USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
D3 Hockey is back!
- Thread starter gojackets
- Start date
CrossCheck
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Um, no actually, nice try, but you didn't [but what else is new?] since when you're a pinhead, you rarely hit nails on the head.
Now go crawl back under your rock where u belong.
Um, no actually, nice try, but you didn't [but what else is new?] since when you're a pinhead, you rarely hit nails on the head.
Now go crawl back under your rock where u belong.
SeymoreHockey
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Something for discussion: Has the quality of DIII hockey in the East declined or improved over the past 5-7 years. It seems that every year, the same two-three teams dominate. Ie. Plattsburgh and Elmira. Other East teams seem to have become weaker and weaker over this time span. Is this accurate? Or not? Try not to be insulting if possible, I'm very sensitive.
Something for discussion: Has the quality of DIII hockey in the East declined or improved over the past 5-7 years. It seems that every year, the same two-three teams dominate. Ie. Plattsburgh and Elmira. Other East teams seem to have become weaker and weaker over this time span. Is this accurate? Or not? Try not to be insulting if possible, I'm very sensitive.
CrossCheck
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
No. Overall, the talent level at D3 is markedly better than 5-10 years ago. Many who played then would ride the pine today.
However....when you add so many new programs.... all at once....the result is you do have a lot of slop out there these days.
Something for discussion: Has the quality of DIII hockey in the East declined or improved over the past 5-7 years. It seems that every year, the same two-three teams dominate. Ie. Plattsburgh and Elmira. Other East teams seem to have become weaker and weaker over this time span. Is this accurate? Or not? Try not to be insulting if possible, I'm very sensitive.
No. Overall, the talent level at D3 is markedly better than 5-10 years ago. Many who played then would ride the pine today.
However....when you add so many new programs.... all at once....the result is you do have a lot of slop out there these days.
gojackets
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I wonder that the addition of all the new teams is spreading the talent pool too thinly. While a lot of players from 10 years ago, "may have ridden the pine today"...which I disagree with, there are so many new teams between the D3 level and D1. It also seems that the NCAA has made it more challenging for Canadian players to come down here and play. Teams like Superior or River Falls were half, or more, Canadian 10 years ago. Superior still has 10 this year, River Falls has none.
With the exception of Adrian, and to an extent St. Norbert I can't think of a team that has joined up in the past 7-8 years that has been successful at gaining recruits. Adrian makes sense as they are the only women's team in the lower peninsula...and let's face it...no one wants to go to Finlandia.
The Men's league can handle the large number of teams because of the nationwide hockey programs. Even teaching in Arizona, I've known several boys that are on hockey teams and now play in the juniors. That doesn't happen with girls in AZ.
Something for discussion: Has the quality of DIII hockey in the East declined or improved over the past 5-7 years. It seems that every year, the same two-three teams dominate. Ie. Plattsburgh and Elmira. Other East teams seem to have become weaker and weaker over this time span. Is this accurate? Or not? Try not to be insulting if possible, I'm very sensitive.
I wonder that the addition of all the new teams is spreading the talent pool too thinly. While a lot of players from 10 years ago, "may have ridden the pine today"...which I disagree with, there are so many new teams between the D3 level and D1. It also seems that the NCAA has made it more challenging for Canadian players to come down here and play. Teams like Superior or River Falls were half, or more, Canadian 10 years ago. Superior still has 10 this year, River Falls has none.
With the exception of Adrian, and to an extent St. Norbert I can't think of a team that has joined up in the past 7-8 years that has been successful at gaining recruits. Adrian makes sense as they are the only women's team in the lower peninsula...and let's face it...no one wants to go to Finlandia.
The Men's league can handle the large number of teams because of the nationwide hockey programs. Even teaching in Arizona, I've known several boys that are on hockey teams and now play in the juniors. That doesn't happen with girls in AZ.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Norwich is in its 9th season. They've been pretty successful.
Although not there yet, I fully expect Endicott to become a force over the next couple of years.
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I flip-flop here. On one hand, I start to agree with the "talent pool" concept. But on the other, those new teams are hardly dipping into the recruiting of the top teams. So the perennial powers are theoretically pulling from the same pool they always would have.
What the addition of extra teams might do, particularly in the East, is spread the talent pool thinly among the mid-tier teams that used to have potential to make a splash here and there and beat a top team to throw a wrinkle in there every so often. Teams such as Oswego, Utica, Colby (?), Oswego, Hamilton, etc., suffer more than the top teams. That makes those teams worse and, thus, makes the top teams look that much better.
I flip-flop here. On one hand, I start to agree with the "talent pool" concept. But on the other, those new teams are hardly dipping into the recruiting of the top teams. So the perennial powers are theoretically pulling from the same pool they always would have.
What the addition of extra teams might do, particularly in the East, is spread the talent pool thinly among the mid-tier teams that used to have potential to make a splash here and there and beat a top team to throw a wrinkle in there every so often. Teams such as Oswego, Utica, Colby (?), Oswego, Hamilton, etc., suffer more than the top teams. That makes those teams worse and, thus, makes the top teams look that much better.
gojackets
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I forget that Norwich is that "new". I was thinking maybe you could include St. Scholastica in that mix, but I attribute most of their success over the past few years to the Waidacher sisters...without them they haven't done so well.
I forget that Norwich is that "new". I was thinking maybe you could include St. Scholastica in that mix, but I attribute most of their success over the past few years to the Waidacher sisters...without them they haven't done so well.
SeymoreHockey
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I just look at the likes of Neuman, Manhattanville, even Utica who were a solid middle of the road team that you couldn't take lightly a while ago, and are now floundering with Chatham, Buff State and the other perennial weaklings. Just wonder what's happened. It seems that in the East, the only teams worth watching are Platty, Elmira, Amherst, Norwich (and one other who's name escapes me right now)...the rest of the East seems made up of "four point autos". just seems to me that the league was growing stronger when my D played, and since then, it seems to be slowly declining. This may just be a perception, as I haven't really seen games since she graduated, just followed the results.
I just look at the likes of Neuman, Manhattanville, even Utica who were a solid middle of the road team that you couldn't take lightly a while ago, and are now floundering with Chatham, Buff State and the other perennial weaklings. Just wonder what's happened. It seems that in the East, the only teams worth watching are Platty, Elmira, Amherst, Norwich (and one other who's name escapes me right now)...the rest of the East seems made up of "four point autos". just seems to me that the league was growing stronger when my D played, and since then, it seems to be slowly declining. This may just be a perception, as I haven't really seen games since she graduated, just followed the results.
alternatecaptain
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
As a former player for a traditionally weaker team that went from an 2-25 record my freshman to hitting around .500 my senior year (my first year around the time period mentioned). I would say the level of play has not gone down at all. My team on the final game I played, would have blown out the team I played for my first year. We improved tremendously in terms of talent, coaching, execution, basically everything. Our .500 record may have been helped by playing new teams, but my team also improved in games against top teams as well. (Would get outshot around 90-10 against top 10 teams, to my final season getting outshot by these same teams 40-20).
The talent in the whole league improved as there are much more players now to recruit than many years ago. However, I would say its the bottom half of the league that improved the most (all players now are recruited from AA/AAA teams compared to almost rec. level players on the bottom teams previously). I would say the top and mid level teams are the same talent wise, but the bottom teams are much better.
These new teams may need a few recruiting cycles to become competitive, however most of them seem to be recruiting AAA/AA/prep school level players and not just anyone who shows up and can (kinda) skate.
As a former player for a traditionally weaker team that went from an 2-25 record my freshman to hitting around .500 my senior year (my first year around the time period mentioned). I would say the level of play has not gone down at all. My team on the final game I played, would have blown out the team I played for my first year. We improved tremendously in terms of talent, coaching, execution, basically everything. Our .500 record may have been helped by playing new teams, but my team also improved in games against top teams as well. (Would get outshot around 90-10 against top 10 teams, to my final season getting outshot by these same teams 40-20).
The talent in the whole league improved as there are much more players now to recruit than many years ago. However, I would say its the bottom half of the league that improved the most (all players now are recruited from AA/AAA teams compared to almost rec. level players on the bottom teams previously). I would say the top and mid level teams are the same talent wise, but the bottom teams are much better.
These new teams may need a few recruiting cycles to become competitive, however most of them seem to be recruiting AAA/AA/prep school level players and not just anyone who shows up and can (kinda) skate.
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I really don't see what this debate is about, and have not noticed a big difference from prior years.
I'm not sure what games you're watching...but I would agree that the former ECAC East [whatever they're calling it now] and the ECAC West, are very top-heavy, with a few very good teams, and a lot of newer and weaker programs. Totally disagree as to the NESCAC however. [you mention Amherst but neglect Midd for some reason, and Williams, Conn, Hamilton and Colby are not far off]. Even Wesleyan, who may be the weakest in that conf. can, on any given day, beat almost anyone.
I really don't see what this debate is about, and have not noticed a big difference from prior years.
I'm not sure what games you're watching...but I would agree that the former ECAC East [whatever they're calling it now] and the ECAC West, are very top-heavy, with a few very good teams, and a lot of newer and weaker programs. Totally disagree as to the NESCAC however. [you mention Amherst but neglect Midd for some reason, and Williams, Conn, Hamilton and Colby are not far off]. Even Wesleyan, who may be the weakest in that conf. can, on any given day, beat almost anyone.
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Boston College
#6 Kaliya Johnson SR D 5-7 Chandler, Arizona / North American Hockey Academy
#19 Makenna Newkirk FR F 5-7 R Scottsdale, Arizona / Southern CT Stars U19
UMD
#17 Katherine McGovern JR F 5-4 L 94 Scottsdale, Arizona / Dallas Stars U-19
Minnesota State
#23 Amanda Martin SO F 5-6 L 96 Peoria, Arizona / North American Hockey Academy
You were saying....?
Boston College
#6 Kaliya Johnson SR D 5-7 Chandler, Arizona / North American Hockey Academy
#19 Makenna Newkirk FR F 5-7 R Scottsdale, Arizona / Southern CT Stars U19
UMD
#17 Katherine McGovern JR F 5-4 L 94 Scottsdale, Arizona / Dallas Stars U-19
Minnesota State
#23 Amanda Martin SO F 5-6 L 96 Peoria, Arizona / North American Hockey Academy
You were saying....?
SeymoreHockey
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Ahh...Middlebury....that's the team I couldn't remember...sorry, Senior's Moment. Also, it's not a debate, I was just wondering about the quality over the years....The reason I ask is that Plattsburgh seems to be absolutely steamrolling teams game in and game out the past couple of years. Is it because of their recruiting? Or because the quality of play is less competitive. Just curious what people think.
Ahh...Middlebury....that's the team I couldn't remember...sorry, Senior's Moment. Also, it's not a debate, I was just wondering about the quality over the years....The reason I ask is that Plattsburgh seems to be absolutely steamrolling teams game in and game out the past couple of years. Is it because of their recruiting? Or because the quality of play is less competitive. Just curious what people think.
With all the new D1 and D3 programs being added in recent years the talent pool is markedly diluted. I agree that has made for more top heaviness than in the past and much more parity between the mid and low end teams as others have said. Totally disagree with those that said D3 is much stronger now than 5 years ago. Watch some D3 games in person or online and you'll see noticeable differences from conference to conference and upper half to lower half of each conference. Some of the games I've watched lately have been terribly slow moving and sloppy and these are teams I've watched in the past that have very evidently gotten worse than they used to be.
Last edited:
CrossCheck
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Were you watching women's hockey 10 to 15 years ago? If you were, and you watch a decent D3 game now [any nescac game will do]...I can flat out tell you that the game, the speed, the skill, are significantly better than years ago.
If there has been a drop-off in talent, it would be at some of the schools noted by others on here. That is primarily due to over-expansion [think NHL back in the '70's with the advent of the WHA]; and loss of Canadian's getting free tuition at places like Manhattanville and Oswego...that practice has [thankfully] been eliminated by NCAA enforcement.
Were you watching women's hockey 10 to 15 years ago? If you were, and you watch a decent D3 game now [any nescac game will do]...I can flat out tell you that the game, the speed, the skill, are significantly better than years ago.
If there has been a drop-off in talent, it would be at some of the schools noted by others on here. That is primarily due to over-expansion [think NHL back in the '70's with the advent of the WHA]; and loss of Canadian's getting free tuition at places like Manhattanville and Oswego...that practice has [thankfully] been eliminated by NCAA enforcement.
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I was watching back then, but I said, "Totally disagree with those that said D3 is much stronger now than 5 years ago." I did not go back as far as 10-15 years ago when most D3 teams were first starting. Obviously the game is better now than all those years ago. That's a big no-brainer of a statement. The top powers will always be the top powers with very little change for years to come. The rest of the schools have to fight for recruits from the rest of the talent pool that's left over after the best recruits decide to go to Plattsburgh, Elmira, Norwich, Amherst, Middlebury, etc, and that has created a weakened D3 overall this year. We all can see that.
I was watching back then, but I said, "Totally disagree with those that said D3 is much stronger now than 5 years ago." I did not go back as far as 10-15 years ago when most D3 teams were first starting. Obviously the game is better now than all those years ago. That's a big no-brainer of a statement. The top powers will always be the top powers with very little change for years to come. The rest of the schools have to fight for recruits from the rest of the talent pool that's left over after the best recruits decide to go to Plattsburgh, Elmira, Norwich, Amherst, Middlebury, etc, and that has created a weakened D3 overall this year. We all can see that.
gojackets
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
I know reading is hard, however...I said "I've known several boys that are on hockey teams..." I have never met a girl that plays hockey.
Its also really simple: Kaliya Johnson attended the North American Hockey Academy....didn't play hockey in AZ...her family had to send her across the country.
Makenna Newkirk attended Pomfret School in Connecticut to play hockey...didn't play in Arizona...her family had to send her across the country
Amanda Martin went to NAHA...didn't play in Arizona.
It appears Katherin McGovern graduated in Arizona...but played for Colorado Selects.
There aren't the opportunities for girls in AZ as there are for the boys, which was my original point. Girls that have any talent have to leave home.
Arizona has the "Lady Coyotes" but I can't find much after that.
I know reading is hard, however...I said "I've known several boys that are on hockey teams..." I have never met a girl that plays hockey.
Its also really simple: Kaliya Johnson attended the North American Hockey Academy....didn't play hockey in AZ...her family had to send her across the country.
Makenna Newkirk attended Pomfret School in Connecticut to play hockey...didn't play in Arizona...her family had to send her across the country
Amanda Martin went to NAHA...didn't play in Arizona.
It appears Katherin McGovern graduated in Arizona...but played for Colorado Selects.
There aren't the opportunities for girls in AZ as there are for the boys, which was my original point. Girls that have any talent have to leave home.
Arizona has the "Lady Coyotes" but I can't find much after that.
Last edited:
CrossCheck
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Actually not really true. A few years back there was a AAA Club team from AZ....I can't recall the name, but I do recall that they were very competitive with some of the top Club teams around. The very good Weslyean goalie, Rivard, is also from AZ.
Also...while playing in AZ will never be confused with playing in MA or MN...the same can also be said for other places in our country. Many girls leave home to play prep hockey in New England rather than stay in PA, NJ, OH, NY, ME...yada yada.
Also, the Anaheim Lady Ducks [from that hotbed of girls hockey, Southern California]...were at one time National Champions at 12U and top 3 at 14U...so it is possible to develop hockey talent almost anywhere..
Actually not really true. A few years back there was a AAA Club team from AZ....I can't recall the name, but I do recall that they were very competitive with some of the top Club teams around. The very good Weslyean goalie, Rivard, is also from AZ.
Also...while playing in AZ will never be confused with playing in MA or MN...the same can also be said for other places in our country. Many girls leave home to play prep hockey in New England rather than stay in PA, NJ, OH, NY, ME...yada yada.
Also, the Anaheim Lady Ducks [from that hotbed of girls hockey, Southern California]...were at one time National Champions at 12U and top 3 at 14U...so it is possible to develop hockey talent almost anywhere..
gojackets
New member
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
You can...you just have to have the money and the motivation. Those girls are from Scottsdale, Peoria, Chandler...generally wealthy cities in the Valley, their parents probably are from Minnesota and grew up playing hockey. When girls from Maryvale or Tolleson or South Phoenix start playing hockey, we'll talk
According to the D2/D3 hockey map that was posted, there are 16 women from AZ now playing college hockey....4 D1, 12 D3. 2 of them played for the Lady Coyotes...the rest went elsewhere.
You can...you just have to have the money and the motivation. Those girls are from Scottsdale, Peoria, Chandler...generally wealthy cities in the Valley, their parents probably are from Minnesota and grew up playing hockey. When girls from Maryvale or Tolleson or South Phoenix start playing hockey, we'll talk
According to the D2/D3 hockey map that was posted, there are 16 women from AZ now playing college hockey....4 D1, 12 D3. 2 of them played for the Lady Coyotes...the rest went elsewhere.
Last edited:
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: D3 Hockey is back!
Okay, I think we've hit rock bottom. Stevenson beat Daniel Webster 17-0 tonight. Fine. I get that one. But if that wasn't bad enough, the shots were 107-6.
Enough is enough, Daniel Webster. The AD needs to step in and cancel the rest of the season. It's not the girls' fault. You're skating 6 girls on a nightly basis and only dressing one goaltender. This isn't competition. This isn't safe for the girls. Shut it down for the rest of the spring, regroup, recruit some more, and give it another go next fall before you really get someone hurt here.
Okay, I think we've hit rock bottom. Stevenson beat Daniel Webster 17-0 tonight. Fine. I get that one. But if that wasn't bad enough, the shots were 107-6.
Enough is enough, Daniel Webster. The AD needs to step in and cancel the rest of the season. It's not the girls' fault. You're skating 6 girls on a nightly basis and only dressing one goaltender. This isn't competition. This isn't safe for the girls. Shut it down for the rest of the spring, regroup, recruit some more, and give it another go next fall before you really get someone hurt here.
Last edited: