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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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I keep seeing others echoing dimwits assertion that the lockdowns and masks aren't stopping the virus...but I don't recall that being the point. I always heard "slow" not "stop" as stopping it is almost impossible for a novel virus until there is a vaccine.

Besides when it comes to viruses they don't die anyway as they aren't alive. They are still in the body. I'm reminded of this from Dr. Fauci.



So why this notion that we can "kill" the virus? I mean I learned that wasn't possible as a child.

I think it can be slowed enough that it has a very tough time replicating. For many countries- that's their status at the moment. Not gone, but so close that it's not a major problem. And not gone enough to just open things back up willy-nilly.

It's interesting to see sports in the EU- no fans, even at racing venues where viewers can be really spread out. And they are not seeing many new cases at all. On the other hand, here in the US- fans are being allowed at racing events, including in states where the virus has no indication that there's decent control over it. Funny how we continue to open back up faster than anyone else, and are wondering why people are still getting sick.
 
One thing that people often miss when it comes to ICU bed capacity is that during the pandemic, hospitals have stopped basically all elective procedures that would take up an ICU bed. Up to 50% or so of ICU beds in a tertiary care facility with multiple, organ specific ICUs are usually taken up by routine post-op care. Eliminate that, and the overall percentage looks lower but the number of people in it with severe respiratory disease is actually much higher. You do not get that view just looking at the numbers.

The hospital in Ohio I worked for had 5-6 ICUs, roughly 140 ICU beds. We can expand if needed to around 200 (with some staffing issues). During the early peak, we were near 100% capacity, with postponing all things that could be postponed. Basically all beds available were Covid beds. But if you looked at the raw numbers, we would look OK, even though it was pretty ****ing scary. If you need an ICU bed and do not have it, your mortality is like 99%.

Yeah but what would you know ;-)
 
Cause people like you and FTLT keep responding to him. He's still getting the reaction he craves, still whipping the skippy to it.

If everyone puts him on 'ignore' like I finally did, you won't even see when he posts his ****. And the only one he'll have to debate here is his old buddy whalers. Who I also put on ignore.

It's a hockey message board. How many people are on here, maybe a few thousand? His message has no impact, even if there were ten times that many here. If a tree falls in the forest with no one around , does it make a sound?

I see your point about the Dems at the national level, and you're right. But this ain't that. Fighting back with facts doesn't quiet the troll. Neither does shaming, or derision. The only thing that works is ignoring them. They want the pushback, good or bad. That's what gets them off. To have all of you jumping at his every post. You saw him on here just last week, begging for some sort of response, when everyone as ignoring him and not playing along. Keep him begging. He'll go off to find some new playmates.

I would give rep for this post but not an option. I have both of them on ignore. Been watching people wrestle with should someone respond thing. Having had to deal with anti-vaxxers when I was in practice my reader's digest response is- Eyes on the prize. And because I am better at unabridged and feeling philisophical- there are some good points about responding-

People who believe illogical things that are blatantly illogical rarely respond well to facts. Use the research the CDC did when trying to figure out what to do with anti-vaxxers. (tried to find the link but ran out of time). Jist- The more facts they are presented with the more they clung to their beliefs. They might even acknowledge the facts were true but still found ways to excuse/believe what they did (this was really fascinating to listen to the reasoning). It was more effective to go with the person's belief and ask them how they were going to problem solve thru what the consequences might be with their choice. (might not work here as these people are unable to admit to the existence of threat but...)

If you are concerned others might believe the things they are posting then consider posting links which provide correct information without engaging the person posting them- ex- post- deaths are going down response- link showing actual deaths with a label stating the current facts show deaths are increasing. This would provide information for anyone not familiar with the person's inability to grasp facts without engaging. Calling them stupid- no matter how true- is not going to do anything except incite further silliness on their part. You don't need to find multiple different links, just post the same ones over and over. We teach this to parents dealing with recalcitrant toddlers- be a tape recorder. Say the same thing. You are not posting to convince the person trying to perpetuate misinformation. You are posting in case anyone comes upon post and needs accurate info.

Again, eyes on the prize. This is very similar to a toddler pitching a fit- they look to see if anyone is listening and paying attention to the crocodile tears. If no one is they stop until they think someone is paying attention again or if they are feeling particularly energetic they will up the volume (number of silly or outrageous posts). Just like a toddler it helps to realize they are hearing (seeing) your words but they just don't like them, don't care, or are enjoying pi55ing you off. No point in arguing. Arguing, being logical, factual or anything else will not change the toddlers want for ice cream at 6AM. They will not change a person who can believe things that are so patently illogical and they most certainly will encourage someone who is enjoying getting people in a froth.

Eyes on the prize- present facts, get out. At some point you have to realize that short of the virus rendering them incapacitated they are not going to change. You cannot save people from themselves. And, even tho it is unfair, we can't stop people from doing things that harm others 100% of the time. We can only work to decrease the damage.

That said it is helpful to understand what those who are not exposed to the facts are seeing. I attempt to scroll by those who do get the facts but are have sociopathic tendencies to think only of themselves.
 
Some of that on a county map is misleading, though. I go back to an old Freep article from April where "Region 6" in Michigan had 89 Adult ICU beds available in counties ranging from Mason (Ludington) to Ottawa (Holland) through Muskegon and Kent (GR). Odds are those ICU beds are primarily in Kent and Muskegon where people and hospitals are and 0-5 total available in Lake or Oceana county where they have a tiny medical center and would transfer people to a bigger hospital anyway.

Oh absolutely, and I agree, because for Region 8 (UP), I think they said there were like 80 ICU beds in the whole UP with 65 of 'em between Marquette, Iron Mountain, and Escanaba. If you were anywhere else you were SOL.

So I get where they're at 70% capacity state wide and dropping. The capacity and availability of hospitals and ICU beds in Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa Bay are way different than those in Tallahassee, Pensacola, and Gainsville. But those three are where there are limited resources and are being overwhelmed.

It's just frustrating when someone parrots a bunk statewide number without looking into just why...

(I'll admit I've done it before as well.)
 
This logic is on full display in conservative twitter right now. Have a gander at the Soledad Obrien kerfuffle and see what I mean. Kepler's dream girl made herself look especially stupid when she decided to weigh in.

Oh no. I need to go see this.
 
I think it can be slowed enough that it has a very tough time replicating. For many countries- that's their status at the moment. Not gone, but so close that it's not a major problem. And not gone enough to just open things back up willy-nilly.

It's interesting to see sports in the EU- no fans, even at racing venues where viewers can be really spread out. And they are not seeing many new cases at all. On the other hand, here in the US- fans are being allowed at racing events, including in states where the virus has no indication that there's decent control over it. Funny how we continue to open back up faster than anyone else, and are wondering why people are still getting sick.

I understand that but what I mean is that it hasn't actually stopped anywhere yet and won't be "stopped" until we have a vaccine. And even then it won't go away forever. This is here to stay and it seems like a lot of the derps wanting to open because it's overblown don't understand that.
 
I understand that but what I mean is that it hasn't actually stopped anywhere yet and won't be "stopped" until we have a vaccine. And even then it won't go away forever. This is here to stay and it seems like a lot of the derps wanting to open because it's overblown don't understand that.

Or maybe they can't deal with their whole life being upside down. This is like telling someone they can't drink for the rest of their life- their automatic response denial, fear, anger and all the other stuff. If you ask them to be in the moment they do a bit better. Unfortunately trying to get them to figure out the denial will kill them is really difficult (just like the guy who is lemon yellow with liver failure and wants to tell you they can still imbibe.

One of my acquaintances has been very proud to say they have made adjustments but have not 'stopped living'. They went on vacation 2 weeks ago to a place that is a popular place in my state- wore a mask most of the time. They are currently hospitalized. They had 16 contacts- all have tested positive. It is like a case study. People can't seem to figure out they don't get to negotiate what they will do and they don't get brownie points because they tried.
 
Since les asked for sources-
Florida Dept of Health's Covid page- https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...8ddedb9b25e429
And the alternate page we found out about- but uses the same source of data- https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...1c643c195314e/

The opening page of the FDH page has the death's per day, and if it's not obvious that the graph is going up, well, I'm not sure what to say. These are not media sites, they are data put together from the FDH. You can choose to believe it or not, but we do understand who is gathering that data in Florida.
 
I understand that but what I mean is that it hasn't actually stopped anywhere yet and won't be "stopped" until we have a vaccine. And even then it won't go away forever. This is here to stay and it seems like a lot of the derps wanting to open because it's overblown don't understand that.

It hasn't been stopped anywhere yet because people who have it(knowingly or unknowingly) aren't doing the right things. wearing masks, not travelling, staying home when sick, self-quarantining. My tourist town is like this thing isn't even happening. So far, cases have been extremely low, lower than I thought they'd be. But I still assume it's only a matter of time til it begins spreading here, just as it has been in other states that had low spread until recently. It only takes one person with the virus to set it off in an area that previously had none.
 
One of my acquaintances has been very proud to say they have made adjustments but have not 'stopped living'. They went on vacation 2 weeks ago to a place that is a popular place in my state- wore a mask most of the time. They are currently hospitalized. They had 16 contacts- all have tested positive. It is like a case study. People can't seem to figure out they don't get to negotiate what they will do and they don't get brownie points because they tried.

This is what I really don't understand. People don't 'have' to go on vacations somewhere, they don't 'have' to travel, they don't 'have' to hang out in the bar a couple times a week, they don't 'have' to go to Disneyland. They 'want' to. And far be it for a pandemic to stop anyone from doing what they 'want' to do.

No one wants to change their behavior even a little bit in an attempt to stop this thing. "But we've always gone away on vacation".

People are fucking selfish.
 
This logic is on full display in conservative twitter right now. Have a gander at the Soledad Obrien kerfuffle and see what I mean. Kepler's dream girl made herself look especially stupid when she decided to weigh in.

Hey now, cut Me Again Kelly a bit of slack. It's not entirely her fault that her entire major network career will consist of a softball interview with a moonbat conspiracy nut, and that no one at Fox will give her the time of day anymore. ;-)
 
Hey now, cut Me Again Kelly a bit of slack. It's not entirely her fault that her entire major network career will consist of a softball interview with a moonbat conspiracy nut, and that no one at Fox will give her the time of day anymore. ;-)

Ha ha ha OMG that's perfect.
 
This is what I really don't understand. People don't 'have' to go on vacations somewhere, they don't 'have' to travel, they don't 'have' to hang out in the bar a couple times a week, they don't 'have' to go to Disneyland. They 'want' to. And far be it for a pandemic to stop anyone from doing what they 'want' to do.

No one wants to change their behavior even a little bit in an attempt to stop this thing. "But we've always gone away on vacation".

People are ****ing selfish.

This thread is like a little puddle of sanity sometimes. I feel the same way. We have gone one place that is in a rural area and never left our 'container', not once the whole time we were there- even brought our trash home. Both because we could pose risk and because they were ignorant enough of risk they were doing stuff that wasn't safe even though folks fromt he outside thought it was OK to come play.

In the last 2 days we have-

the guy in my original post who just graduated from the ICU and his 16 contacts.

A family member (with multiple medical risk factors) who thinks because they come from an area of low community penetration and they mostly follow the rules it is OK to go out to eat, visit family in yet another locale and take selfies with them crammed together, and go to multiple places that are touristy because- well, because. They returned home last night- hopefully without a guest along for the ride.

Posts on the beach from friends who go to the same place on the coast every year. They have elderly people with them who have medical issues and would be a skip from leaping right into the grave. The pics are of them at the packed beach, no protections, with the comment that it was crowded but they 'did the best they could'. One of these people is a medical professional who works in a hospital. Are you fffffffffffff1ng kidding me?? It wasn't even a year ago they asked me to talk sense into one of their olds because they were at risk and wouldn't be careful. Now they are all hanging out together as a family- coming from 4 or 5 different locales/States to stay crammed into one house, going to dinner, etc. This is not going to end well. They will be distraught and completely baffled when it goes bad. They will be shocked, just shocked when it happens.

Yesterday I walked by 2 different parties within a couple of hundred metres of each other set up for buffets, lots of people at tables crowded in because?

It is all magic.
 
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