papulaisle
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Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Love the loons...
Love the loons...
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D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
- Thread starter dave1381
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puckskillz
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
How does losing the three Swedes affect UMD? Anyone know if there are there other Europeans having issues with the Clearinghouse?
How does losing the three Swedes affect UMD? Anyone know if there are there other Europeans having issues with the Clearinghouse?
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
This is from Brad Schlossman's blog about a week ago in Grand Forks: http://undhockey.areavoices.com/
Yes, it is August, the calm before the college hockey storm. But it will prove to be an important month for the Sioux women’s team.
UND has recruited a couple of very high profile Europeans in Finnish Olympian Michelle Karvinen and Danish star Josefine Jakobsen.
As we’ve learned, it’s often anybody’s guess as to whether European players will make it through the NCAA Clearinghouse and admissions because of vastly different high school cirriculum in Europe.
Karvinen was outstanding this spring at the IIHF Women’s World Championship, outscoring every European player, both of the Lamoureux twins and former Patty Kaz winner Julie Chu. Imagine another player as potent as the Lamoureux twins on the roster.
Jakobsen was dominant in a lower division (Denmark is not a women’s hockey powerhouse, although Karvinen also has dual Danish citizenship).
The Sioux lost just one senior last year (Steph Roy) from a team that finished one game away from making the NCAA tournament for the first time ever. With another year of development, and perhaps some more depth from guaranteed incoming freshmen like East Grand Forks’ Leah Jensen, the Sioux should be in the mix for home ice and an NCAA bid again.
But adding Karvinen and/or Jakobsen could be big in telling how high the Sioux can go this season. And that will likely be determined in the next month.
This is from Brad Schlossman's blog about a week ago in Grand Forks: http://undhockey.areavoices.com/
Yes, it is August, the calm before the college hockey storm. But it will prove to be an important month for the Sioux women’s team.
UND has recruited a couple of very high profile Europeans in Finnish Olympian Michelle Karvinen and Danish star Josefine Jakobsen.
As we’ve learned, it’s often anybody’s guess as to whether European players will make it through the NCAA Clearinghouse and admissions because of vastly different high school cirriculum in Europe.
Karvinen was outstanding this spring at the IIHF Women’s World Championship, outscoring every European player, both of the Lamoureux twins and former Patty Kaz winner Julie Chu. Imagine another player as potent as the Lamoureux twins on the roster.
Jakobsen was dominant in a lower division (Denmark is not a women’s hockey powerhouse, although Karvinen also has dual Danish citizenship).
The Sioux lost just one senior last year (Steph Roy) from a team that finished one game away from making the NCAA tournament for the first time ever. With another year of development, and perhaps some more depth from guaranteed incoming freshmen like East Grand Forks’ Leah Jensen, the Sioux should be in the mix for home ice and an NCAA bid again.
But adding Karvinen and/or Jakobsen could be big in telling how high the Sioux can go this season. And that will likely be determined in the next month.
CanHockGuy
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Hey Yungblud............ Just curious, are these TRUE freshmen so to speak, or overagers?
Hey Yungblud............ Just curious, are these TRUE freshmen so to speak, or overagers?
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Karvinen is an overager ('90) but not positive on Jakobsen.
Karvinen is an overager ('90) but not positive on Jakobsen.
puckskillz
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Will be interesting to see how this plays out in Grand Forks. Lots of pressure to win in next two years with the twins. Need to win to attract top talent up there. Still hard to bring in top MN/Canadian talent to GF though they are getting players that want to be there with the twins. (Did get the goaltender from Warroad MN and Karvinen). Their strategy seems to be to compete with older players through red-shirting and adding seasoned Europeans (20-21 yr old freshman). 3-4 red-shirts plus 2-3 Euros could make a formidable class. I hope other schools don't adopt the red-shirt approach. There is no NHL and most girls want to get their undergrad done in four years.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out in Grand Forks. Lots of pressure to win in next two years with the twins. Need to win to attract top talent up there. Still hard to bring in top MN/Canadian talent to GF though they are getting players that want to be there with the twins. (Did get the goaltender from Warroad MN and Karvinen). Their strategy seems to be to compete with older players through red-shirting and adding seasoned Europeans (20-21 yr old freshman). 3-4 red-shirts plus 2-3 Euros could make a formidable class. I hope other schools don't adopt the red-shirt approach. There is no NHL and most girls want to get their undergrad done in four years.
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
But I'm not sure why coaches that recruit them deserve special thanks or kudos? Aren't they recruiting them for the same reasons they recruit any player regardless of where they're from? Or maybe there are obstacles or additional difficulty recruiting the European player? Even so I think it's to the benefit of the coaches and their teams and I guess my kudos would go to the European hockey player willing to pack the bags and leave their home country, take the big plunge and give US college hockey and education in a foreign land a shot. Takes some courage I think...maybe even a little more than traveling halfway across the country to do the same.
Having European players playing D-I hockey in the NCAA is great. Most all I've been able to watch are very skilled and very entertaining to watch. I would like to see them begin their collegiate careers at the same age as the typical freshman...predominantly.Major kudos (again) to all the coaches who are activity recruiting European players. Thank you!
But I'm not sure why coaches that recruit them deserve special thanks or kudos? Aren't they recruiting them for the same reasons they recruit any player regardless of where they're from? Or maybe there are obstacles or additional difficulty recruiting the European player? Even so I think it's to the benefit of the coaches and their teams and I guess my kudos would go to the European hockey player willing to pack the bags and leave their home country, take the big plunge and give US college hockey and education in a foreign land a shot. Takes some courage I think...maybe even a little more than traveling halfway across the country to do the same.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
It does seem that European student-athletes are pretty commonplace these days. In the WCHA, SCSU is the only program that I don't remember having a European player, and I could easily be forgetting someone.
European players have to deal with language issues not facing those from North America, outside of a small set of French Canadians. Likely it requires more energy to go through your day when you have to translate everything in your head -- academically, athletically, even socially. Maybe that offsets the benefit of being a couple years older to some extent.
It does seem that European student-athletes are pretty commonplace these days. In the WCHA, SCSU is the only program that I don't remember having a European player, and I could easily be forgetting someone.
96IllinoisDad
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
I'll be politically incorrect. I am not overly impressed with European national team players or their programs. In fact, I was disappointed the 1 tournament I watched in person. If you took the US or Canadian girls who would make the 2nd/3rd/4th team in the US or Canada, I bet they would rise to the occasion and stand out. All of a sudden these girls would get noticed because they would now be the big fish in the small pond. Given the eligibility, language, culture, travel, education bariers ... I'm not so sure I would be going after them as a coach.
I'll be politically incorrect. I am not overly impressed with European national team players or their programs. In fact, I was disappointed the 1 tournament I watched in person. If you took the US or Canadian girls who would make the 2nd/3rd/4th team in the US or Canada, I bet they would rise to the occasion and stand out. All of a sudden these girls would get noticed because they would now be the big fish in the small pond. Given the eligibility, language, culture, travel, education bariers ... I'm not so sure I would be going after them as a coach.
CanHockGuy
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Heck, let's be honest here. They go after them because a few more years of development makes a big difference. Some of them approach their mid twenties. In my opinion, the academic part of the equation now becomes compromised. There are of course some exceptions, but generally I believe that, especially in the west, recruiting is heading in the wrong direction for the wrong reasons. Pro hockey is not in the cards. I do realize many of you will now be thinking that academics has always been secondary in high profile sports; but in women's hockey, I don't know. Let's keep the playing field as fair as possible. Balance is the key to success, and great hockey.
Heck, let's be honest here. They go after them because a few more years of development makes a big difference. Some of them approach their mid twenties. In my opinion, the academic part of the equation now becomes compromised. There are of course some exceptions, but generally I believe that, especially in the west, recruiting is heading in the wrong direction for the wrong reasons. Pro hockey is not in the cards. I do realize many of you will now be thinking that academics has always been secondary in high profile sports; but in women's hockey, I don't know. Let's keep the playing field as fair as possible. Balance is the key to success, and great hockey.
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
quick question for some of you hockey super fans. union college mens team is near the top in national rankings but the womens team appears to struggle over the past few years. womens roster looks strong, great looking staff and facilities, just can't seem to get the wins. Any insight is appreciated.
quick question for some of you hockey super fans. union college mens team is near the top in national rankings but the womens team appears to struggle over the past few years. womens roster looks strong, great looking staff and facilities, just can't seem to get the wins. Any insight is appreciated.
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
granddaddyscout
Registered User
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Are you serious, I don't see many higher end players choosing Union over these three schools if they decide to go the non-scholarship route. So a lack of shcolarships would certainly place them at a major disadvantage. I wasn't aware that they offered no scholarships, I thought it was a limited number. Can anyone confirm? Hux?
Are you serious, I don't see many higher end players choosing Union over these three schools if they decide to go the non-scholarship route. So a lack of shcolarships would certainly place them at a major disadvantage. I wasn't aware that they offered no scholarships, I thought it was a limited number. Can anyone confirm? Hux?
CanHockGuy
New member
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Financial aid only I think.
Financial aid only I think.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
It is my understanding that similar to the Ivies, Union works on an FA premise and does not provide direct athletic based scholarships. The Ivies have large endowment funds, so in some cases FA can be quite generous. Even within the Ivies this (FA money/offers) varies from school to school. Not sure what the endowment situation is at Union, but given the choice of an Ivy over Union, provided everything else is equal, most if not all prospects would favor the Ivy school. There are other non-Ivy D1 schools with more limited scholarship availability (e.g. Colgate), and while scholly amounts alone do not determine the success or lack thereof for a school, there clearly is a direct correlation between financial resources and on ice success.
It is my understanding that similar to the Ivies, Union works on an FA premise and does not provide direct athletic based scholarships. The Ivies have large endowment funds, so in some cases FA can be quite generous. Even within the Ivies this (FA money/offers) varies from school to school. Not sure what the endowment situation is at Union, but given the choice of an Ivy over Union, provided everything else is equal, most if not all prospects would favor the Ivy school. There are other non-Ivy D1 schools with more limited scholarship availability (e.g. Colgate), and while scholly amounts alone do not determine the success or lack thereof for a school, there clearly is a direct correlation between financial resources and on ice success.
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Could this be the stumbling block the Europeans might be having with Clearinghouse? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a new rule on the women's side about having to start the year following graduation?
Could this be the stumbling block the Europeans might be having with Clearinghouse? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a new rule on the women's side about having to start the year following graduation?
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
While it has been mentioned that the biggest challenge for Union women is lack of scholarships, there are no scholarships for the men either. Yet Union's men are doing admirably. The difference between the two is the size of the prospect pool--there are more high calibre men wanting a shot at D1 (and presumably the opportunity of a pro career after that). As the calibre of women's talent continues to improve, and also as the size of the women's talent pool increases, the lack of scholarships should become less and less of an issue for Union.
I think another huge recruiting challenge for Union to date, possibly as big as the lack of scholarships, has been the poor performance of the team historically. Let's face it, it's difficult mentally to play for any team that doesn't win more than a couple of games a season. With any luck, this year may be a turning point for Union in that regard. The team has most definitely been more competitive the last couple of years, with several one goal games. If and when they can post a few more wins over the season, that should provide a recruiting boost.
While it has been mentioned that the biggest challenge for Union women is lack of scholarships, there are no scholarships for the men either. Yet Union's men are doing admirably. The difference between the two is the size of the prospect pool--there are more high calibre men wanting a shot at D1 (and presumably the opportunity of a pro career after that). As the calibre of women's talent continues to improve, and also as the size of the women's talent pool increases, the lack of scholarships should become less and less of an issue for Union.
I think another huge recruiting challenge for Union to date, possibly as big as the lack of scholarships, has been the poor performance of the team historically. Let's face it, it's difficult mentally to play for any team that doesn't win more than a couple of games a season. With any luck, this year may be a turning point for Union in that regard. The team has most definitely been more competitive the last couple of years, with several one goal games. If and when they can post a few more wins over the season, that should provide a recruiting boost.
Hux
Alfond to Ridder & rinks in between
Re: D-I Outlook for 2011-2012: Offseason Musings and Beyond
Well, let's put it this way. Union ain't Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, or Cornell as far a marque value is concerned. If Union had scholarships they would have a lot better luck attracting the players that would make them competitive.
And as I understand it, Union has a nice little kitty that they are able to dip into for the International students.....ah, cough, male hockey players. (I believe it was also an enticement for one of the current speedy players on the women's team as well)
Well, let's put it this way. Union ain't Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Princeton, or Cornell as far a marque value is concerned. If Union had scholarships they would have a lot better luck attracting the players that would make them competitive.
And as I understand it, Union has a nice little kitty that they are able to dip into for the International students.....ah, cough, male hockey players. (I believe it was also an enticement for one of the current speedy players on the women's team as well)
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