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Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
- Thread starter MissThundercat
- Start date
- Status
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Yes.
Well, sure there is; your opinion.
I assume you meant to say there is no method that exists to objectively rate or measure quality of music. There actually are zillions of them -- the whole history of aesthetics -- and some of them are fascinating. I'm reading Adorno's Aesthetics right now and in paraphrase (because it takes him a while to say things; I know the feeling) he posits an objection to Hegel's theory by saying something like "beauty is what makes you aware of the gap in your empirical knowledge." Start with Schopenhauer's famous first sentence, "the World is my idea," meaning all I know of reality is the sense I make of what I sense. Adorno is basically saying, no, that's wrong. Sometimes we get a glimmer of "the world behind the world," what our rationality does not capture and what is not expressible through it, but which nonetheless exists and somehow reaches us. He talks about the mood of an evening, or the gasping can't-quite-express-it of a shadow or a sunset. I love this definition but to call it objective is highly suspect. Does the Polynesian or the Aborigine have the same lump in his throat from looking at a sunset or does he thinks, "oh, sh-t, better get under cover before the storm"?
But like sexual ideals, it does slide over time. If my sexual ideal today was the same as when I was 16 I would be at worst in jail and at best severely unsatisfied with my current living arrangements. Likewise with music. I was locked in on punk and blues at 16, but I didn't "get" opera until my twenties or rap until my forties. Your world opens up and swallows you down, it's the only way I can describe it. But it is intensely personal and subjective.
The 70s had great music in rock, proto-punk, punk itself, and soul. Let's just count the popular bands that were good from the Ranker list: Zep, Pink Floyd, the Stones, Sabbath, CSNY, the Allmans, AC/DC, Santana, Bob Marley, Genesis before Gabriel left, Marvin Gaye, the Police, Steely Dan, Neil Young, Yes, The Clash, Rush, Prince, early Springsteen, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the first one), Lou Godd-mn Reed, Iggy and the Stooges, PFunk, Patti Smith, Stranglers, The D-mned, Television, Buzzcocks, and they didn't even get to the Ramones, X Ray Spex, James Brown, the Gang of Four, Ray Charles, Adverts, Schooly D, DKs, Aretha, Wire, Al Green, Richard Hell, Sugarhill Gang, the Germs, Curtis Mayfield, Bowie, Black Flag, Kool and the Gang, Kraftwerk, Alice Cooper, or the Holy Trinity of Rap (DJ Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa), or the one ring to rule them all, Zappa.
The 80s had great music in rock, post-punk and hip hop. Again, just the popular ones: Prince, Eurythmics, Van Halen, the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Cars, Metallica before they sucked, Joy Division/New Order, the Smiths, B-52s, Pretenders, Cheap Trick (fight me!), Earth Wind & Fire, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the second one), Devo, Pixies, PFurs, OMD, Public Enemy, Sonic Youth, Ultravox, Femmes, Joe Jackson, the Tubes, Eric B & Rakim, and they didn't even get to NWA, Thomas Dolby, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Siouxie, Minor Threat, Big Daddy Kane, Dead Milkmen, the Fall, Slick Rick, Ian Dury, Heavy D, Replacements, Descendents, Nick Cave, Mission of Burma, Too Short, MDC, Magazine, Naughty by Nature, the Jam, EPMD, the Specials, Geto Boys, Minutemen, X, or NOFX.
Never mistake the music on the radio or the charts or in Rolling Stone or even NME or Pitchfork with the music that matters. Moby Dick was a commercial failure. Every age produces incredible and unique music. Right this second there's some garage band in South Dakota or Kazakhstan creating the only music from the 2020's that will be remembered in 50 years.
Yes.
Well, sure there is; your opinion.
I assume you meant to say there is no method that exists to objectively rate or measure quality of music. There actually are zillions of them -- the whole history of aesthetics -- and some of them are fascinating. I'm reading Adorno's Aesthetics right now and in paraphrase (because it takes him a while to say things; I know the feeling) he posits an objection to Hegel's theory by saying something like "beauty is what makes you aware of the gap in your empirical knowledge." Start with Schopenhauer's famous first sentence, "the World is my idea," meaning all I know of reality is the sense I make of what I sense. Adorno is basically saying, no, that's wrong. Sometimes we get a glimmer of "the world behind the world," what our rationality does not capture and what is not expressible through it, but which nonetheless exists and somehow reaches us. He talks about the mood of an evening, or the gasping can't-quite-express-it of a shadow or a sunset. I love this definition but to call it objective is highly suspect. Does the Polynesian or the Aborigine have the same lump in his throat from looking at a sunset or does he thinks, "oh, sh-t, better get under cover before the storm"?
But like sexual ideals, it does slide over time. If my sexual ideal today was the same as when I was 16 I would be at worst in jail and at best severely unsatisfied with my current living arrangements. Likewise with music. I was locked in on punk and blues at 16, but I didn't "get" opera until my twenties or rap until my forties. Your world opens up and swallows you down, it's the only way I can describe it. But it is intensely personal and subjective.
The 70s had great music in rock, proto-punk, punk itself, and soul. Let's just count the popular bands that were good from the Ranker list: Zep, Pink Floyd, the Stones, Sabbath, CSNY, the Allmans, AC/DC, Santana, Bob Marley, Genesis before Gabriel left, Marvin Gaye, the Police, Steely Dan, Neil Young, Yes, The Clash, Rush, Prince, early Springsteen, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the first one), Lou Godd-mn Reed, Iggy and the Stooges, PFunk, Patti Smith, Stranglers, The D-mned, Television, Buzzcocks, and they didn't even get to the Ramones, X Ray Spex, James Brown, the Gang of Four, Ray Charles, Adverts, Schooly D, DKs, Aretha, Wire, Al Green, Richard Hell, Sugarhill Gang, the Germs, Curtis Mayfield, Bowie, Black Flag, Kool and the Gang, Kraftwerk, Alice Cooper, or the Holy Trinity of Rap (DJ Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa), or the one ring to rule them all, Zappa.
The 80s had great music in rock, post-punk and hip hop. Again, just the popular ones: Prince, Eurythmics, Van Halen, the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Cars, Metallica before they sucked, Joy Division/New Order, the Smiths, B-52s, Pretenders, Cheap Trick (fight me!), Earth Wind & Fire, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the second one), Devo, Pixies, PFurs, OMD, Public Enemy, Sonic Youth, Ultravox, Femmes, Joe Jackson, the Tubes, Eric B & Rakim, and they didn't even get to NWA, Thomas Dolby, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Siouxie, Minor Threat, Big Daddy Kane, Dead Milkmen, the Fall, Slick Rick, Ian Dury, Heavy D, Replacements, Descendents, Nick Cave, Mission of Burma, Too Short, MDC, Magazine, Naughty by Nature, the Jam, EPMD, the Specials, Geto Boys, Minutemen, X, or NOFX.
Never mistake the music on the radio or the charts or in Rolling Stone or even NME or Pitchfork with the music that matters. Moby Dick was a commercial failure. Every age produces incredible and unique music. Right this second there's some garage band in South Dakota or Kazakhstan creating the only music from the 2020's that will be remembered in 50 years.
Last edited:
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think Radiohead sucks balls, but apparently they are one of the better rock bands in history.
I've also had people ask me if I was serious when I said I totally dig Billie Eilish's music, or if I was being sarcastic (her music is awesome FTR).
It's all a matter of personal preference, just like any other style of media (TV, movies, books, whatever). There is quality, there are guilty pleasures, etc. *shrug* So be it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think Radiohead sucks balls, but apparently they are one of the better rock bands in history.
I've also had people ask me if I was serious when I said I totally dig Billie Eilish's music, or if I was being sarcastic (her music is awesome FTR).
It's all a matter of personal preference, just like any other style of media (TV, movies, books, whatever). There is quality, there are guilty pleasures, etc. *shrug* So be it.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Radiohead is brilliant. Radiohead is not a rock band.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally think Radiohead sucks balls, but apparently they are one of the better rock bands in history.
Radiohead is brilliant. Radiohead is not a rock band.
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Glad to have read that post.
Yes.
Well, sure there is; your opinion.
I assume you meant to say there is no method that exists to objectively rate or measure quality of music. There actually are zillions of them -- the whole history of aesthetics -- and some of them are fascinating. I'm reading Adorno's Aesthetics right now and in paraphrase (because it takes him a while to say things; I know the feeling) he posits an objection to Hegel's theory by saying something like "beauty is what makes you aware of the gap in your empirical knowledge." Start with Schopenhauer's famous first sentence, "the World is my idea," meaning all I know of reality is the sense I make of what I sense. Adorno is basically saying, no, that's wrong. Sometimes we get a glimmer of "the world behind the world," what our rationality does not capture and what is not expressible through it, but which nonetheless exists and somehow reaches us. He talks about the mood of an evening, or the gasping can't-quite-express-it of a shadow or a sunset. I love this definition but to call it objective is highly suspect. Does the Polynesian or the Aborigine have the same lump in his throat from looking at a sunset or does he thinks, "oh, sh-t, better get under cover before the storm"?
But like sexual ideals, it does slide over time. If my sexual ideal today was the same as when I was 16 I would be at worst in jail and at best severely unsatisfied with my current living arrangements. Likewise with music. I was locked in on punk and blues at 16, but I didn't "get" opera until my twenties or rap until my forties. Your world opens up and swallows you down, it's the only way I can describe it. But it is intensely personal and subjective.
The 70s had great music in rock, proto-punk, punk itself, and soul. Let's just count the popular bands that were good from the Ranker list: Zep, Pink Floyd, the Stones, Sabbath, CSNY, the Allmans, AC/DC, Santana, Bob Marley, Genesis before Gabriel left, Marvin Gaye, the Police, Steely Dan, Neil Young, Yes, The Clash, Rush, Prince, early Springsteen, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the first one), Lou Godd-mn Reed, Iggy and the Stooges, PFunk, Patti Smith, Stranglers, The D-mned, Television, Buzzcocks, and they didn't even get to the Ramones, X Ray Spex, James Brown, the Gang of Four, Ray Charles, Adverts, Schooly D, DKs, Aretha, Wire, Al Green, Richard Hell, Sugarhill Gang, the Germs, Curtis Mayfield, Bowie, Black Flag, Kool and the Gang, Kraftwerk, Alice Cooper, or the Holy Trinity of Rap (DJ Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa), or the one ring to rule them all, Zappa.
The 80s had great music in rock, post-punk and hip hop. Again, just the popular ones: Prince, Eurythmics, Van Halen, the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Cars, Metallica before they sucked, Joy Division/New Order, the Smiths, B-52s, Pretenders, Cheap Trick (fight me!), Earth Wind & Fire, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the second one), Devo, Pixies, PFurs, OMD, Public Enemy, Sonic Youth, Ultravox, Femmes, Joe Jackson, the Tubes, Eric B & Rakim, and they didn't even get to NWA, Thomas Dolby, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Siouxie, Minor Threat, Big Daddy Kane, Dead Milkmen, the Fall, Slick Rick, Ian Dury, Heavy D, Replacements, Descendents, Nick Cave, Mission of Burma, Too Short, MDC, Magazine, Naughty by Nature, the Jam, EPMD, the Specials, Geto Boys, Minutemen, X, or NOFX.
Never mistake the music on the radio or the charts or in Rolling Stone or even NME or Pitchfork with the music that matters. Moby Dick was a commercial failure. Every age produces incredible and unique music. Right this second there's some garage band in South Dakota or Kazakhstan creating the only music from the 2020's that will be remembered in 50 years.
Glad to have read that post.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Several points, on phone, so **** formatting a kickass reply like yours
Yes, that’s what I meant.
Purely objective means I can measure something with a sensor and compare it. And it all boils down to the universal 1> 0.
Fair enough on the slide. I agree. I didn’t mean it was cemented to the floor.
I know bands like zeppelin did works in the 70s, but I still consider them a quintessential 60s band. Ditto on Floyd and Moody Blues and The stones. Stones could probably have a really difficult argument to counter that they weren’t 70s too, but I personally still group them in the 60s.
Prince, fine. Good example but I didn’t get a real appreciation until about the time he died. You can reference the last RS500 post I made to see how I feel about some of the other bands of the era. But still meaningless until I get another 100 albums or so.
That’s all I have for now on the phone.
The caveat I have to repeat is that I’m learning good late 70s early 80s music by forcing myself through them. Not because I heard them growing up. Like all things taste, everything is acquired.
Yes.
Well, sure there is; your opinion.
I assume you meant to say there is no method that exists to objectively rate or measure quality of music. There actually are zillions of them -- the whole history of aesthetics -- and some of them are fascinating. I'm reading Adorno's Aesthetics right now and in paraphrase (because it takes him a while to say things; I know the feeling) he posits an objection to Hegel's theory by saying something like "beauty is what makes you aware of the gap in your empirical knowledge." Start with Schopenhauer's famous first sentence, "the World is my idea," meaning all I know of reality is the sense I make of what I sense. Adorno is basically saying, no, that's wrong. Sometimes we get a glimmer of "the world behind the world," what our rationality does not capture and what is not expressible through it, but which nonetheless exists and somehow reaches us. He talks about the mood of an evening, or the gasping can't-quite-express-it of a shadow or a sunset. I love this definition but to call it objective is highly suspect. Does the Polynesian or the Aborigine have the same lump in his throat from looking at a sunset or does he thinks, "oh, sh-t, better get under cover before the storm"?
But like sexual ideals, it does slide over time. If my sexual ideal today was the same as when I was 16 I would be at worst in jail and at best severely unsatisfied with my current living arrangements. Likewise with music. I was locked in on punk and blues at 16, but I didn't "get" opera until my twenties or rap until my forties. Your world opens up and swallows you down, it's the only way I can describe it. But it is intensely personal and subjective.
The 70s had great music in rock, proto-punk, punk itself, and soul. Let's just count the popular bands that were good from the Ranker list: Zep, Pink Floyd, the Stones, Sabbath, CSNY, the Allmans, AC/DC, Santana, Bob Marley, Genesis before Gabriel left, Marvin Gaye, the Police, Steely Dan, Neil Young, Yes, The Clash, Rush, Prince, early Springsteen, Talking Heads, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the first one), Lou Godd-mn Reed, Iggy and the Stooges, PFunk, Patti Smith, Stranglers, The D-mned, Television, Buzzcocks, and they didn't even get to the Ramones, X Ray Spex, James Brown, the Gang of Four, Ray Charles, Adverts, Schooly D, DKs, Aretha, Wire, Al Green, Richard Hell, Sugarhill Gang, the Germs, Curtis Mayfield, Bowie, Black Flag, Kool and the Gang, Kraftwerk, Alice Cooper, or the Holy Trinity of Rap (DJ Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa), or the one ring to rule them all, Zappa.
The 80s had great music in rock, post-punk and hip hop. Again, just the popular ones: Prince, Eurythmics, Van Halen, the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Cars, Metallica before they sucked, Joy Division/New Order, the Smiths, B-52s, Pretenders, Cheap Trick (fight me!), Earth Wind & Fire, Elvis Costello before he cheated on his wife (the second one), Devo, Pixies, PFurs, OMD, Public Enemy, Sonic Youth, Ultravox, Femmes, Joe Jackson, the Tubes, Eric B & Rakim, and they didn't even get to NWA, Thomas Dolby, Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks, Siouxie, Minor Threat, Big Daddy Kane, Dead Milkmen, the Fall, Slick Rick, Ian Dury, Heavy D, Replacements, Descendents, Nick Cave, Mission of Burma, Too Short, MDC, Magazine, Naughty by Nature, the Jam, EPMD, the Specials, Geto Boys, Minutemen, X, or NOFX.
Never mistake the music on the radio or the charts or in Rolling Stone or even NME or Pitchfork with the music that matters. Moby Dick was a commercial failure. Every age produces incredible and unique music. Right this second there's some garage band in South Dakota or Kazakhstan creating the only music from the 2020's that will be remembered in 50 years.
Several points, on phone, so **** formatting a kickass reply like yours
Yes, that’s what I meant.
Purely objective means I can measure something with a sensor and compare it. And it all boils down to the universal 1> 0.
Fair enough on the slide. I agree. I didn’t mean it was cemented to the floor.
I know bands like zeppelin did works in the 70s, but I still consider them a quintessential 60s band. Ditto on Floyd and Moody Blues and The stones. Stones could probably have a really difficult argument to counter that they weren’t 70s too, but I personally still group them in the 60s.
Prince, fine. Good example but I didn’t get a real appreciation until about the time he died. You can reference the last RS500 post I made to see how I feel about some of the other bands of the era. But still meaningless until I get another 100 albums or so.
That’s all I have for now on the phone.
The caveat I have to repeat is that I’m learning good late 70s early 80s music by forcing myself through them. Not because I heard them growing up. Like all things taste, everything is acquired.
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
And our views of that band are the basis of "what is good music" discussion. It widely varies.
And our views of that band are the basis of "what is good music" discussion.
It widely varies.mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
except of course for Kepler's complete lack of regard for the beatles
except of course for Kepler's complete lack of regard for the beatles
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
I did not know this! As you say, way ahead of their time.
I did not know this! As you say, way ahead of their time.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Careful!!
except of course for Kepler's complete lack of regard for the beatles
Careful!!
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Great post overall, liked this one in particular (as a fan of Mass Ave/Boston music in late '70's early 80's). Throwing Muses would make my list (yes, I know, Rhode Island).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
I had not heard of them. They sound good (and Kristin Hersh is cute as a button).
I had not heard of them. They sound good (and Kristin Hersh is cute as a button).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Their Live In Providence album is a favorite!
Their Live In Providence album is a favorite!
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Rocky Johnson, Canadian professional wrestler and Dwayne Johnson's father, 75.
Rocky Johnson, Canadian professional wrestler and Dwayne Johnson's father, 75.
Twitch Boy
Defacing this tagline is a MAX foul
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
Terry Jones.
Terry Jones.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Dead Thread 2019-???: Yep, They're Still Dead.
<img src="https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerfumedHonestAiredale-size_restricted.gif" >
<img src="https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PerfumedHonestAiredale-size_restricted.gif" >
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