Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Although he was a cop, so had special privileges, my uncle carried. Never could tell. He didn't make rookie mistakes like the guy you mentioned.

It was bad. His coat was too form fitted* so he was profiling a bit, and his jacket opened when he sat down. If my brain hadn't said, "What kind of fool wears a sport coat in this heat?" I'd have never been observing. That, and I know enough former military and current and former cops.

*Sometimes that "V" torso isn't your friend.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Even when the shooting happened at the Army base, once you get past the guard posts there are no weapons to be carried on base except by the MPs.

Sorry but this is where it goes absurd. No way was an army base a target because it was 'soft'.

I have become a fan of open carry (vs. conceal). I think the average citizen should absolutely know if they are in danger because others are choosing to pack. It will also shine light on the topic enough to get state congressional action once the average citizen knows the threat from others choosing to carry. It was wise to pick conceal...otherwise there'd be significant more pressure to chuck it.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Where have the mass shootings taken place in the US? Without exception, they've been in "gun free zones."

In my opinion this is a false equivalency. Mass shootings happened well before the concept, "gun free zones" existed because everywhere was technically gun free. How many types of, "non-gun free zones" are there that would be targeted if they were instead gun free? You can leave police stations et al out of the discussion for obvious reasons.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Sorry but this is where it goes absurd. No way was an army base a target because it was 'soft'.

I have become a fan of open carry (vs. conceal). I think the average citizen should absolutely know if they are in danger because others are choosing to pack. It will also shine light on the topic enough to get state congressional action once the average citizen knows the threat from others choosing to carry. It was wise to pick conceal...otherwise there'd be significant more pressure to chuck it.

You want to spread fear and panic for no good reason whatsoever. The people with conceal carry permits have a far lower rate of committing violent crimes than the non-permit carrying public.

In my opinion this is a false equivalency. Mass shootings happened well before the concept, "gun free zones" existed because everywhere was technically gun free. How many types of, "non-gun free zones" are there that would be targeted if they were instead gun free? You can leave police stations et al out of the discussion for obvious reasons.

Absolutely anywhere where a gunman holds a grudge and thinks he could get maximum carnage. Thankfully, despite their prevalence in the news cycle, these mass shootings are incredibly rare, so it's not something that really ever gives me pause to consider any business's gun policy by placing the "[business name] bans guns on these premises" sign.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Absolutely anywhere where a gunman holds a grudge and thinks he could get maximum carnage. Thankfully, despite their prevalence in the news cycle, these mass shootings are incredibly rare, so it's not something that really ever gives me pause to consider any business's gun policy by placing the "[business name] bans guns on these premises" sign.

And as I mentioned earlier, people can still carry guns on those sites. They can only be asked to leave/get kicked out if they are caught carrying a weapon.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

And as I mentioned earlier, people can still carry guns on those sites. They can only be asked to leave/get kicked out if they are caught carrying a weapon.

Sure, but most people are going to respect the sign and therefore would make it an easier theoretical target than a place that does not have that sign.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Sure, but most people are going to respect the sign and therefore would make it an easier theoretical target than a place that does not have that sign.

Right...and you if you believe that most are going to not conceal/carry where there is a sign I got a bridge to sell you on Hennepin Ave. I know you arent actually that naive...

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

And as I mentioned earlier, people can still carry guns on those sites. They can only be asked to leave/get kicked out if they are caught carrying a weapon.

Yup. As was said,

Sure, but most people are going to respect the sign and therefore would make it an easier theoretical target than a place that does not have that sign.

The people with conceal carry permits have a far lower rate of committing violent crimes than the non-permit carrying public.

Yup. I'd recommend everyone to read this book: https://www.amazon.com/Minnesota-Permit-Carry-Firearm-Fundamentals/dp/1606438093

Why? There are some amazing (sourced and referenced) statistics in there. One is what St. Clown mentions: CCL holders are law abiders, even moreso than police* (that was just for Flags).

Another amazing data point? The current FBI director hasn't had a problem with conceal carry license holders.


*Some won't like the source, but the sources and references are given.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Right...and you if you believe that most are going to not conceal/carry where there is a sign I got a bridge to sell you on Hennepin Ave. I know you arent actually that naive...

If I see a sign on the door I just take my business elsewhere, like the safest gas station in Sauk Center, ... or at least it is now.

PS - As St. Clown also mentioned, I've walked into the lobby of the pistol range before and the RSOs were sure I wasn't carrying. Pair of Keens, pair of shorts, "Plunder the lox"* baseball jersey. The trained eyes couldn't tell.

PPS - Who really-really doesn't (or maybe it's really does) care about that sign? James Holmes.


*Plunder the lox -- as in Pittsburgh #22

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

You want to spread fear and panic for no good reason whatsoever. The people with conceal carry permits have a far lower rate of committing violent crimes than the non-permit carrying public.

Sounds like the typical lack of logic from certain posters.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

If I see a sign on the door I just take my business elsewhere

This is funny. I do exactly the opposite.

Takes all kinds to make a world.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

If I see a sign on the door I just take my business elsewhere

I try to do the same. It is much more safe to be in areas where concealed carry is allowed and encouraged.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

This is funny. I do exactly the opposite.

Takes all kinds to make a world.

And that's what makes the world great. Like we've talked about. Let the shopkeeper decide matters like smoking, carry, ... and the free-market will handle it from there.

When I go to a town when I see cops in the parking lot of a diner I know that's where to eat: criminals won't go there, and the coffee must be good. You mean you haven't figured that one out?


Here's one that'll pop some neurons: I've been told under strong authority that there are a couple Christian mega-churches in Fargo that have select members (former LEOs, or Feds, or HP; and CCL holders) who are carrying during services by permission, dare I say at request, of the church council and pastors. < comment here about clinging to Bibles and guns >

 

[BassAle]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Don't need to hide it from wildlife, but it does permit you to carry. Bigger picture here.

And remote areas? No witnesses for the bad guys to worry about.

I spend time in plenty of rural/wilderness areas (in fact, I'm going to be spending the weekend hours from the nearest law enforcement). I don't have any need for a gun. The world is way less dangerous than you guys think

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

You want to spread fear and panic for no good reason whatsoever. The people with conceal carry permits have a far lower rate of committing violent crimes than the non-permit carrying public.

There is fear and panic because there is danger to the individuals involved. Let me explain in very simple terms.

American society is built on knowledge. You drive down the freeway, do you think its in your best interest to be able to see the road ahead? Its because you have information with which you can make better decisions. Why does the government force public corporations to offer full disclosure on operations and earnings? So the average investor doesn't lose their life savings. This is also why we have the first amendment...to give society as much information as possible. Are pharmaceuticals required by law to state their full observable side affects? You bet. As you say, its not just to 'scare' potential users. From a pure statistical standpoint, the existence of a gun actually does increase the potential danger to yourself. Why is it communication of the risk from most dangers is guaranteed...but risk from guns is actually kept secret from individuals? Serious screw job on the US public.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

Where have the mass shootings taken place in the US?

Places familiar to the shooter with large crowds. Often a place of work, the shooters school, or someplace else they are familiar with (or someplace shocking like an elementary school). The Aurora shooter had a detailed notebook planning the attack. He discussed the pros/cons of several types of attacks (bombs, biological, serial murder, etc). After he settled on a mass shooting, he had pros/cons of several targets. No where on the list was 'gun free zone'. Then after he selected a theater he had drawings of the theater layout, fire exits, etc and he picked the theater with the fewest exits and that he could get into position without drawing attention. If being a gun free zone, he completely left that fact out of his detailed plans (which appeared to capture his entire thought process for planning the attack).

 

[BassAle]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

When I go to a town when I see cops in the parking lot of a diner I know that's where to eat: criminals won't go there

It must suck to go through life so scared/paranoid that something like that is even a concern/thought when deciding where to eat.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

It must suck to go through life so scared/paranoid that something like that is even a concern/thought when deciding where to eat.

If I'm driving down the street in an unfamiliar town and there are two cafes in sight, I pick the one with cop cars. Cops know where the food is good.

The cafe at the Sunlac in Lakota, ND, is awesome for breakfast. I'd have never stopped there until I saw three ND HP cruisers out there one morning.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0 - II

It must suck to go through life so scared/paranoid ...

... about an inanimate object.

 

[unofan]

The people with conceal carry permits have a far lower rate of committing violent crimes than the non-permit carrying public.

Well, no shiat. The general public includes the whole population, including felons, by definition. Many felons are legally barred from owning weapons, and would fail to get a concealed carry permit as soon as a background check is run. When you self select a population to exclude criminals, you'll end up with a group that is less criminal.

That doesn't negate the argument that guns and even concealed carry permits should be harder to obtain; there are plenty of Forrest Gumps out there who are law abiding but I wouldn't trust with a stick, let alone a firearm.