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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Handyman said:
I don't care what the case is that is too far. I don't care if blood can't help forced catherization is ridiculous. Criminals have rights too.
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I agree they have rights. I would like to find out more info about this type of info-collecting. If a blood test (which can be a forced procedure to my understanding) can provide the same info as a forced urine test, then my opinion most definitely changes. Make no mistake, I want to know everything I can before I form an opinion on this. IF I had to say anything right now, I would ssy no to the forced urine test.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

If done without consent and/or medical necessity, I would not hesitate to call it cruel and unusual punishment. You feel every inch of that needle, and heaven help you if they have trouble getting it past your prostate.

They should at least be given the choice to pee in a cup when faced with the warrant. Like the guy who said he would, but was told "too late". That's complete BS.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
For a minor, absolutely this is appalling.

I am unsure about what I think for an adult, if a warrant is obtained. It's like a blood-test warrant, etc. In the adult's case, would a blood test have given the same info as a urine test? If not, how else would that certain information be collected? If it can be collected another way, then I am against the forced procedures.
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Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

WisconsinWildcard said:
Even with a warrant, a cath is an unnecessary medical procedure and medical professionals at a hospital should not participate with it. Our hospital's legal team would have our back (because it has come up) if the local police were to suggest doing it. It is not our role or job to collect evidence.
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There are where my questions come from.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
There are where my questions come from.
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A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

Edit:
As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

WisconsinWildcard said:
A cath would be necessary if there was evidence of retaining urine (and unable to void) or we were trying to diagnose a urinary tract infection. Beyond that, there is not much in the emergency room that would require it. If we were to obtain a urine sample through those means for those reasons, we still would not submit it to the police so they could test it for drugs. We are not there to collect evidence.

If medically it is important to know if the patient was taking something we can run a urine drug screen. However, (at least where I practice), the police do not have access to that (at least right away) and have to go through the courts to get access to the patient's confidential health records.

It is a little difference with prisoners but the thing I always remember is I cannot tell them when they might leave. Beyond that (and having two armed guards in the room) there is not much different from a "normal" patient.

Edit:
As for a blood test, we at the hospital are not the ones obtaining it for the police (nor should we).
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Thank you for the information. I will take you at your word that what you say is true, and if that's the case, then this is way over the line.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Brenthoven said:
Thank you for the information. I will take you at your word that what you say is true, and if that's the case, then this is way over the line.
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Of course :)

It may be different at different institutions/states. I personally would never work for a place that would not have my back, legally, in those situations. It is crucial to maintain the doctor-patient relationship and trust. If a patient (or suspect) feels that I do not have their best interests first and foremost, it will hurt their care.

I have plenty of stroke patients who test positive for cocaine (much less than directly admit to it). I know it is not the same scenario as the above but I think it has importance to the underlying principle. It is much easier for me to provide better care, prevent the next stroke, get them the resources they need if they trust me and do not have to worry about the criminal justice system finding out they used an illegal substance.

I have also learned to test everyone, trust no one (100% that is). If those test results were easily obtained by police I would be much more hesitant to test them, or I would talk to the patient and get consent before running certain tests.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

WisconsinWildcard said:
Of course :)

It may be different at different institutions/states. I personally would never work for a place that would not have my back, legally, in those situations. It is crucial to maintain the doctor-patient relationship and trust. If a patient (or suspect) feels that I do not have their best interests first and foremost, it will hurt their care.

I have plenty of stroke patients who test positive for cocaine (much less than directly admit to it). I know it is not the same scenario as the above but I think it has importance to the underlying principle. It is much easier for me to provide better care, prevent the next stroke, get them the resources they need if they trust me and do not have to worry about the criminal justice system finding out they used an illegal substance.

I have also learned to test everyone, trust no one (100% that is). If those test results were easily obtained by police I would be much more hesitant to test them, or I would talk to the patient and get consent before running certain tests.
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I am obviously known as a cop-lover around these parts, in general, but I do try to get all info before I make a statement. In this case, there are (or could be) a LOT of gray areas, so I was hesitant to say how I felt one way or the other. Your input is appreciated.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Just a Few More Bad Apples

The victim is no innocent...but he didnt deserve to be assaulted. I am sure we will hear otherwise though...

I especially enjoy when the hero cop runs up towards the end as the victim is on the ground cuffed and curbstomps him. I bet that true American Hero feared for his life as he ran his worthless POS *** to help. What a piece of dripslime.

edit: Link from the article to This Incident

Another true American Hero assaulting a black man for friggin Jaywalking.
 
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

With all the cameras these days I can't believe there are still so many idiots out there. I've watched Live PD a few times (it got boring after 2-3 episodes) but the cops they followed never once got out of line even in situations where I might not have blamed them.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Slap Shot said:
With all the cameras these days I can't believe there are still so many idiots out there. I've watched Live PD a few times (it got boring after 2-3 episodes) but the cops they followed never once got out of line even in situations where I might not have blamed them.
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A combination of entitlement and idiocy.

This is like a white window on what blacks have experienced for... well, forever. NWA was onto something.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

ShirtlessBob said:
Study: Grand Rapids, MI... black drivers are twice as likely to be stopped and searched.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/04/grand_rapids_police_present_re.html

And we had to study to find this out?
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There are a lot of things that we "know" to be true in my office, but we have to perform analysis in order to prove it out before presenting to management. This is just the public sector's public policy version of that same thing.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
No matter how you slice it, stupidity abounds on both sides of this story. And of course the dash cam malfunctioned; how convenient.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/04/16/barmans-arrest/100413974/
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Trooper Artfitch, who joined the State Police in 2014, testified to his version of the encounter. He said he and his partner were driving north on U.S. 131
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I've never known State Police to double up on patrol.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SonofSouthie said:
I've never known State Police to double up on patrol.
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They have to be prepared to face some really dangerous people. Or maybe some unarmed 83 year old guy, I don't know. This incident is more proof that we allow the wrong people to be in law enforcement and we fail miserably to train them. If I saw a couple of cops do something like this to my dad, I'd probably be spending the rest of my life behind bars, because nothing would stop me from extracting some serious vengeance.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Shirtless Guy said:
Let's be honest, hate crime law is pretty stupid, and to expect them not to go there eventually was silly.
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I dunno, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the practicality of hate crime law and everything to do with the cluelessness of rural Maryland white herpa-derps, or as I like to call them, my neighbors.
 
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