Cops: No Snarky Nor Positive Title

[Handyman]

What rules did they break on a no-knock warrant?

For the record this is a terrible look and no-knock warrants IMHO are bull**** and should be disallowed.

You dont announce as you enter you have to make it clear you are coming in before. Now admittedly I won't watch the video (I dont watch snuff films) but everyone I know who has has said it is not clear they did that. Not to mention the kid was asleep when they broke in so even if they did announce he never heard it. Plus how long is the entire interaction?

To be honest though I don't even care about that (I know you were in the midst of a convo about it) my concern is why did any of this happen? Why is an innocent person dead and why, even now, has MPD not learned their lesson? They literally had the entire world fucking protesting them and their actions and outcomes and they do this? They are under massive scrutiny and they still have itchy trigger fingers.

Oh and then there is this: https://twitter.com/kare11/status/1489623634113093636

BREAKING: St. Paul police did not request a 'no-knock' warrant in MPD raid that led to Amir Locke's death and @MinneapolisPD insisted warrant be changed to 'no-knock,' sources tell KARE 11's @ajinvestigates

 

[jerphisch]

What rules did they break on a no-knock warrant?

For the record this is a terrible look and no-knock warrants IMHO are bull**** and should be disallowed.

Announce BEFORE entering. As of Aug 2020 "Officers will now be required to announce their presence and purpose before entering, except in certain circumstances like hostage situations..."

 

[Slap Shot]

Announce BEFORE entering. As of Aug 2020 "Officers will now be required to announce their presence and purpose before entering, except in certain circumstances like hostage situations..."

Hmm.

Subd. 2.Definition.

For the purposes of this section, "no-knock search warrant" means a search warrant authorizing peace officers to enter certain premises without first knocking and announcing the officer's presence or purpose prior to entering the premises. No-knock search warrants may also be referred to as dynamic entry warrants.

Again to me they should never be used and this is an effed up situation.

 

[jerphisch]

Hmm.

Local not state

 

[Slap Shot]

Local not state

From your link:

High-risk warrants (P&P 9-302and P&P 9-303) may involve immediate entry or “unannounced entry.” Unannounced entry search warrants authorize officers to enter the specified premises without first knocking and announcing their presence or purpose prior to entering. The judge issuing the warrant indicates whether the warrant permits that type of entry, based on the case details.

 

[state of hockey]

"Dynamic entry" warrants lol.

 

[jerphisch]

From your link:

b. During unannounced entry search warrants, MPD officers shall announce themselves as “Police” and announce their purpose as “Search Warrant” prior to crossing the threshold of the door into the residence or building

 

[LynahFan]

So delicious to see the "I can do anything with my gun!" crowd go toe-to-toe with the "Police never do anything wrong!" crowd.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

You want to know the fastest way to get rid of no-knock warrants? If enough cops get killed trying to serve them. Other than that, this will continue to happen. If enough of them get shot in the course of kicking in a few doors, regardless of whether or not the person on the other side of the door is a criminal, the cops will decide no-knock warrants are simply a little too dangerous part of their oh-so-dangerous jobs.

Look at the way they handled the Las Vegas mass shooter. He had already killed 60 people, shot a couple hundred more, and was dead by his own hand for 30 minutes by the time the cops made their way into his hotel room. If that wasn't a door that needed to be immediately breached then please explain to me the logic in breaking into Amir Locke's door like they did. And please don't tell me about the potential danger they may have faced in Las Vegas. That's their fucking job.

 

[Slap Shot]

b. During unannounced entry search warrants, MPD officers shall announce themselves as “Police” and announce their purpose as “Search Warrant” prior to crossing the threshold of the door into the residence or building

Watch the video - you can hear them plain as day as they're starting their way in. You're not going to make an argument against them because they timed their announcement off by half a second.

FTR I am not in the defend cops at all costs lot. It's been a long time but I've argued with Brent/Rube here several times over on matters of the police and you likely recall his stance on pretty much everything cop related.

I think no-knock warrants are bullshit. I am sure better planning could have led to a non-violent and non-lethal confrontation in this matter. They should have waited a second more to make their entry but you can hear them say they are cops several times very clearly and he still pointed a gun at them. What we need is sane conversation about reform not shrieking.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I'm sorry but fuck that. The guy was sleeping and had six seconds to wake up and discern that they were cops and not armed robbers.

Fuck that. I'd have fired too.

 

[Swansong]

Not to mention, having multiple people screaming at the same time.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

No knock warrants are just an invitation for killings. We like killings in America. High Risk warrants, same thing.

 

[SJHovey]

I'm sorry but fuck that. The guy was sleeping and had six seconds to wake up and discern that they were cops and not armed robbers.

Fuck that. I'd have fired too.

Isn't that kind of the point of a no knock warrant, to catch the person by surprise and before they can start mentally processing things and react?

 

[burd]

Isn't that kind of the point of a no knock warrant, to catch the person by surprise and before they can start mentally processing things and react?

It is, but aren't posters just saying that if the State wants to enjoy the benefit of surprise, it should be prepared to accept the detriment (defensive behavior) as well?

Nancy Reagan understood how toilets can be a weapon in war,

 

[Slap Shot]

Isn't that kind of the point of a no knock warrant, to catch the person by surprise and before they can start mentally processing things and react?

The STPD did not request a no-knock for this arrest, but MPD went and did it anyway. No knocks are typically if there's fear the target would destroy evidence (such as drugs) among other reasons. From what I've read this individual didn't meet the needs but a judge signed off on it anyway.

 

[SJHovey]

It is, but aren't posters just saying that if the State wants to enjoy the benefit of surprise, it should be prepared to accept the detriment (defensive behavior) as well?

I get that, but I think that arguing that Locke had no time to react seems sort of silly to me. Of course he had no time to react, that's the point.

I have no idea whether a no-knock warrant was appropriate or not. I haven't seen the warrant posted anywhere and know little about why the cops were even there or what they expected to find. I assume no knock warrants are used in cases where evidence might be destroyed, but I also assume they might be used in other instances as well. They are obviously dangerous situations, for everyone involved, since neither party on either side of the door really knows what is waiting for them.

 

[Handyman]

No knock warrants are there yes for the element of surprise. The problem is they also increase the likelihood mistakes will be made and put cops at a much higher risk. When cops are at a higher risk their fingers become ridiculously twitchy.

BTW it sounds like the judge who signed the no knock warrant was the judge from the Chauvin trial. Also it sounds like MPD refused to serve the warrant for Saint Paul unless Saint Paul agreed to a no knock warrant.

No Knock Warrants serve no purpose other than to let cops act like they are in an action film or cop procedural show where they get in a shootout every other week. They don't increase safety, or likelihood of arrest and they certainly don't protect evidence any more than a traditional one would IMHO.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

No Knock Warrants serve no purpose other than to let cops act like they are in an action film or cop procedural show where they get in a shootout every other week. They don't increase safety, or likelihood of arrest and they certainly don't protect evidence any more than a traditional one would IMHO.

The facts you note about arrests and safety (and they are facts) are proof positive that the police unions don't really care about making cops better at their jobs or even making the job safer. We already know they don't give a fuck about making things safer for citizens, be they criminals or innocents.

If the FOP (and other cop unions) really cared about making things safer for cops they would be first in line to support ACTUAL gun control reforms and eliminating no-knock warrants. As well too they would be all about better education and far more progressive drug abuse laws.

But the real truth is law enforcement has been overrun with meatheads who DO believe they are in action movies, and white supremacists who for a long time just assumed they'd get away with murdering lots of black and brown people. If a no-knock warrant increases the likelihood of them being able to discharge a firearm, then their thinking is we need MORE no-knock warrants, not fewer.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

They are obviously dangerous situations, for everyone involved, since neither party on either side of the door really knows what is waiting for them.

Funny, you'd think the average Black man would know by now what awaits him when he is on the business end of an encounter with a cop. Especially if he chooses to exercise his 2nd amendment rights.