs ago that had some fascinating info Can't quote sources, sorry. If you look at those who are more likely to be addicted their Serotonin and Dopamine levels are very low when compared to normal individuals. If they use a substance they feel like they are normal- it meets the missing need. They do not clear the receptor sites as fast as a 'normal' person. This means they have even lower levels then when they started. After a fairly short period of substance use (alcohol is a substance too) it can take 6 months to reach the previous low levels. This means even after they sober up they feel awful for a long time. Not just craving but all the stuff that goes with messed up Seratonin and Dopamine.
I do not feel that a substance addicted person should be given a pass on their behavior. I do think it is sometimes a forgone conclusion that some of these people are screwed at birth, surrounded by people who use with genetic time bomb and 'excellent' role models.
An argument could be made that Type 2 diabetes fits in the same category. Many (not all) are diabetic due to poor lifestyle. Pancreas burns out and insulin resistance increases because the person has been redlining them for usually years. Same for many of the diseases we have now- HTN, CAD, Obesity. Culturally people move to this country and poof their risk increases.
I guess my point is we should hold people accountable but it is not just a choice alone. There are some people who do this stuff and never get burned. Others try it and you might as well do burial planning. If we don't acknowledge the causative factors we aren't going to get very far with stopping it. (well, I am sure you know, we might not get very far anyway)
Last edited:
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: Dead!!!!
It upsets me that PSH is gone. I really enjoyed his performances throughout his now too-short career. The news that it was from an overdose is bothersome. While it may make me think less of him, it won't make me forget the absolute brilliance he was capable of.
RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman. You'll be missed.
It upsets me that PSH is gone. I really enjoyed his performances throughout his now too-short career. The news that it was from an overdose is bothersome. While it may make me think less of him, it won't make me forget the absolute brilliance he was capable of.
RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman. You'll be missed.
Siouxfaninseattle
Fighting Sioux Fan Forever
Re: Dead!!!!
Anyone that sticks heroin in their arm knows what the consequences will or can be. They don't deserve any sympathy.
Anyone that sticks heroin in their arm knows what the consequences will or can be. They don't deserve any sympathy.
leswp1
Well-known member
Re: Dead!!!!
In my experience, admittedly anecdotal, they start doing this after they started on something socially acceptable that impaired their judgment. I don't think I have ever met someone who started using heroin without having tried other stuff first. Many of them successfully chipped around and did not think they were addicted to other substances so thought the heroin risk is overblown.
Almost all of the addicts of alcohol and other drugs I have seen (and I would hazard to guess this is the case for most) start in their teens or in college where the culture is frequently very supportive of risk taking behavior. With the exception of a few people who started with pain meds do to chronic pain, most of the people I have in my practice started when they were teens. Some teens have real issues with being able to comprehend consequence (physiologically) which is why they do really dumb things like drive too fast, drink, snort all sorts of things, take prescription drugs and have unprotected sex. In our town they don't really educate the kids about alcohol and other drugs until late in HS (seems unbelievable but it is true. Yep, our town is the brightest light bulb on the tree). By then these kids are experimenting all over the place. I have had more than one kid say "They told me pot was really dangerous but all my friends were doing it and nothing happened to them. I just thought they were lying about that too." I went to the wake of one of those kids, now dead of an OD. She realized way too late they weren't lying. Watching her struggle with trying to get sober was one of the most distressing things I have ever had to do. (wonderful family, both parents avpoided any alcohol or other drugs as all the grandparents were alcoholics) Of course I have others who could give a shi7 and like a party. It seems that the partiers survive and the other ones don't.
Again, I am not saying people aren't responsible for their actions but there are so many variables involved in addiction and how a person starts to use. By the time these people realize they are stupid it is too late.
For some people they just stop and that is that. For some it is not just a mental choice to quit. Depending on the drug a person gets very physically ill and depending on the level of use can die if they stop without help. Even with help it is not pretty. The brain physiology is changed permanently when someone is addicted. That means they chronically and permanently struggle with craving, feeling mentally not right. Most teens do not take any of this into consideration when they start using.
:climbs off soapbox:
Reading this makes me sad.
In my experience, admittedly anecdotal, they start doing this after they started on something socially acceptable that impaired their judgment. I don't think I have ever met someone who started using heroin without having tried other stuff first. Many of them successfully chipped around and did not think they were addicted to other substances so thought the heroin risk is overblown.
Almost all of the addicts of alcohol and other drugs I have seen (and I would hazard to guess this is the case for most) start in their teens or in college where the culture is frequently very supportive of risk taking behavior. With the exception of a few people who started with pain meds do to chronic pain, most of the people I have in my practice started when they were teens. Some teens have real issues with being able to comprehend consequence (physiologically) which is why they do really dumb things like drive too fast, drink, snort all sorts of things, take prescription drugs and have unprotected sex. In our town they don't really educate the kids about alcohol and other drugs until late in HS (seems unbelievable but it is true. Yep, our town is the brightest light bulb on the tree). By then these kids are experimenting all over the place. I have had more than one kid say "They told me pot was really dangerous but all my friends were doing it and nothing happened to them. I just thought they were lying about that too." I went to the wake of one of those kids, now dead of an OD. She realized way too late they weren't lying. Watching her struggle with trying to get sober was one of the most distressing things I have ever had to do. (wonderful family, both parents avpoided any alcohol or other drugs as all the grandparents were alcoholics) Of course I have others who could give a shi7 and like a party. It seems that the partiers survive and the other ones don't.
Again, I am not saying people aren't responsible for their actions but there are so many variables involved in addiction and how a person starts to use. By the time these people realize they are stupid it is too late.
For some people they just stop and that is that. For some it is not just a mental choice to quit. Depending on the drug a person gets very physically ill and depending on the level of use can die if they stop without help. Even with help it is not pretty. The brain physiology is changed permanently when someone is addicted. That means they chronically and permanently struggle with craving, feeling mentally not right. Most teens do not take any of this into consideration when they start using.
:climbs off soapbox:
Last edited:
- Status