Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Norms are cute but force is the basis of social reality.
Norms are cute but force is the basis of social reality.
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Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
and here is was going to be the soviets who bought the rope off the us to hang them with
and here is was going to be the soviets who bought the rope off the us to hang them with
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
About cancer and other diseases in the context of Covid. Several weeks ago, before many states adopted SIP, including Wisconsin, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. It was discovered as a result of other difficulties I was experiencing, which led to an ER visit and the testing that revealed the C. As is usually the case, they moved swiftly, and I have already had surgery and all the associated tissue testing. Things look good for me, and I appear to have dodged that bullet. I have reason to think the swift response by the hospital, the various labs and numerous experts was a factor, though I don't know that for sure. What I am saying is that the risk of allowing Covid to overwhelm the medical care system is not limited to Covid patients. In fact, I suspect the primary risk is the care providers' inability to timely respond to all the other life threatening acute care situations which they deal with every day and which are unrelated to Covid.
I know you were not ignoring that factor, Hovey--you are more logical than that--but my own anecdotal experience prompted me to point that out.
I haven't been following this thread closely to know whether this has been discussed at length, but another compelling but darker question is the herd-culling capacity of this pandemic and all the related ethical and existential questions. I think a lot of people are more than willing to just sit back and this natural disaster cull the weakest and most vulnerable from the herd.
About cancer and other diseases in the context of Covid. Several weeks ago, before many states adopted SIP, including Wisconsin, I was diagnosed with colon cancer. It was discovered as a result of other difficulties I was experiencing, which led to an ER visit and the testing that revealed the C. As is usually the case, they moved swiftly, and I have already had surgery and all the associated tissue testing. Things look good for me, and I appear to have dodged that bullet. I have reason to think the swift response by the hospital, the various labs and numerous experts was a factor, though I don't know that for sure. What I am saying is that the risk of allowing Covid to overwhelm the medical care system is not limited to Covid patients. In fact, I suspect the primary risk is the care providers' inability to timely respond to all the other life threatening acute care situations which they deal with every day and which are unrelated to Covid.
I know you were not ignoring that factor, Hovey--you are more logical than that--but my own anecdotal experience prompted me to point that out.
I haven't been following this thread closely to know whether this has been discussed at length, but another compelling but darker question is the herd-culling capacity of this pandemic and all the related ethical and existential questions. I think a lot of people are more than willing to just sit back and this natural disaster cull the weakest and most vulnerable from the herd.
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
I'm not certain there is going to be anything I'll need to admit.
Maybe, but we all know when you guys will admit it.
I'm not certain there is going to be anything I'll need to admit.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Apparently these guys arent very happy Dr. Brix is misrepresenting their findings...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/unload?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@unload</a> Here’s your unroll: <a href="https://t.co/yHf2NvNKk1">https://t.co/yHf2NvNKk1</a></p>— Thread Reader App (@threadreaderapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/threadreaderapp/status/1243404568941060098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Apparently these guys arent very happy Dr. Brix is misrepresenting their findings...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/unload?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@unload</a> Here’s your unroll: <a href="https://t.co/yHf2NvNKk1">https://t.co/yHf2NvNKk1</a></p>— Thread Reader App (@threadreaderapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/threadreaderapp/status/1243404568941060098?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My partner, the doctor, rolling her eyes: tell them I don’t want their claps and cheers during a pandemic, I want them to stop voting like dummies for sociopaths who don’t want them to have decent healthcare systems at all in the first place</p>—
(@umairh) <a href="https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1243312125793181696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My partner, the doctor, rolling her eyes: tell them I don’t want their claps and cheers during a pandemic, I want them to stop voting like dummies for sociopaths who don’t want them to have decent healthcare systems at all in the first place</p>—
(@umairh) <a href="https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1243312125793181696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
I understand. I personally have had a surgery delayed. It won't kill me (it certainly shouldn't anyway) but I get that there are people who will be in car accidents who will be brought to hospitals that are stressed due to covid-19, and may not be able to get all the treatment they need.
I get all of that, and I've had no objection to the social distancing or stay at home orders.
My primary grievance, if you want to call it that, has been with the large and wild guesses everyone throws around about how many people will be infected and how many people will die because of this. It only causes harm and misinformation, it doesn't help.
I understand. I personally have had a surgery delayed. It won't kill me (it certainly shouldn't anyway) but I get that there are people who will be in car accidents who will be brought to hospitals that are stressed due to covid-19, and may not be able to get all the treatment they need.
I get all of that, and I've had no objection to the social distancing or stay at home orders.
My primary grievance, if you want to call it that, has been with the large and wild guesses everyone throws around about how many people will be infected and how many people will die because of this. It only causes harm and misinformation, it doesn't help.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!! <a href="https://twitter.com/generalmotors?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GeneralMotors</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Ford?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ford</a></p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243559373395410957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!! <a href="https://twitter.com/generalmotors?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GeneralMotors</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Ford?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ford</a></p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243559373395410957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Unfortunately, emotional speculation is something most of us engage in when we're stressed. Still, if overestimating the effects of this disease causes people to take social distancing more seriously, then it is likely doing more good than harm.
Unfortunately, emotional speculation is something most of us engage in when we're stressed. Still, if overestimating the effects of this disease causes people to take social distancing more seriously, then it is likely doing more good than harm.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Piggybacking on dx’s post about Hawaii, Alaska has mandated a two-week quarantine for anyone who comes from outside the state. No SIP order yet though Anchorage has issued a “hunker down” order and the state has closed schools and restaurants until May. Rural legislators are practically begging for a SIP order to stop the spread to rural villages (who have s-ty health care).
Piggybacking on dx’s post about Hawaii, Alaska has mandated a two-week quarantine for anyone who comes from outside the state. No SIP order yet though Anchorage has issued a “hunker down” order and the state has closed schools and restaurants until May. Rural legislators are practically begging for a SIP order to stop the spread to rural villages (who have s-ty health care).
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Why accept preventable deaths???? Why?
We have two very clear paths- interrupt and prevent so that the actual deaths is pretty small, or half *** at and let the actual deaths be high. Why choose high when there's a low choice??? It's also one thing to accept the abstract concept that people will die, but it's totally another when you ask the exact same question to your family and friends- which ones of those are you willing to let go?
There are tons of laws on the books that prevent a lot of huge $$ made to save a small part of the public via preventable deaths. How is this different??
On the "dying" part of your post...people will die. A lot of people. I hate that this is a fact, but I have accepted it. Do I want that? Hell no. But I cannot really change that fact, and you can't either. It sucks.
Why accept preventable deaths???? Why?
We have two very clear paths- interrupt and prevent so that the actual deaths is pretty small, or half *** at and let the actual deaths be high. Why choose high when there's a low choice??? It's also one thing to accept the abstract concept that people will die, but it's totally another when you ask the exact same question to your family and friends- which ones of those are you willing to let go?
There are tons of laws on the books that prevent a lot of huge $$ made to save a small part of the public via preventable deaths. How is this different??
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
He has the Defense Production Act to do this. Does he not know? I mean, of course he doesn't know, but do the idiots around him n--. Never mind.
He has the Defense Production Act to do this. Does he not know? I mean, of course he doesn't know, but do the idiots around him n--. Never mind.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Oh really, dumb ****s? You had a chance to severely lessen this and you sat around and screamed hoax.
“ Dr. Scott Gottlieb, President Trump's former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner, is warning that the coronavirus epidemic in the United States is "likely to be national in scope."
"I’m worried about emerging situations in New Orleans, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, among others. In China no province outside Hubei ever had more than 1,500 cases. In U.S. 11 states already hit that total."
Oh really, dumb ****s? You had a chance to severely lessen this and you sat around and screamed hoax.
“ Dr. Scott Gottlieb, President Trump's former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner, is warning that the coronavirus epidemic in the United States is "likely to be national in scope."
"I’m worried about emerging situations in New Orleans, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, among others. In China no province outside Hubei ever had more than 1,500 cases. In U.S. 11 states already hit that total."
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Because everyone reacted so late, there will be deaths that are not preventable. Again, I don't like that fact, but I've accepted it. They either can't get help, or won't get help. Even worse, their body cannot deal with it whatsoever and their body just shuts down before they even have a chance to get help.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
One thing you can do is vote for candidates who are not of the party that thinks public health is a joke and a hoax
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
Here's the thing- we have two paths we can follow- S Korea or Italy.
In one case, X% of the population gets it, and 0.1% of them die. In that case, people who die of other reasons are not increased because the system is working properly.
In the other case, the same X% of the population gets it, but 3% of them die, and in addition to that- other forms of death spike due to the system not being able to care for them.
This isn't a guess, this is what exactly is happening in other parts of the world.
Why choose more deaths???? Seems to me that this country is so obsessed with money that it's the primary weighing factor when it comes to how we deal with it. Which is kind of sad- if I were told to come back to work so that I can make $15/hr so that my isolated managers and owners can make huge dollars, it would certainly make me pause and ask if it's really worth it.
Yes, we don't have exact numbers of how many people will be infected, nor the final death rate. But to sit back and pretend that there's nothing we can do about it when we see REAL effects of efforts around the world, and then accept the abstract idea that just more people are going to die is pretty short sighted.
There'e more to life than to just make a buck.
Here's the thing- we have two paths we can follow- S Korea or Italy.
In one case, X% of the population gets it, and 0.1% of them die. In that case, people who die of other reasons are not increased because the system is working properly.
In the other case, the same X% of the population gets it, but 3% of them die, and in addition to that- other forms of death spike due to the system not being able to care for them.
This isn't a guess, this is what exactly is happening in other parts of the world.
Why choose more deaths???? Seems to me that this country is so obsessed with money that it's the primary weighing factor when it comes to how we deal with it. Which is kind of sad- if I were told to come back to work so that I can make $15/hr so that my isolated managers and owners can make huge dollars, it would certainly make me pause and ask if it's really worth it.
Yes, we don't have exact numbers of how many people will be infected, nor the final death rate. But to sit back and pretend that there's nothing we can do about it when we see REAL effects of efforts around the world, and then accept the abstract idea that just more people are going to die is pretty short sighted.
There'e more to life than to just make a buck.
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
I'll be curious as to what level of effect the shuttering of "non-essential" businesses is really having. It seems most businesses in most states are being deemed "essential." Many of the orders the various governors have issued have similar or even identical language. Wisconsin's order even states that in the "extraordinary circumstance" your business is NOT listed among the essential ones that can remain open, you should seek out the opinion of state officials who will assist you in determining if in fact you could stay open for business.
I have union members in 3 different states and not a single one has been furloughed as a result. A few have been offered the opportunity to stay home for the duration (none of my members can work from home), but other than using up earned paid-time-off, it would be without pay if it is their choice. Many will be eligible for unemployment insurance if their employer sends them home. But again, not a single one has had their business closed and of employers in 13 different locations, only one does work that I think it remotely critical to maintaining any necessary infrastructure.
I realize a huge number of people have seen their employment disrupted or ended by this, and for them that sucks. But if we're really interested in social distancing and "safer at home" measures, what we're doing as far as employment does not seem to be nearly enough. Some of these governors of course know if they go as far as they probably should their legislatures, many benefitting from overwhelmingly gerrymandered republican super majorities, will scream bloody murder and moan about the effect on the economy. Well, if 20% of the workforce is going to be shut down anyway, we're in for a wild economic ride no matter what. You may as well actually make it effective. We should have had a nationwide shutdown 3 weeks ago of virtually all work. Had that happened, I bet trump's wet dream about Easter might have actually been possible.
I'll be curious as to what level of effect the shuttering of "non-essential" businesses is really having. It seems most businesses in most states are being deemed "essential." Many of the orders the various governors have issued have similar or even identical language. Wisconsin's order even states that in the "extraordinary circumstance" your business is NOT listed among the essential ones that can remain open, you should seek out the opinion of state officials who will assist you in determining if in fact you could stay open for business.
I have union members in 3 different states and not a single one has been furloughed as a result. A few have been offered the opportunity to stay home for the duration (none of my members can work from home), but other than using up earned paid-time-off, it would be without pay if it is their choice. Many will be eligible for unemployment insurance if their employer sends them home. But again, not a single one has had their business closed and of employers in 13 different locations, only one does work that I think it remotely critical to maintaining any necessary infrastructure.
I realize a huge number of people have seen their employment disrupted or ended by this, and for them that sucks. But if we're really interested in social distancing and "safer at home" measures, what we're doing as far as employment does not seem to be nearly enough. Some of these governors of course know if they go as far as they probably should their legislatures, many benefitting from overwhelmingly gerrymandered republican super majorities, will scream bloody murder and moan about the effect on the economy. Well, if 20% of the workforce is going to be shut down anyway, we're in for a wild economic ride no matter what. You may as well actually make it effective. We should have had a nationwide shutdown 3 weeks ago of virtually all work. Had that happened, I bet trump's wet dream about Easter might have actually been possible.
Re: Covfefe-19: We're all getting $5/hour more in hazard pay!
So does that mean you 100% accept not being able to take any help for you and ALL of your family if any of you get sick? We are not talking the family members you don't get along with, but the ones you love the most. Stop thinking in the abstract and back to the real.
Other people are not willing to go that far.
And there is still more we can do.
So does that mean you 100% accept not being able to take any help for you and ALL of your family if any of you get sick? We are not talking the family members you don't get along with, but the ones you love the most. Stop thinking in the abstract and back to the real.
Other people are not willing to go that far.
And there is still more we can do.
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