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Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Hovey, although your statement is true on its face, like many things in life it's about the degree of truth considering all of the other associated factors involved. In this country alone, we've now lost almost 60K people since early February. And, as almost all of the recent reporting is suggesting, that's probably significantly lower than what the true Covid death toll is. We've reached that number in just under 90 days. Our very worst flu seasons top out at around 60K as well but, that's over the span of 12 months. Aren't you able to acknowledge that this situation is vastly different than a normal flu virus? In that, it is likely much more lethal, it's rate of infection is much higher, along with the fact that without the significant "buy in" to the shelter-in-place orders around the country the last 30 plus days, the death tolls would've been MUCH HIGHER, as well as leaving no doubt that our health care system would have certainly become overwhelmed on a national level.
I realize you've stated you didn't vote for Trump. Fine, I don't know you so I'll take you at your word. Still, lately your comments have seemed to take on an angle or tone that seems to indicate you disagree with the amount of criticism that many on here have leveled at Trump, especially in regards to his handling of the virus. It's almost as if you and "Sic" are the same person.
Oh, and a shout out to Sic, if Trump's handling of the virus isn't the "manila envelope" you were waiting for, than that puppy isn't ever landing on your front stoop my friend. 
Hovey, although your statement is true on its face, like many things in life it's about the degree of truth considering all of the other associated factors involved. In this country alone, we've now lost almost 60K people since early February. And, as almost all of the recent reporting is suggesting, that's probably significantly lower than what the true Covid death toll is. We've reached that number in just under 90 days. Our very worst flu seasons top out at around 60K as well but, that's over the span of 12 months. Aren't you able to acknowledge that this situation is vastly different than a normal flu virus? In that, it is likely much more lethal, it's rate of infection is much higher, along with the fact that without the significant "buy in" to the shelter-in-place orders around the country the last 30 plus days, the death tolls would've been MUCH HIGHER, as well as leaving no doubt that our health care system would have certainly become overwhelmed on a national level.
I realize you've stated you didn't vote for Trump. Fine, I don't know you so I'll take you at your word. Still, lately your comments have seemed to take on an angle or tone that seems to indicate you disagree with the amount of criticism that many on here have leveled at Trump, especially in regards to his handling of the virus. It's almost as if you and "Sic" are the same person.
Oh, and a shout out to Sic, if Trump's handling of the virus isn't the "manila envelope" you were waiting for, than that puppy isn't ever landing on your front stoop my friend. 
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
New seating on airplanes? https://www.designboom.com/design/reverse-airplane-seating-fly-post-covid-19-04-27-2020/ Should have done this a long time ago.
I can see weight issues and other things airlines won't like. Tickets thru the roof to pay for it all.
New seating on airplanes? https://www.designboom.com/design/reverse-airplane-seating-fly-post-covid-19-04-27-2020/ Should have done this a long time ago.
I can see weight issues and other things airlines won't like. Tickets thru the roof to pay for it all.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That ‘somebody’ is you, babe. <a href="https://t.co/0Kie7c4h1R">https://t.co/0Kie7c4h1R</a></p>— Soledad O'Brien (@soledadobrien) <a href="https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/1254894181195157509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That ‘somebody’ is you, babe. <a href="https://t.co/0Kie7c4h1R">https://t.co/0Kie7c4h1R</a></p>— Soledad O'Brien (@soledadobrien) <a href="https://twitter.com/soledadobrien/status/1254894181195157509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
So you are saying that this virus is just like every other one, so that we should just treat it like the flu and accept the risk?
Last I checked, there has not been a virus in 100 years that overwhelmed the healthcare system even when social distancing was in place.
If you want to open thing back up with no regard, lets start with your state- it's not as if your area has not had to close important plants because of the virus, is it...
After so long and seeing so many people in the hospital at the same time with more deaths than a normal year of flu- in a shorter time and with some distancing- we still have people out there that want to somehow equate the risks and consequences of the annual influenza and COVID19 is kind of surprising. The evidence out there of the differences is pretty clear and obvious, let alone very repeatable.
This is different. When are you planning on accepting that?
So you are saying that this virus is just like every other one, so that we should just treat it like the flu and accept the risk?
Last I checked, there has not been a virus in 100 years that overwhelmed the healthcare system even when social distancing was in place.
If you want to open thing back up with no regard, lets start with your state- it's not as if your area has not had to close important plants because of the virus, is it...
After so long and seeing so many people in the hospital at the same time with more deaths than a normal year of flu- in a shorter time and with some distancing- we still have people out there that want to somehow equate the risks and consequences of the annual influenza and COVID19 is kind of surprising. The evidence out there of the differences is pretty clear and obvious, let alone very repeatable.
This is different. When are you planning on accepting that?
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Act early, and the economy would not face whatever the economic impact ends up being. Having a handful of people being worried and some panicking is a lot better than forcing governors around the country have to shut down their states due to public health reasons.
Something that was said a LOT by a LOT of people. Including this board.
dumpy- help the real problem- just resign already. You've done so much more harm than good, it's not even funny.
Act early, and the economy would not face whatever the economic impact ends up being. Having a handful of people being worried and some panicking is a lot better than forcing governors around the country have to shut down their states due to public health reasons.
Something that was said a LOT by a LOT of people. Including this board.
dumpy- help the real problem- just resign already. You've done so much more harm than good, it's not even funny.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
The juxtaposition of my friends on my Facebook feed is sometimes startling.
<img width=400 src=https://imgur.com/B4ldMhC.jpg>
The juxtaposition of my friends on my Facebook feed is sometimes startling.
<img width=400 src=https://imgur.com/B4ldMhC.jpg>
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
There isn’t a real single person working the front lines in hard hit cities who would say that.
I know it’s from the NY Post, which is a sign of a different type, but this is probably some idiot loosely associated with treatment of COVID cases in a state like Montana. You don’t see doctors in NYC coming home from work with bloodied lines on their face from PPE, living in separate rooms or even floors from the rest of their family saying, “Yeah, I think we’ve got this.”
Those people don’t exist.
There isn’t a real single person working the front lines in hard hit cities who would say that.
I know it’s from the NY Post, which is a sign of a different type, but this is probably some idiot loosely associated with treatment of COVID cases in a state like Montana. You don’t see doctors in NYC coming home from work with bloodied lines on their face from PPE, living in separate rooms or even floors from the rest of their family saying, “Yeah, I think we’ve got this.”
Those people don’t exist.
All I keep seeing is a poorly drawn single testicle *****. Is this some sort of freaky Rorschach test?
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Well, I was wrong. But the doctor makes some astonishingly stupid arguments.
1. Hospital calls are down to half of their peak, which is more in line with daily averages. He argues this is a reason to open up. That’s like saying, the forest fire is put out, feel free to start fires in the forest again. Which leads me to the second...
2. He’s somehow skeptical of social distancing. That’s just... lunacy. I can understand an argument that social distancing is hurting the economy. It is. But it’s absolutely keeping this thing at bay. Infections are still slowly coming down linearly. Which is a pattern seen across the world.
3. He makes the same stupid argument that the real death rate are much lower. Ok. Even if he’s right, it doesn’t mean the raw death rate is lower. We lost almost 60k in a month. Isn’t that kind of a warning that your argument is specious at best?
Well, I was wrong. But the doctor makes some astonishingly stupid arguments.
1. Hospital calls are down to half of their peak, which is more in line with daily averages. He argues this is a reason to open up. That’s like saying, the forest fire is put out, feel free to start fires in the forest again. Which leads me to the second...
2. He’s somehow skeptical of social distancing. That’s just... lunacy. I can understand an argument that social distancing is hurting the economy. It is. But it’s absolutely keeping this thing at bay. Infections are still slowly coming down linearly. Which is a pattern seen across the world.
3. He makes the same stupid argument that the real death rate are much lower. Ok. Even if he’s right, it doesn’t mean the raw death rate is lower. We lost almost 60k in a month. Isn’t that kind of a warning that your argument is specious at best?
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Ha!All I keep seeing is a poorly drawn single testicle *****. Is this some sort of freaky Rorschach test?
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Ok. So let me answer some questions posed here, some posed by other posters, and some not posed at all.
First, I'm not Sic.
Second, please feel free to criticize Trump at your leisure without fear of scolding from me. His response to this virus, and presidency in general, has been a complete cluster****. But like a kidney stone, he too will pass.
My post about the New Zealand tweet should not be read as a defense of Trump or his actions. I just thought the tweet was completely disingenuous. I don't come here and suggest that if only NY had the "leadership" of Wyoming they wouldn't have the mess in NY they now have. That, too, would be disingenuous.
Now, to clarify what I am saying, and what I am not saying.
I am not saying Covid-19 is like the flu, or has the same level of seriousness as the flu. I never have. I think you can have things like MERS, SARS, Ebola, etc..., that have significantly fewer deaths in this country than the flu but still be a considerably more serious medical issue.
Here is what I do believe. I don't think I owe you, any other posters here, or the public in general, any sort of duty to isolate myself and protect you. Posters here have suggested otherwise, and I called hogwash.
I don't think I have a general legal duty to do so. I don't think I have a moral duty to do so. That's my opinion. If you or others disagree, I respect that. But it doesn't change my opinion.
I think I have a duty to follow the law. So if the law says I can't open a bar or restaurant, I think I have the duty to follow that, at least until a court somewhere says it's unenforceable.
If I have a disease, and I know I have that disease, my opinion changes. In fact I think there is even legal precedence in situations where people had a STD or HIV and knew it and knowingly exposed someone to it.
But if I don't have it, or know I have it, I have no such duty.
Why is that my opinion? Because I think that carried to its logical conclusion, the idea that some sort of duty exists in all of us requires that we spend our entire lives in a bubble. We all pose some risk to other human beings. Some of the viruses we carry may be quite deadly. Others, quite tame. It might even depend upon the person that we come in contact with and their immune system.
In response, everyone always shouts "it's not the flu." Again, I understand that. That's also kind of my point. There seems to be common acceptance on this Board that the flu is not serious enough to trigger this "duty" we all apparently have to isolate ourselves. Well, where exactly does that duty begin and end? I guarantee you that people with peanut allergies, people with no functioning immune system, people particularly susceptible to the flu all have a different view of "seriousness" than some of what is posited by posters here.
Again, here is what I'm not saying. I'm not telling people they should go out and party. I'm not. I've had numerous chances to attend gatherings in the last month and a half, and declined them all. I did so not out of a duty to my friends. I just am not that fond of getting sick.
I'm not telling people they should open up their businesses. They have to make that decision, understanding all of the risks and consequences involved.
So, if Governor Walz opens the bars and restaurants in Minnesota tomorrow, you're not likely to see me there. But if you want to go, feel free. I do not claim you owe some duty to protect me. If you're looking for my opinion on what you should do, I'd suggest staying home.
Hovey, although your statement is true on its face, like many things in life it's about the degree of truth considering all of the other associated factors involved. In this country alone, we've now lost almost 60K people since early February. And, as almost all of the recent reporting is suggesting, that's probably significantly lower than what the true Covid death toll is. We've reached that number in just under 90 days. Our very worst flu seasons top out at around 60K as well but, that's over the span of 12 months. Aren't you able to acknowledge that this situation is vastly different than a normal flu virus? In that, it is likely much more lethal, it's rate of infection is much higher, along with the fact that without the significant "buy in" to the shelter-in-place orders around the country the last 30 plus days, the death tolls would've been MUCH HIGHER, as well as leaving no doubt that our health care system would have certainly become overwhelmed on a national level.
I realize you've stated you didn't vote for Trump. Fine, I don't know you so I'll take you at your word. Still, lately your comments have seemed to take on an angle or tone that seems to indicate you disagree with the amount of criticism that many on here have leveled at Trump, especially in regards to his handling of the virus. It's almost as if you and "Sic" are the same person.
Ok. So let me answer some questions posed here, some posed by other posters, and some not posed at all.
First, I'm not Sic.
Second, please feel free to criticize Trump at your leisure without fear of scolding from me. His response to this virus, and presidency in general, has been a complete cluster****. But like a kidney stone, he too will pass.
My post about the New Zealand tweet should not be read as a defense of Trump or his actions. I just thought the tweet was completely disingenuous. I don't come here and suggest that if only NY had the "leadership" of Wyoming they wouldn't have the mess in NY they now have. That, too, would be disingenuous.
Now, to clarify what I am saying, and what I am not saying.
I am not saying Covid-19 is like the flu, or has the same level of seriousness as the flu. I never have. I think you can have things like MERS, SARS, Ebola, etc..., that have significantly fewer deaths in this country than the flu but still be a considerably more serious medical issue.
Here is what I do believe. I don't think I owe you, any other posters here, or the public in general, any sort of duty to isolate myself and protect you. Posters here have suggested otherwise, and I called hogwash.
I don't think I have a general legal duty to do so. I don't think I have a moral duty to do so. That's my opinion. If you or others disagree, I respect that. But it doesn't change my opinion.
I think I have a duty to follow the law. So if the law says I can't open a bar or restaurant, I think I have the duty to follow that, at least until a court somewhere says it's unenforceable.
If I have a disease, and I know I have that disease, my opinion changes. In fact I think there is even legal precedence in situations where people had a STD or HIV and knew it and knowingly exposed someone to it.
But if I don't have it, or know I have it, I have no such duty.
Why is that my opinion? Because I think that carried to its logical conclusion, the idea that some sort of duty exists in all of us requires that we spend our entire lives in a bubble. We all pose some risk to other human beings. Some of the viruses we carry may be quite deadly. Others, quite tame. It might even depend upon the person that we come in contact with and their immune system.
In response, everyone always shouts "it's not the flu." Again, I understand that. That's also kind of my point. There seems to be common acceptance on this Board that the flu is not serious enough to trigger this "duty" we all apparently have to isolate ourselves. Well, where exactly does that duty begin and end? I guarantee you that people with peanut allergies, people with no functioning immune system, people particularly susceptible to the flu all have a different view of "seriousness" than some of what is posited by posters here.
Again, here is what I'm not saying. I'm not telling people they should go out and party. I'm not. I've had numerous chances to attend gatherings in the last month and a half, and declined them all. I did so not out of a duty to my friends. I just am not that fond of getting sick.
I'm not telling people they should open up their businesses. They have to make that decision, understanding all of the risks and consequences involved.
So, if Governor Walz opens the bars and restaurants in Minnesota tomorrow, you're not likely to see me there. But if you want to go, feel free. I do not claim you owe some duty to protect me. If you're looking for my opinion on what you should do, I'd suggest staying home.
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
May need that cake later today........
May need that cake later today........
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Jesus. This crap still.
57,000 people died in a month, Hovey.
I really don’t understand why you can’t get that through your thick skull. The states reacted to slow the virus. Without that (slow) response, hundreds of thousands would already be dead. The worst seasonal flu in recent memory killed that many over an entire year. We aren’t even close to being done. This fall is likely to be a bloodbath all over again. Similar to almost all modern pandemics.
We don’t get crazy about seasonal flu because it’s not a novel virus for which there’s no treatment, no vaccine, and no understanding of how fast it spreads or whether we even gain immunity. And, for the people in the back of the room, IT’S ALREADY KILLED 57,000 PEOPLE. We did react to swine flu, and thanks to federal leadership, had a better understanding of how to mitigate it and the fact that it wasn’t overwhelming our ICUs and hospitals.
There isn’t a single person who understands the risks and consequences of reopening a business right now. We don’t know the half of what we need to know about this virus nor are we equipped with the right tools to slow it down once we start opening. We’ve resorted as a society to wearing cut up t-shirts as PPE. You’ve somehow deluded yourself to think you understand the facts when reality is, no one does. And the lack of understanding is why we’re keeping things locked down.
Further, that you keep insisting that people die from other things, so why even look before you cross the street makes me really think you’re either trolling or are such a sociopathic ******* that you have zero empathy for those who are losing friends and family members.
Unlike you, I believe in the social contract. I believe I am responsible for the health and well-being of society. I don’t believe anarchic tribalism is a better life.
Jesus. This crap still.
57,000 people died in a month, Hovey.
I really don’t understand why you can’t get that through your thick skull. The states reacted to slow the virus. Without that (slow) response, hundreds of thousands would already be dead. The worst seasonal flu in recent memory killed that many over an entire year. We aren’t even close to being done. This fall is likely to be a bloodbath all over again. Similar to almost all modern pandemics.
We don’t get crazy about seasonal flu because it’s not a novel virus for which there’s no treatment, no vaccine, and no understanding of how fast it spreads or whether we even gain immunity. And, for the people in the back of the room, IT’S ALREADY KILLED 57,000 PEOPLE. We did react to swine flu, and thanks to federal leadership, had a better understanding of how to mitigate it and the fact that it wasn’t overwhelming our ICUs and hospitals.
There isn’t a single person who understands the risks and consequences of reopening a business right now. We don’t know the half of what we need to know about this virus nor are we equipped with the right tools to slow it down once we start opening. We’ve resorted as a society to wearing cut up t-shirts as PPE. You’ve somehow deluded yourself to think you understand the facts when reality is, no one does. And the lack of understanding is why we’re keeping things locked down.
Further, that you keep insisting that people die from other things, so why even look before you cross the street makes me really think you’re either trolling or are such a sociopathic ******* that you have zero empathy for those who are losing friends and family members.
Unlike you, I believe in the social contract. I believe I am responsible for the health and well-being of society. I don’t believe anarchic tribalism is a better life.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Vietnam War US Casualties: 58,318. 7,115 days. 8.2 deaths/day
Covid-19: 56,649 (From Google). 99 days. 572.2 deaths/day.
And counting.
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
I don't think you do understand. Lets just ignore your callous attitude towards others, that you don't seem to care if you get them sick and they die, fine.
Lets look at the economic impact on just the healthcare industry. In your life, have you ever seen the flu overwhelm the healthcare industry? Or even close to do that in your area? Has there ever been an outbreak so bad in a single location that hospitals ran out of supplies, and then were either forced to scramble to get tools, supplies, and personnel OR face the decision that they had to decide who to save or die? I can't even think of that happening in a very localized area. This did it in multiple countries all over the world, all at the same time- and a gross majority of that happened while people were forced to distance from each other. Had people not done that, and just let is spread- I can't even imagine the actual impact here in the US.
Just to keep the healthcare system working reasonably well, is that not reason enough to feel justified to separate? We have a weak system already, one that many rural hospitals and care centers have closed because they can't make money. This would have just taken the whole system totally down, as it almost has done with significant restrictions on movement and interaction.
That's not evidence that this time, we had to take it seriously? Just for simple economic reasons that the for profit health systems would have collapsed all over the place because they could not have been able to deal with this. Simple money equation.
Normal flu and even peanut allergies have never had that impact. Nor has drunk driving, mass shootings, etc. Where that border is, I don't know, but it's pretty clear this time it has been crossed.
I don't think you do understand. Lets just ignore your callous attitude towards others, that you don't seem to care if you get them sick and they die, fine.
Lets look at the economic impact on just the healthcare industry. In your life, have you ever seen the flu overwhelm the healthcare industry? Or even close to do that in your area? Has there ever been an outbreak so bad in a single location that hospitals ran out of supplies, and then were either forced to scramble to get tools, supplies, and personnel OR face the decision that they had to decide who to save or die? I can't even think of that happening in a very localized area. This did it in multiple countries all over the world, all at the same time- and a gross majority of that happened while people were forced to distance from each other. Had people not done that, and just let is spread- I can't even imagine the actual impact here in the US.
Just to keep the healthcare system working reasonably well, is that not reason enough to feel justified to separate? We have a weak system already, one that many rural hospitals and care centers have closed because they can't make money. This would have just taken the whole system totally down, as it almost has done with significant restrictions on movement and interaction.
That's not evidence that this time, we had to take it seriously? Just for simple economic reasons that the for profit health systems would have collapsed all over the place because they could not have been able to deal with this. Simple money equation.
Normal flu and even peanut allergies have never had that impact. Nor has drunk driving, mass shootings, etc. Where that border is, I don't know, but it's pretty clear this time it has been crossed.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Dullards will demand we draw a line and then hold it as hard line. Once it's crossed, we must react the same way.
Smart people in the room don't worry about a hypothetical line. They read the situation, know it's bad, and react based on the information we have on hand.
Dullards will demand we draw a line and then hold it as hard line. Once it's crossed, we must react the same way.
Smart people in the room don't worry about a hypothetical line. They read the situation, know it's bad, and react based on the information we have on hand.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Today will be interesting, as tuesdays often are, in numbers. The last four Tuesdays have shown 40-80% bumps compared to Sunday/Monday as reporting catches up.
If that trend holds, we're looking at another 1,900 today. If we indeed have that bump, it really calls into question why we continue to have weekend underreporting. Why aren't these agencies being updated daily?
Edit:
Just a quick look, sure enough:
Florida - 14 to 83
Maryland - 35 to 71
Virginia - 10 to 34
It'll be interesting as more states report. Looks like there are several other states starting to report but are likely incomplete (Georgia down 78 to 21, for example)
Today will be interesting, as tuesdays often are, in numbers. The last four Tuesdays have shown 40-80% bumps compared to Sunday/Monday as reporting catches up.
If that trend holds, we're looking at another 1,900 today. If we indeed have that bump, it really calls into question why we continue to have weekend underreporting. Why aren't these agencies being updated daily?
Edit:
Just a quick look, sure enough:
Florida - 14 to 83
Maryland - 35 to 71
Virginia - 10 to 34
It'll be interesting as more states report. Looks like there are several other states starting to report but are likely incomplete (Georgia down 78 to 21, for example)
Last edited:
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Covfefe-19: We Can Handle Slight Inconveniences. Part 8.
Yeah the school I teach at is 50/50 on just going to online classes for the fall. My department might either way since it is easier. The logistics of what will have to happen to make things as safe as possible just might not be feasible. Plus it is a college so online isnt the end of the world. It also, i the long run, will be cheaper for the school.
Works perfect for me as my classes are set up to teach either way and I hate driving to work
Yeah the school I teach at is 50/50 on just going to online classes for the fall. My department might either way since it is easier. The logistics of what will have to happen to make things as safe as possible just might not be feasible. Plus it is a college so online isnt the end of the world. It also, i the long run, will be cheaper for the school.
Works perfect for me as my classes are set up to teach either way and I hate driving to work
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