Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

And how is that happening here? It literally isnt.

The people they are trying to bring the pain to live nowhere near any of those places. All they are doing is making life more painful for the people who live there with them.

This isnt Rage Against the Machine...this isnt Public Enemy...this a poser cover band. If you want to fight the power go for it...but do it where the power resides.

Part of the problem is though that Minneapolis acted correctly (and much faster than expected) so now instead of lashing out TPTB they have no singular force to go after.

Perhaps you should go down to Lake and class-splain to the protesters their poor object choice.

I'm all for it if they use rocket launchers on the banking district, but that's not how this works. If your thesis is riots are imprecise, well, yeah. People aren't going to stop having them under circumstances in which no legal remedy is possible. Robert K. Merton was on to that by 1955.

We're watching the physics of jamming people into a ghetto and then crushing them. Eventually they do something. It's not to be celebrated or vilified, it just is the inevitable output unless we change the inputs.

A drowning man lashes out. That's what "I can't breath!" means. It's not going to wind up a graduate seminar in a quiet room, it's going to be awful.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

In that sense I can understand, I was speaking more about folks like you or dx.

Oh I dont have any illusions that they trust me or want my help. (I worked in bad parts of town for too long not to know the score) I also dont pretend to "get what they are going through" because for as bad as I had it sometimes it is not even in the same universe of what they deal with. Hell even the hatred I get for being a Jew doesnt give me any insight into what they have to deal with.

I want them to win...I want change of the greatest magnitude. There is zero excuse for the amount of suffering that goes on because the system sucks. I do my best to help how I can.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

Oh I dont have any illusions that they trust me or want my help. (I worked in bad parts of town for too long not to know the score) I also dont pretend to "get what they are going through" because for as bad as I had it sometimes it is not even in the same universe of what they deal with.
..
I want them to win...I want change of the greatest magnitude. There is zero excuse for the amount of suffering that goes on because the system sucks. I do my best to help how I can.

This is exactly how I come down on it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

Perhaps you should go down to Lake and class-splain to the protesters their poor object choice.

I'm all for it if they use rocket launchers on the banking district, but that's not how this works. If your thesis is riots are imprecise, well, yeah. People aren't going to stop having them under circumstances in which no legal remedy is possible. Robert K. Merton was on to that by 1955.

We're watching the physics of jamming people into a ghetto and then crushing them. Eventually they do something. It's not to be celebrated or demonized, it just is the inevitable output unless we change the inputs.

I dont have to explain...BLM has been doing it almost since this started.

I used to live 6 blocks from there (roughly) and my buddy taught at a school that had a campus in that strip mall. This isnt South Central LA its run down but it is hardly a ghetto. There are much worse areas. (hence the gentrifying)

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

Oh I dont have any illusions that they trust me or want my help. (I worked in bad parts of town for too long not to know the score) I also dont pretend to "get what they are going through" because for as bad as I had it sometimes it is not even in the same universe of what they deal with. Hell even the hatred I get for being a Jew doesnt give me any insight into what they have to deal with.

I want them to win...I want change of the greatest magnitude. There is zero excuse for the amount of suffering that goes on because the system sucks. I do my best to help how I can.

And that's the right response, and it's what we can do. That and when politicians ask us to increase our taxes to pay for day care and mass transit and single payer, say yes.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

And that's the right response, and it's what we can do. That and when politicians ask us to increase our taxes to pay for day care and mass transit and single payer, say yes.

Uhh.... Hello?

We have been. Somehow we're failing the black community. That's not ok either.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

I dont have to explain...BLM has been doing it almost since this started.

I used to live 6 blocks from there (roughly) and my buddy taught at a school that had a campus in that strip mall. This isnt South Central LA its run down but it is hardly a ghetto. There are much worse areas. (hence the gentrifying)

If the cops can murder you it doesn't matter if you have a nice lawn, you're still in a ghetto.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Oh I dont have any illusions that they trust me or want my help. (I worked in bad parts of town for too long not to know the score) I also dont pretend to "get what they are going through" because for as bad as I had it sometimes it is not even in the same universe of what they deal with. Hell even the hatred I get for being a Jew doesnt give me any insight into what they have to deal with.

I want them to win...I want change of the greatest magnitude. There is zero excuse for the amount of suffering that goes on because the system sucks. I do my best to help how I can.

I think the question that’s being raised is that are we, as in white folks like you and me, really doing the best we can to help or are we just paying lip service?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

Uhh.... Hello?

Yes. I'm saying we're not on opposite sides. Riots are terrible but without stuff like this nothing changes. That doesn't make them "right," but it makes them part of what happens, like hacking off a gangrenous leg.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

Yes. I'm saying we're not on opposite sides. Riots are terrible but without stuff like this nothing changes. That doesn't make them "right," but it makes them part of what happens, like hacking off a gangrenous leg.

But just because they are inevitable doesnt mean we have to condone it. We understand sooner or later things were going to blow up but that doesnt excuse lawless behavior.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Squad car overtaken by crowd outside of Target. Approval for gas, now deployed in Verizon store. Looters exiting Cub Foods liquor, T-Mobile, Footlocker. Midway Tobacco Outlet owners armed and defending store front. Police urging protecting life #1 priority. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/minneapolisriots?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#minneapolisriots</a> <a href="https://t.co/wGV9FN4xNx">pic.twitter.com/wGV9FN4xNx</a></p>— Hunter Allen (@hunter_allen) <a href="https://twitter.com/hunter_allen/status/1266109090851217408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

I think the question that’s being raised is that are we, as in white folks like you and me, really doing the best we can to help or are we just paying lip service?

It's probably both. My wife and I are stressed with COVID, money, jobs, everything that a lot of people are. We have different stressors in life and we take time to do what we can. Certainly my wife and I do. Sometiems that means giving to causes, sometimes that means marching, other times it's supporting people in our community when they're wronged. Otherwise, it's not really up to us to determine what's best. We can listen to our friends and community leaders and act on that. We can speak out when we see injustice. We can elect the most progressive candidates possible. Otherwise, there aren't many people who have the time to go out every weekend and devote their time to a single community or cause. It's enough to take up all of your time just get by.

So all of this high and mighty crap coming from you, Kepler, and jerp about how we're the cause can get stuffed. Some of us are doing what we can.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Business defenders in St. Paul's Midway area decided to just become walking firearms memes<br><br>(found on Snapchat ofc) <a href="https://t.co/3XBWhC7yhC">pic.twitter.com/3XBWhC7yhC</a></p>— Trenton Schoenborn (@SchoenbornTrent) <a href="https://twitter.com/SchoenbornTrent/status/1266108930071171081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well that is one way to make sure no one messes with your store

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

...a few big problems that can be fixed (imo) speaking to the issue of policing...

In my life i’ve Known 5 cops personally.

The 2 I know from high school were extreme bullies with terrible attitudes.

1 I played hockey with couldn’t control his temper and got into fights every game due to his lack of self control.

The other 2 are well adjusted and well respected.

I bring this up because I think policing has more than its share of those first 3 guys and fewer of the well adjusted types. Beyond that, one of the good cops was at a department in a Waukesha suburb and get this...he was reprimanded for not giving out tickets and pulling over more minorities. Fact. Singled out for not being racist.

There’s a corner where the city meets suburb x and the police used to call the patrol at that corner “the gatekeeper”.

Anyway, add to this the militarization Of PD’s across America either with armaments or with ex-military etc and that worsens things.

Double their pay, double the rigor with which they’re scrutinized before becoming cops, rotate them to desk duty regularly to decompress and quintuple their psychological evaluations and provide assistance for ptsd.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

But just because they are inevitable doesnt mean we have to condone it. We understand sooner or later things were going to blow up but that doesnt excuse lawless behavior.

It's neither to be condoned or not, it's an explosion outside the rules of ordinary society. It's analogous to war -- it's class war. Nonsense like "Just War Theory" aside, it's a breakdown of the rules. When the state does that we have all sorts of rationalizations. When the people do it not so much, because the state reserves the right to break the rules with violence and then educates us that that is justified.

But when things get bad enough, people abrogate that contract. You can decry it all you like; this is not inside the usual script.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">targets are closing all over and looting is breaking out in the suburbs. The oakdale hyvee has barricaded it’s doors <a href="https://t.co/NHAp9xut0H">pic.twitter.com/NHAp9xut0H</a></p>— Alex &#55357;&#56369; (@CatboyPsyop) <a href="https://twitter.com/CatboyPsyop/status/1266109016297680899?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tell me the story again where throwing bricks off bridges onto random motorists is helping.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

I think the question that’s being raised is that are we, as in white folks like you and me, really doing the best we can to help or are we just paying lip service?

I dont have any power...I am just a middle class shlub in the burbs. I dont own a business and I have no real influence. I do what is within my power to do. I vote for liberal and progressive candidates almost exclusively, I give money to foundations that support civil rights, fair practices, equality in business and support those local communities. I advocate more than most. I teach at a school that is majority immigrants and low income students and I give way more than my share to help fund scholarships for the student body.

If that is considered paying lip service fine. I will argue otherwise but there is no way to really measure the degree to which someone does or does not truly fight. As opportunities come around to help I take advantage of them.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">targets are closing all over and looting is breaking out in the suburbs. The oakdale hyvee has barricaded it’s doors <a href="https://t.co/NHAp9xut0H">pic.twitter.com/NHAp9xut0H</a></p>— Alex �� (@CatboyPsyop) <a href="https://twitter.com/CatboyPsyop/status/1266109016297680899?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tell me the story again where throwing bricks off bridges onto random motorists is helping.

This whole good and evil thing is really holding you back, dx.

Next time you see a tornado ask it if it's good or evil.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

That is an awful analogy. Tornadoes dont choose to act as destructive forces. People on a bridge with a brick can make a choice to do or do not. Tornadoes arent sentient.

Violent acts arent forces of nature. If someone drops a brick off the bridge and it kills someone they are still guilty of murder even if they are rioting for legit reasons.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 7: What Could Go Wrong?

This whole good and evil thing is really holding you back, dx.

Next time you see a tornado ask it if it's good or evil.

Then it's time to call the national guard because you're describing a natural disaster.