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Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

papulaisle said:
Good review, good to hear review.

Blue Monday here. Disagreeable. Argh.

Harvard lays to one side their stumbling and bumbling in early going of each season-"WE are Harvard after all..." (perhaps); and bring their "A" game to Dartmouth matches.

Now they can get back to that style for a time (until it starts to count.)

Trunzo didn't play. Anyone?

Green bounced back and showed themselves proud after 'schooling' perhaps at Cornell.

Also know who-Harvard, the school, Harvard University/College, the one in Cambridge, Massachusetts (not the Town) and Big Red are and where winning hereafter might be sweeter, sweetest?

Perhaps a challenge.

C'mon Dartmouth!
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Blue Monday ?....I'm singing the Blues trying to follow the logic....Translation Please ! :D

P.S...As a long ago Expos fan, our translation of Blue Monday is well.....that Infamous home Run by Dodger Rick Monday on a fatefull Monday afternoon in October in 1981 to knock the Expos out of the NLC series....
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Game with Vermont postponed. College site says because some players had trouble returning to campus by the 29Th.
UConn in Hanover at 4:00 today!
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Dartmouth strong today with 9-2 advantage here about two thirds the way through period three. Play again tomorrow. Both matches in Hanover. Shots currently, 37/18, Dartmouth but UConn slight edge on face offs. Power play three for four, Dartmouth and one for three, UConn.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Dartmouth wins today over Uconn 5-0, for a sweep. Goals by Foley, Hobeika (2), Boehm, Fischer.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Coach Hudak nominated for ECAC Coach of The Year. Really nice to see. Three in all nominated; Derraugh of Cornell and Seeley join Coach Hudak. Dartmouth picked to finish eighth in the ECAC at the beginning of the season, finished third. Coach said goal for season (as chosen by the players, I believe) was to surprise or to produce some surprises, etc. Seems goal has so far been achieved-at least I would judge it so especially after surprising and convincing win over Cornell.

ECAC Tournament play commences at 3:30 PM on Friday in Hanover with a best of three against Clarkson .
 
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Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

papulaisle said:
Coach Hudak nominated for ECAC Coach of The Year. Really nice to see. Three in all nominated; Derraugh of Cornell and Seeley join Coach Hudak. Dartmouth picked to finish eighth in the ECAC at the beginning of the season, finished third. Coach said goal for season (as chosen by the players, I believe) was to surprise or to produce some surprises, etc. Seems goal has so far been achieved-at least I would judge it so especially after surprising and convincing win over Cornell.

ECAC Tournament play commences at 3:30 PM on Friday in Hanover with a best of three against Clarkson .
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By far, the most easily read and easily comprehensible post by papulaisle I've ever read. :)
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Look at this:

I used the last 10 years as base datum. That would be the 2000-2001 season through the 2009-2010 season, inclusive.


During that span, Dartmouth won the ECAC regular season 3 of the 10 years; Harvard won it 4 (of the 10.)
Dartmouth over this same period won 4 of the ECAC tournaments; Harvard won 4 also.
Pretty even results but slightly skewed toward Harvard in victories of ECAC regular seasons by 1.

Look however at who got the recognition:

While the 'pollsters' were still in the building, so to speak (election of All-Stars and MVP's of tournaments take place on site) the numbers (Dartmouth and Harvard players recognized) come up pretty even.

Tournament MVP's: 4 each.
A little skewed as to First Team All-Tournament, however. Harvard 21, Dartmouth 19, players.

But look at regular season recognition where voters perhpas 'hide' away from recognition of a different kind-recognition by their peers, maybe. Mail it in (the ballot.) And are thus more likely to be swayed by media.

All Conference First Team selections over the period: Harvard, 17, Dartmouth 5, players honored.
Conference Players of The Year, Harvard, 6, Dartmouth, 2 players honored.

WHAT is going on here?

Well, likely Hanover has fewer media outlets than in and around the Hub.
Voters are biased.

But there is another explanation, perhaps.
To wit: Dartmouth has better coaching.
To the extent that they are able to produce generally equal results as Harvard at ECAC tournaments and over the regular ECAC season ... they do so (as measured by these All-Star selections and MVP's) with obviously more middling talent.

You choose.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Really, we need to reignite a Harvard vs. Dartmouth debate? Really?

papulaisle said:
All Conference First Team selections over the period: Harvard, 17, Dartmouth 5, players honored.
Conference Players of The Year, Harvard, 6, Dartmouth, 2 players honored.
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In addition to conference POTY, we could also look at Kazmaier Awards: Harvard had 5 in that time, Dartmouth 0. Harvard had 6 Kaz 3, and I think Dartmouth had 1 (Haggard in 2002). So it's not just the ECAC Conference. I'm sure Kaz 10 nominees are similarly skewed.

Well, likely Hanover has fewer media outlets than in and around the Hub.
Voters are biased.
Click to expand...

Blame the media? The Kaz 10 and ECAC are all decided by the coaches. I don't think the coaches spent a lot of team reading what little media there is. This is not the Heisman balloting. This is women's hockey.

But there is another explanation, perhaps.
To wit: Dartmouth has better coaching.
To the extent that they are able to produce generally equal results as Harvard at ECAC tournaments and over the regular ECAC season ... they do so (as measured by these All-Star selections and MVP's) with obviously more middling talent.

You choose.
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Well, it could be that Katey succeeded in recruiting the absolute most talented players, or was better able to get more out of the most talented players, or got the players who were more loyal to Harvard rather than Team Canada? (i.e. contrast Corriero and Botterill with Piper & Apps) Piper & Apps were frequently excellent but rarely in contention for awards due to time missed & injuries.

I'm surprised anyone would still accuse Katey of only being able to coach stars. Yes, the 2000 & 2001 Dartmouth teams had better depth and fewer stars than Harvard, and the 2002 Harvard team with no Olympians was top 10 but not great. But in the 05-06 Olympic year, Harvard won the ECAC title with no superstars, while Dartmouth struggled. In 09-10, Harvard managed to get NCAA home ice despite graduating a Kazmaier winner from a team with no other Olympians, while Dartmouth missed the ECAC playoffs on a team that still featured the top goal scorer of the 2006 US Olympic Team.

This year, neither team is stacked, but both are doing quite well, along with Providence, they are the top teams apart from the top 8 (who all had top US/Canadian Olympians, or in the case of Minnesota, the top Finnish goalie). A few other top eastern programs from the last decade have not kept the pace. Both Stone and Hudak have been successful for a decade now. At times, one program or the other has had the upper hand. It's been a good rivalry over the years. I have a lot of respect for both programs.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Comparing just the Dartmouth and Harvard NCAA tournament resumes, "Dartmouth has better coaching" doesn't exactly jump out at me, because part of the key to coaching is to have your team playing its best in the postseason.

I'd be curious to read how other Dartmouth fans feel about the job Mark Hudak has done over the years. From the outside, it seemed like the Big Green were a national title contender with Judy Oberting's players, but once they were gone, the general trend has been downward. Is that anything that he has done wrong, or just part of the changing landscape as Hockey East, Mercyhurst, and other ECAC schools like Cornell, Clarkson, and Quinnipiac have become more competitive?
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

ARM said:
I'd be curious to read how other Dartmouth fans feel about the job Mark Hudak has done over the years. From the outside, it seemed like the Big Green were a national title contender with Judy Oberting's players, but once they were gone, the general trend has been downward. Is that anything that he has done wrong, or just part of the changing landscape as Hockey East, Mercyhurst, and other ECAC schools like Cornell, Clarkson, and Quinnipiac have become more competitive?
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Though the 2007 team had three Olympians Oberting recruited, that was still a majority of Hudak's players (including Parsons). That team won an ECAC title, and the overtime quarterfinal loss to BC was at the very least a better performance than Dartmouth's 2001 NCAA semifinal, the one year they were the clear favorite. With Hudak's players, they made NCAAs in 2008 and won the ECAC title in 2009 and are on the NCAA bubble again this season.

So no, Dartmouth hasn't been quite as successful, and yes, I would tend to attribute this to the more competitive landscape. Compared to the other 2001 ECAC quarterfinal teams (Harvard, Brown, SLU, Northeastern, UNH, Providence, Niagara) probably only Harvard will look better when you look at team histories from 2008 until now and going forward the next few years (unless UNH bounces back fast, and their present season is just a blip like last year for Dartmouth).
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

dave1381 said:
Though the 2007 team had three Olympians Oberting recruited, that was still a majority of Hudak's players (including Parsons). That team won an ECAC title, and the overtime quarterfinal loss to BC was at the very least a better performance than Dartmouth's 2001 NCAA semifinal, the one year they were the clear favorite.
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If you want to call 2001 and 2007 a wash, maybe. But I can't call losing to the 7th or 8th best team in the rankings, which is what BC was, on home ice an improvement over losing to the 4th best team (SLU) on neutral ice.

I'd say the point about Oberting's players still holds in 2007. Take any above average team and put three Canadian Olympians on it and you'll get a title contender. Not reaching the Frozen Four has to qualify as a miss.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Sure, it was a miss, but I wouldn't classify the whole 2007 Dartmouth season as a failure based on one game. They did beat a SLU team that made the Frozen Four and a Harvard team with Chu and Vaillancourt for both the ECAC regular season and postseason titles. It's enough to make it a mixed bag, but not a failure.

And point still remains that based on 2008-2010 results and expectations for the next couple years, I still rate Dartmouth 5th or so out of 20 programs in the East and 2nd among the ones that were serious about their programs in 2000 (excluding BU, BC, Cornell).
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

dave1381 said:
And point still remains that based on 2008-2010 results and expectations for the next couple years, I still rate Dartmouth 5th or so out of 20 programs in the East and 2nd among the ones that were serious about their programs in 2000 (excluding BU, BC, Cornell).
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Behind Harvard presumably? I'd have to slot them behind UNH as well. Yes, the Wildcats dropped this year, but DC did last year, and UNH has accomplished more in their good years over that stretch. It remains to be seen if Dartmouth is trending above or below Providence and Northeastern, but yes, the Big Green have been the better team w/o considering the future. And their demise, if there has been one, is hardly of Brown proportions.
 
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Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

Good stuff. Sure I went in looking to prove a point. But the 'point' arose naturally, so to speak. In my ' travels' noticing the awards given out and where they went. So I took a ten year period.

Heard before about Judy Oberting. Surely likely a great recruiter AND coach. Each has different pluses, minuses. Coach Hudak relying on Sarah and Holley-Assistant Coaches. Did so when he was off helping Coach (name escaping me here; Coach at Ivy in Bay state...near Hub.)

There is element of nurture in teaching and coaching some might see as a lost initiative, say, from the male side (of women). Of players, assistants, all. I see THAT kind of coaching working, too. In the best sense here.

"Green demise"...Whoa.
Not to the extent of the 'demise' at Brown?

Whoa. Likely went too far?
Yikes!

Maybe humor of Dartmouth team's 2011 goal (this year) is still lost out there: " We hope to surprise a few teams. "
Partial tongue in cheek is what I heard with that.

Meaning to me-"Alright you all, we're going to play it your way. We hope maybe despite how bad we are, we can win a few games. Hope a hope."
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

ARM said:
Behind Harvard presumably? I'd have to slot them behind UNH as well. Yes, the Wildcats dropped this year, but DC did last year, and UNH has accomplished more in their good years over that stretch. It remains to be seen if Dartmouth is trending above or below Providence and Northeastern, but yes, the Big Green have been the better team w/o considering the future. And their demise, if there has been one, is hardly of Brown proportions.
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Right I agree on 2008-2010 alone, UNH has been better than Dartmouth, simply because 2008 UNH was a really fantastic team. I was also considering expectations for the next 2-3 years as well though. At this point Dartmouth probably projects better than UNH. But yes, if you asked this a year ago, I wouldn't have projected Dartmouth to be this good, and maybe UNH will bounce back as well -- but I'm not sure I see it.
 
Re: Dartmouth women's ice hockey, 2010-2011

I don't keep close track. I was surprised at UNH. My first thought was however (as to UNH), what is the 'spirit' there? What expectations do they have? What expectations do the coaches have? "Expectations" being a broad term here meaning more or less, "What up (at UNH)?" Such feels good in Hanover and keeps on rolling IMHO. Sooo that has been part of my point. Likely some will remember Waterman and Peter's book-"In Search of Excellence"? In it they said, findings showed, where best work was being done was where most fun was being had. Low key environment that let's folks do their own thing. So, where is they havin' a good time? Rockin' and a-reelin'?
 
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