Cops: No Snarky Nor Positive Title

[alfablue]

It's closer to 4.5:1 with respect to blacks, about 1.6 for all minorities and I know what I was watching so I don't need lessons from you. I just freaking wrote it's highly likely the pairs of cops tv crews were assigned to were on their best behavior so it may not be a true representation of typcial interactions. But you're wrong about what happens typically on LivePD at least based upon the number of times I watched. If they do pull the show it won't bother me.

I'm just telling you what the census reports. Not trying to teach any lesson, just making observations. If you want to separate the ones that are not binning themselves into Hispanic, that's fine. But even at 4.5:1 the race of black shooting and incarceration is considerably higher. And white parents do not need to have the "cop talk" to their kids. So lets not pretend that they are anywhere the same.

I have not watched any live cop shows, I'm just betting that they are not balanced WRT race in the community, especially overall in the US. And if they are focusing on primarily minority areas, that's pretty bad.

 

[SJHovey]

I always thought they were propaganda to pound the message in that the cops are omnipresent. In the original movie Fahrenheit 451 there's a scene where they're watching a vid of firemen catch a group of teens and cutting their long hair with the voiceover "isn't law enforcement fun?" That's what Cops is.

I like the class theory but the problem is only lower class whites watched the show. They were getting off on the authoritarianism of it -- like their religion.

As usual you guys have way over-thought this. Live PD is nosy voyeurism, nothing more, nothing less. Live PD is popular for the same reason that people slow down on the interstate when there is an accident in the opposite lanes of traffic that doesn't interfere with your traffic at all, or isn't necessary for safety reasons. It's the same reason that people listen to scanners.

25 years ago I was the head of our local red cross chapter, and we selected fire detectors as our project one summer. We would go out to small towns in Minnesota, walk door to door, and offer to check their fire detector, and if they didn't have one, install one free of charge.

There is no question that 40% of the homes I went into had a police scanner operating. One Saturday the Sheriff's department was searching for a guy on an arrest warrant, and as I went from home to home it was like listening to a soap opera as the story progressed.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that my own fascination with the way these people lived, the insides of their homes, what they were eating, their hoarding activities, their addiction to the police scanner, was every bit as nosy and voyeuristic as those I visited.

Hey, we're all Gladys Kravitz.

 

[aparch]

Paramount has canceled Cops permanently after pulling it off the air.

Now there's a movement to try to cancel Live PD. This week it was learned that an unarmed black man died in custody during a taping of the show. It was ruled a homicide, but no action has been taken as of yet, except that the officers resigned upon the news getting out. Live PD said they destroyed the evidence.

Hooboy. I was kinda wondering why the hosts were suspiciously silent since the George Floyd murder.

 

[SJHovey]

I have not watched any live cop shows, I'm just betting that they are not balanced WRT race in the community, especially overall in the US. And if they are focusing on primarily minority areas, that's pretty bad.

I think Live PD has done a pretty decent job of varying the areas they film.

For instance, they've followed departments in Montana, Indiana and Florida where the population is almost all white, and other departments like those I mentioned earlier, which have a much higher minority population.

I would say if anything they focus more on the poorer areas rather than selecting by race. I doubt you'll see the Grosse Pointe police department followed by Live PD anytime soon.

 

[aparch]

I don't get why that is on TV. And I bet if one studied the show, you would see the blatant racism in the police system.

Like you and Slap Shot, LivePD seemed to be fair across the board.

I do have the same thought that F2B&G had in that LivePD was more Classist and not Racist.

But honestly, if Cleetus is running stop signs with a digital scale coated in crack on his center console with empty beer cans rolling around, he kinda deserves to get pulled over and arrested. No matter his income.

 

[Kepler]

25 years ago I was the head of our local red cross chapter, and we selected fire detectors as our project one summer. We would go out to small towns in Minnesota, walk door to door, and offer to check their fire detector, and if they didn't have one, install one free of charge.

There is no question that 40% of the homes I went into had a police scanner operating. One Saturday the Sheriff's department was searching for a guy on an arrest warrant, and as I went from home to home it was like listening to a soap opera as the story progressed.

Two things.

First, as a story writer I would encourage you if you have any interest to give it a shot. In two short paragraphs you just wrote the beginning of an excellent short story. You gave us a location we can see, concrete objects to focus on, a narrator's voice, a fascinating premise, movement in space and time, and a hint of drama. You have what we call in the biz a natural talent, boy. And this is not the first time I have noticed it.

As an editor I would literally make just one cut and one change: excise "There is no question that." it improves the rhythm of the sentence and makes it less didactic and more inviting. And change "it was like" to "I was." You've put yourself into the story and pulled in the reader with you. We are now walking through the houses together. Immediate and intimate.

Second, in 57 years I have never known a single person who had a police scanner. This is something very regional/cultural.

 

[SJHovey]

Second, in 57 years I have never known a single person who had a police scanner. This is something very regional/cultural.

I'm not even sure they make police scanners anymore. When the Cubs won the World Series a buddy called me and told me to download an app on my phone that provided access to various police scanners around the country. He recommended the Chicago PD. I'll admit, I took his advice and tuned in for about a half hour, and it was kind of funny/interesting. Don't think I've turned it on since, but that experience and my days with the Red Cross clued me in that it might not be that hard to get addicted.

As for story writing, I am undoubtedly the least creative and least imaginative person with whom you've ever had the displeasure to communicate. I couldn't tell a story if Hemingway wrote it for me. I almost died when I realized I was expected to say something clever at our oldest daughter's wedding reception, and I have two more to go.

I can recite with clarity events that have happened to me. Unfortunately, very few of those events have been particularly interesting.

 

[mookie1995]

Yup https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...e/US/PST045219

Although Hispanic is not a race according to the census- but it is separated later.

hmmmmm. well 5-to-1 works just as well for you then. cause there ain't no way whites associate with hispanics, nor do hispanics associate with whites. the us did just after all vote in a dude to wall up the way in for hispanics

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Minneapolis police chief breaking off contract negotiations with police union.

good.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesot...e-chief-ends-contract-negotiations-with-union

 

[Kepler]

As for story writing, I am undoubtedly the least creative and least imaginative person with whom you've ever had the displeasure to communicate. I couldn't tell a story if Hemingway wrote it for me. I almost died when I realized I was expected to say something clever at our oldest daughter's wedding reception, and I have two more to go.

I can recite with clarity events that have happened to me. Unfortunately, very few of those events have been particularly interesting.

I am less creative than you, trust me. A story writer need not be creative -- not everyone is Lovecraft. Sometimes simple journalism is compelling. Jean Shepherd, one of my favorite writers, was mostly a "rememberer." He added tweaks and he was a compulsive liar (no, seriously, like multiple secret families) which helped a little but primarily he would write out a simple memory and then look at it sideways.

Anyway, you have been Inceptioned.

 

[SJHovey]

Minneapolis police chief breaking off contract negotiations with police union.

good.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesot...e-chief-ends-contract-negotiations-with-union

I'm not sure it is that "good" of an outcome for anyone looking for reform.

I believe that in Minnesota, police officers are not allowed to "strike" because they are considered essential workers. But that doesn't mean a City can just hold out in their negotiations because the cops have lost their greatest negotiation weapon. What Minnesota gives to essential workers instead of the strike tool is called "interest arbitration." Basically, the cops will force the City to proceed to arbitration on those issues that are in dispute, then an arbitrator will decide what the terms of the contract will be.

 

[Kepler]

I'm not sure it is that "good" of an outcome for anyone looking for reform.

I believe that in Minnesota, police officers are not allowed to "strike" because they are considered essential workers. But that doesn't mean a City can just hold out in their negotiations because the cops have lost their greatest negotiation weapon. What Minnesota gives to essential workers instead of the strike tool is called "interest arbitration." Basically, the cops will force the City to proceed to arbitration on those issues that are in dispute, then an arbitrator will decide what the terms of the contract will be.

What if this is a precursor to MPS dissolving the police? The cops can't force MPS to continue them. They don't have a gun to their head, so to speak.

What is the downside to MPS letting the contract end, abolishing the police as is, then letting another contract for a completely new LEO entity and telling individual officers, "you can apply if you want"?

The cops do not hold the city hostage, they are a service provider, like any other public utility. They can be discontinued in toto for any reason MPS cares to provide or none at all.

 

[Handyman]

As usual you guys have way over-thought this. Live PD is nosy voyeurism, nothing more, nothing less. Live PD is popular for the same reason that people slow down on the interstate when there is an accident in the opposite lanes of traffic that doesn't interfere with your traffic at all, or isn't necessary for safety reasons. It's the same reason that people listen to scanners.

25 years ago I was the head of our local red cross chapter, and we selected fire detectors as our project one summer. We would go out to small towns in Minnesota, walk door to door, and offer to check their fire detector, and if they didn't have one, install one free of charge.

There is no question that 40% of the homes I went into had a police scanner operating. One Saturday the Sheriff's department was searching for a guy on an arrest warrant, and as I went from home to home it was like listening to a soap opera as the story progressed.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that my own fascination with the way these people lived, the insides of their homes, what they were eating, their hoarding activities, their addiction to the police scanner, was every bit as nosy and voyeuristic as those I visited.

Hey, we're all Gladys Kravitz.

Hey dont lump all us in with Kepler. Sometimes he sounds like the stoner guy in college who sees extra meaning in everything.

I do wear it as a badge of honor though that I have never watched Cops or Live PD.

 

[Kepler]

Hey dont lump all us in with Kepler. Sometimes he sounds like the stoner guy in college who sees extra meaning in everything.

There, there. New ideas can be threatening.

 

[Handyman]

I'm not even sure they make police scanners anymore. When the Cubs won the World Series a buddy called me and told me to download an app on my phone that provided access to various police scanners around the country. He recommended the Chicago PD. I'll admit, I took his advice and tuned in for about a half hour, and it was kind of funny/interesting. Don't think I've turned it on since, but that experience and my days with the Red Cross clued me in that it might not be that hard to get addicted.

As for story writing, I am undoubtedly the least creative and least imaginative person with whom you've ever had the displeasure to communicate. I couldn't tell a story if Hemingway wrote it for me. I almost died when I realized I was expected to say something clever at our oldest daughter's wedding reception, and I have two more to go.

I can recite with clarity events that have happened to me. Unfortunately, very few of those events have been particularly interesting.

I know people who listen tot he scanner during and after Packer games...they hear some outrageous stuff.

Back to MPS...Bob Kroll is gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

I would assume this is the precurser. No union is going to let you fire everyone and then make them re-apply for their jobs. Hell the City is probably hoping half of them quit in protest. Maybe they can join that force down in Florida...

 

[SJHovey]

What if this is a precursor to MPS dissolving the police? The cops can't force MPS to continue them. They don't have a gun to their head, so to speak.

What is the downside to MPS letting the contract end, abolishing the police as is, then letting another contract for a completely new LEO entity and telling individual officers, "you can apply if you want"?

The cops do not hold the city hostage, they are a service provider, like any other public utility. They can be discontinued in toto for any reason MPS cares to provide or none at all.

I think a couple of things are blocking the City right now in terms of dissolving the police.

First there is the matter of the contract. It might depend upon how it is written, but I'm pretty sure that unless the police department is dissolved first, the contract will have to be submitted to interest arbitration unless an agreement can be reached. In other words, I don't think the City can use the contract to dissolve the MPD.

Second, as I noted back with the "defund the police" thing came up a few days ago, Minneapolis is a Charter city, which means they've adopted a Charter that serves as its own little Constitution. It can be amended, but only by vote of the citizens or by unanimous vote of the City Council and approval by the Mayor.

Right now, that Charter says the City "must" have a police force, the police force "must" have at least a certain number of officers (dictated by population), and the City Council "must" adequately fund that force.

So, in summary, yeah the City can defund, dissolve or change the police force, but there is a process that has to be followed that goes way beyond 9 of 13 council members voicing support for it, or stalling in contract negotiations.

 

[Handyman]

There, there. New ideas can be threatening.

That isnt a new idea...that is just being pretentious

Cops is no different than the Iron Chef used to be. It is a stupid show of little to no value, there is o greater meaning behind it...except that large quantities of people watch stupid stuff

 

[Kepler]

I think a couple of things are blocking the City right now in terms of dissolving the police.

First there is the matter of the contract. It might depend upon how it is written, but I'm pretty sure that unless the police department is dissolved first, the contract will have to be submitted to interest arbitration unless an agreement can be reached. In other words, I don't think the City can use the contract to dissolve the MPD.

Second, as I noted back with the "defund the police" thing came up a few days ago, Minneapolis is a Charter city, which means they've adopted a Charter that serves as its own little Constitution. It can be amended, but only by vote of the citizens or by unanimous vote of the City Council and approval by the Mayor.

Right now, that Charter says the City "must" have a police force, the police force "must" have at least a certain number of officers (dictated by population), and the City Council "must" adequately fund that force.

So, in summary, yeah the City can defund, dissolve or change the police force, but there is a process that has to be followed that goes way beyond 9 of 13 council members voicing support for it, or stalling in contract negotiations.

Thank you. This is all excellent information.

 

[Kepler]

That isnt a new idea...that is just being pretentious

Cops is no different than the Iron Chef used to be. It is a stupid show of little to no value, there is o greater meaning behind it...except that large quantities of people watch stupid stuff

Everything below one's ability to comprehend is stupid. Everything above is pretentious.

 

[Handyman]

I know people who listen tot he scanner during and after Packer games...they hear some outrageous stuff.

Back to MPS...Bob Kroll is gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

I would assume this is the precurser. No union is going to let you fire everyone and then make them re-apply for their jobs. Hell the City is probably hoping half of them quit in protest. Maybe they can join that force down in Florida...

Yes it must have a police force...it doesnt say it has to be this police force. As long as they hire other officers to replace the MPS they arent violating the charter by dissolving the MPS. That is why that point isnt brought up more.

That is why this is going to be a slow moving process. They need something in place with a minimal number of officers as soon as they dissolve the current brand.