COVID-19 - Part 2

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Whatever. I have heard his comments. If older people feel like they are ok with putting their lives at risk so that the economy survives...knock yourselves right out. I for one..want to live.

So you're good with letting the economy disintegrate then, HR? No social security, no pension, no health care, martial law, etc.? Older folks like us having to leave homes we cherish to move back in with extended families, basic social services lost or greatly curtailed? Those are paid for by taxes … and who pays those taxes if people aren't working? Socialism instead of democracy??

EVERYTHING is at risk if the economy tanks. We're not talking 2008 here; we'd be talking 1929, or worse.

We ALL want to live. No one wants to "kill old people". That's irresponsible media-driven hysteria.

FWIW some of us may be less interested in mere existence where our freedoms no longer exist.

Not picking on you HR, lots of folks seem to share your sentiment.

Just seems to me there's a lot of things being taken for granted ...

 

[manurespreader]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

So you're good with letting the economy disintegrate then, HR? No social security, no pension, no health care, martial law, etc.? Older folks like us having to leave homes we cherish to move back in with extended families, basic social services lost or greatly curtailed? Those are paid for by taxes … and who pays those taxes if people aren't working? Socialism instead of democracy??

EVERYTHING is at risk if the economy tanks. We're not talking 2008 here; we'd be talking 1929, or worse.

We ALL want to live. No one wants to "kill old people". That's irresponsible media-driven hysteria.

FWIW some of us may be less interested in mere existence where our freedoms no longer exist.

Not picking on you HR, lots of folks seem to share your sentiment.

Just seems to me there's a lot of things being taken for granted ...

The economy is not disintegrating chuck. THAT is media hype and fake news. Will there be less, sure, will there be lower employment etc. sure, but disintegrate, no way.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

We were able to give the wealthiest tax break after tax break. We were able to bail out Wall Street, banks, allow corporations to pay virtually nothing in taxes. The economy will disintegrate but we have $6T to throw around to boost it back up. Funny we never had that for infrastructure, health care, education...

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

So you're good with letting the economy disintegrate then, HR? No social security, no pension, no health care, martial law, etc.? Older folks like us having to leave homes we cherish to move back in with extended families, basic social services lost or greatly curtailed? Those are paid for by taxes … and who pays those taxes if people aren't working? Socialism instead of democracy??

EVERYTHING is at risk if the economy tanks. We're not talking 2008 here; we'd be talking 1929, or worse.

You have no factual evidence of this. Z.E.R.O. The statements you've been making for the past few days are based solely on your personal feelings. Do you have any hard economic data to back any of this up? And "Gee, what else could you morons possibly conclude?" is not factual economic data which is the only thing you've brought to the table so far.

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

We were able to give the wealthiest tax break after tax break. We were able to bail out Wall Street, banks, allow corporations to pay virtually nothing in taxes. The economy will disintegrate but we have $6T to throw around to boost it back up. Funny we never had that for infrastructure, health care, education...

+1

We all knew we were spending the rainy day "fund" (actually already a deficit) when we front loaded monies to the rich, on the bogus assumption we would grow the economy at 3% for the next ten years, when it would pay for itself. That maxing out of the credit card kind of blocks any arguments about the havoc of another trillion. Remember the hue and cry from the right about debt caused by the Obama bailout in 2008 (that actually did pay for itself)? They sure were fine with the bogus projections that, if not hit, would blow a hole in the National Debt.

The reason you keep a rainy day fund is because occasionally it actually rains. Just leaving another hole for the Democrats to fix when they take over.


(I hear Susan Collins is deeply troubled by the forecast of rain)

A.The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act cut taxes substantially from 2018 through 2025. The resulting deficits will add $1 to $2 trillion to the federal debt, according to official estimates. The debt increase will be larger if some of TCJA’s temporary tax cuts are extended.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-did-tcja-affect-federal-budget-outlook

So, basically the cost of this bailout.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

So you're good with letting the economy disintegrate then, HR? No social security, no pension, no health care, martial law, etc.? Older folks like us having to leave homes we cherish to move back in with extended families, basic social services lost or greatly curtailed? Those are paid for by taxes … and who pays those taxes if people aren't working? Socialism instead of democracy??

EVERYTHING is at risk if the economy tanks. We're not talking 2008 here; we'd be talking 1929, or worse.

We ALL want to live. No one wants to "kill old people". That's irresponsible media-driven hysteria.

FWIW some of us may be less interested in mere existence where our freedoms no longer exist.

Not picking on you HR, lots of folks seem to share your sentiment.

Just seems to me there's a lot of things being taken for granted ...

Oh, come on, who's being an alarmist NOW Chuck? Of course I do not want to see the economy disintegrate. Give me a break. Like I said, I know I'm fortunate (and my husband) to be in jobs that are paying us our salary. It makes me very sad that small business and others stuck in this nightmare are struggling. But in this country, seems like the rich get their bailout, are supposed to be infusing the economy, what do they do? Stock buy backs. Good old Reagan economics that didn't work then, and it doesn't work now. (but that's another thread) And they are about to get another one in the stimulus package. Funny they have enough money for this but, as others have pointed out below of this post, there's not enough out there for other badly needed things? Etc. But everyday people like myself are not helping the situation by wanting to save our lives and the lives our loved ones are taking things for granted?

Right now the country is desperate for some real action by the President...that's what 'lots of folks' want to see. When I see the President saying 'we'll work with you but you have to be nice to us" I mean, WTAF. Always a condition with him...always. ME FIRST. NYC needed those ventilators yesterday. Cuomo wants and needs the President to release the DPA NOW...this would be over alot quicker and we could all get back to work. Why isn't that happening???? Trump sounds like the mayor in the movie "Jaws" (Amity is open for business folks, but, ignore the great white shark that's lurking not more than 10 feet from where you swim) only, this is for real. Maybe when it touches someone he cares about...

As per killing old people, that's just what is going to happen if we 'open up the country' if it's not safe to do so. And heck, not only them; I'm reading story after story about younger people getting this and hanging onto life. The virus doesn't really give a darn about where you live. If you have paid attention to any of the science on this, what's not an issue today, can be an issue tomorrow. I realize the President will make his decisions (hopefully) by the guidance of his medical advisors (who, should only be making these decisions I don't care who the President is). I suppose you think Andrew Cuomo is being an alarmist....

Look, I could get killed today in my car. I could die alot of other ways than this virus. But, I'm not going to take for granted the only thing I really have control over, and that's my health and the health of my family. If that's not the priority right now, I do not know what the he** is!!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

We were able to give the wealthiest tax break after tax break. We were able to bail out Wall Street, banks, allow corporations to pay virtually nothing in taxes. The economy will disintegrate but we have $6T to throw around to boost it back up. Funny we never had that for infrastructure, health care, education...

+1

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

So you're good with letting the economy disintegrate then, HR? No social security, no pension, no health care, martial law, etc.? Older folks like us having to leave homes we cherish to move back in with extended families, basic social services lost or greatly curtailed? Those are paid for by taxes … and who pays those taxes if people aren't working? Socialism instead of democracy??

EVERYTHING is at risk if the economy tanks. We're not talking 2008 here; we'd be talking 1929, or worse.

We ALL want to live. No one wants to "kill old people". That's irresponsible media-driven hysteria.

FWIW some of us may be less interested in mere existence where our freedoms no longer exist.

Not picking on you HR, lots of folks seem to share your sentiment.

Just seems to me there's a lot of things being taken for granted ...

Seems extreme.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

OK, not too hard to follow … right now, the package that has been passed covers things for a few weeks. Some on here want this to shut down for months, maybe even a year. But let's focus on "months". That package that just got passed, it's not going to last to cover for months. There would need to be more similar packages. $2T becomes $4T, becomes maybe $10T. The Treasury has to print money. Inflation - something that's been in check for a generation or more - creeps (maybe bursts) into the picture. Money is devalued, and retirement plans/pensions deflate. This is why the markets were down almost 40% at their nadir the other day.

I hope most of you will notice my main concern is with small businesses here - Main Street USA, the ones who provide the jobs, and which make our economy stronger than (say) France. Middle class business. Hey, I'm fortunate, I work for a global company and we're fully open and operational. My employment situation is probably closer to many of the public sector folks on here now (and let's be honest - USCHO caters to college hockey, a lot of folks on here are tied to colleges, there is an inherent slant towards academia, so I'm not exactly the "home team" coming on here with my viewpoint and opinions, I get it), but that could change if things linger and get bad enough. Just as it could for teachers and firemen and law enforcement, etc. if the tax base erodes. If you think otherwise, hey, maybe you're a little too comfortable in your own situations. But if it all goes down, there aren't any guarantees. None. Some folks react by buying too much TP. Other folks react by buying guns and ammo. It's real.

If we're talking blame and Presidents … there's been a LONG line of them, and a LONGER line of reps and senators who've kicked the can down the road for decades now. Both sides of the aisle. We're doing it again, right now. At some point - and increasingly likely that could be in most of our lifetimes (including mine) - it ends up going a step too far. And it gets painful, for everyone.

The only thing that keeps the country grinding forward is the economy.

And the only thing that keeps the economy going forward is work.

Again, I didn't think it was all that complicated ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Given the revved up partisanship on here this morning, I figured I'll share this bit, where <s>President</s> Dr. Fauci gives an interview (it's linked at the base of the item) pleading with the media to stop trying to drive a false narrative pitting him against the President. This is not unlike discussions several of us have had earlier in this thread, and in the past thread ...

https://townhall.com/columnists/lar...57af8e2192660997ac94ea5c30cd25&recip=27247798

"It seems like increasingly a bunch of the questions from the media are designed to create a rift between you and the president of the United States," asked co-host Vince Coglianese, "are you sensing that as the media continually asks you questions about the differences you have with him?"

"That is really unfortunate. I would wish that that would stop because we have a much bigger problem here than trying to point out differences," Fauci said. "There really, fundamentally at the core when you look at things, there are not differences. The president has listened to what I have said and what the other people on the task force have said. When I've made recommendations, he has taken them. He has never countered or overridden me. The idea of pitting one against the other is just not helpful. I wish that would stop and we'd look ahead at the challenge we have to pull together to get over this thing."

In the same interview, Fauci noted that his responsibility is to solely focus on defeating the disease while the president has a larger responsibility. "The president has the awesome responsibility of considering every aspect of this," he said. "I just give public health advice completely clean, unconnected with anything else. He has to factor in other things."

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

We were able to give the wealthiest tax break after tax break. We were able to bail out Wall Street, banks, allow corporations to pay virtually nothing in taxes. The economy will disintegrate but we have $6T to throw around to boost it back up. Funny we never had that for infrastructure, health care, education...

Infrastructure should have gotten done, but it died on the rocks of "Russia Russia Russia" and the phony Ukraine whistleblower impeachment gambit, which BTW Congress was still wasting its time with when COVID-19 was gradually sneaking up on us all.

Education funding - at the college/university level, it arguably is THE problem, since the increases in the cost of higher education has FAR outstripped the increased costs of living everywhere else in the economy. Student loan availability, tuition rising well over the cost of living, over 40 years now at least (first year tuition at a private college in '79 for me was $3,750 - it was almost double when in graduated in '83, and it's hardly abated since), higher education has been subsidized by the Feds, and prestigious colleges amass billion dollar endowments, while students often leave mired in six figure debts that stymie things like families, homes, etc.

The best thing the Federal Government can do education-wise is to reallocate funds for colleges instead to pre-college schooling.

And yes, I just posted that on US College Hockey Online. I sense a long suspension looms …

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

The government is missing the point, should provide an income stream ($500/week/adult, $250/week/dependent child) to individuals for two months. Hopefully the money is spent locally giving small businesses and individuals some day to day stress relief. I shudder thinking about the extraneous crap each side has inserted to the bill.

Using the airline industry as an example and BTW, Boeing's CEO is leaning to NOT taking government aid IF it means giving the government an equity position in Boeing*, IF the airlines were to fail, then what? The crappy airlines like American and United? Going with the old person dying analogy, maybe it is their time. Airlines like Southwest, Jetblue with viable business models? They likely emerge as less than they were 2 weeks ago, but they emerge as viable business entities. If they all fail? Well, there will be lots of opportunities for start ups to find good deals on planes, gates, ground equipment and non (legacy) union labor.

Right now, the government needs to nationalize the airline industry, consolidate planes and routes to keep cargo and mail moving, eliminate all but 100% certifiable essential passenger travel. That someone can currently can fly from New York to any of the relatively unaffected parts of the country is unconscionable. I would think someone like Steve Bannon is telling the President that he needs to keep the infection where it is, with the coastal liberal elites, not let it move to the the heartland base.

* - I'd love to sit down with Bernie over a beer and hear his Socialist take on this.

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

Given the revved up partisanship on here this morning...

Yeah, who started that anyway?

 

[HockeyRef]

Yeah, who started that anyway?

Not me...I just want to live long enough to have grandchildren..

 

[French Rage]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

This thread makes me even happier that the Nats won the World Series last year.

 

[joecct]

Not me...I just want to live long enough to have grandchildren..

6.875 and counting

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

(Sung to The Doors Touch Me)

Don't Touch Me

Yeah! Come on, come on, come on, come on
Don't touch me, babe
Can't you see that I am super afraid?
What was that promise that you made?
Social Distancing is what she said?
What was that promise that you made?

Now, I'm going to love you
From at least 6 feet away
I'm going to love you
'Til the covid falls from the sky for you and I..

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

BTW Congress was still wasting its time with when COVID-19 was gradually sneaking up on us all.

So the guy who dismantled the preparedness team (was it him, I don't think so, he doesn't remember doing it, so let's ignore that), and then called it a hoax for the first two months instead of preparing, is now excused, and it is "Congress" is to blame -- presumably the obstructionist democrats, amirite?

You realize if we had prepared the response today wouldn't need to be as broad, and could be more surgical, but the lack of testing made it 300 X worse?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

So the guy who dismantled the preparedness team (was it him, I don't think so, he doesn't remember doing it, so let's ignore that), and then called it a hoax for the first two months instead of preparing, is now excused, and it is "Congress" is to blame -- presumably the obstructionist democrats, amirite?

You realize if we had prepared the response today wouldn't need to be as broad, and could be more surgical, but the lack of testing made it 300 X worse?

The supposed "lack of preparedness" thing frankly is a little overstated, and starting to sound like political "talking points" at this point, 'Watcher. There are always going to be some areas where it's worse than others - in Italy, I guess it's in the north, and in the US, it was Washington State and is now NYC/Tri-State region. The percentage of deaths per diagnosed cases in the US is now pretty much on par (1.2%) with the supposedly "most prepared" large countries in the world (i.e. oft-cited South Korea) and per the most recent graph in the attached article, was only behind global leaders Germany:

https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...y-country-based-on-case-fatality-ratio-2020-3

The US death ratio - likely as a function of increased testing activities - has been steadily falling. It's approaching the 1% that most long-range predictions had stated - and nothing even remotely approaching the "Italy Italy Italy" scaremongering tactics many were uttering on these boards at this time last week. I know - it's a morbid topic, and the numbers represent real people - but this is the data we've been left with to measure. And while an overall "lack of preparedness" is a legitimate criticism, it seems most of the larger countries (faced with the biggest logistical challenges) fell afoul of the same thing, yet we're still doing better that virtually everyone except Germany. That's not an opinion - that's data, that's the cold hard math. It's as factual as we get.

As to the "hoax" thing, I believe there is a 120 word gap between Trump's reference to COVID-19 and "hoax" in that bit - not at all unlike some of the creative wordsmithing Pelosi & Co. did to try to construct the Ukraine narrative. But I'll revisit that later ...

Be back later, think positive thoughts folks!!!

 

[Darius]

Re: COVID-19 - Part 2

As to the "hoax" thing, I believe there is a 120 word gap between Trump's reference to COVID-19 and "hoax" in that bit - not at all unlike some of the creative wordsmithing Pelosi & Co. did to try to construct the Ukraine narrative. But I'll revisit that later ...

Were they different words formulated into structured sentences resulting in a a cogent thought?