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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
You are misunderstanding me. My ONLY point is that he MAY have had a gun. And people are going to say he did not ONLY because the wife said he didn't. THAT is what is troubling me. This is a separate concern than the cops' actions.
You are misunderstanding me. My ONLY point is that he MAY have had a gun. And people are going to say he did not ONLY because the wife said he didn't. THAT is what is troubling me. This is a separate concern than the cops' actions.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
There is only one thing you can do that is worthy of being shot by anyone, and that is if you are trying to do great physical harm to them. Anymore most of the people being shot by the police are not doing even that. Now the mere belief by a cop that you MIGHT pose a risk to them seems to be grounds for lethal force. Good lord is America an effed up place at the moment. I took down my American flag during the Hurricane Katrina clustereff. I've been waiting for the time that I was proud enough to put it back up. It almost happened when enough of us realized the color of a person's skin had no bearing on how well that person could serve as president. But when the Marine down the street flew his American flag upside down on the pole with his Marine Corps flag the day after Obama was elected in 2008 I decided we still had a way to go. Sadly, we have backtracked a whole hell of a lot in 8 years.
There is only one thing you can do that is worthy of being shot by anyone, and that is if you are trying to do great physical harm to them. Anymore most of the people being shot by the police are not doing even that. Now the mere belief by a cop that you MIGHT pose a risk to them seems to be grounds for lethal force. Good lord is America an effed up place at the moment. I took down my American flag during the Hurricane Katrina clustereff. I've been waiting for the time that I was proud enough to put it back up. It almost happened when enough of us realized the color of a person's skin had no bearing on how well that person could serve as president. But when the Marine down the street flew his American flag upside down on the pole with his Marine Corps flag the day after Obama was elected in 2008 I decided we still had a way to go. Sadly, we have backtracked a whole hell of a lot in 8 years.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
The other thing I hear is that the cop took the shot on the chance the "assailant" takes the shot. "Self defence" is quite different when you have the magic badge...
The other thing I hear is that the cop took the shot on the chance the "assailant" takes the shot. "Self defence" is quite different when you have the magic badge...
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Pre-emptive self defense...what is this The Minority Report?
I read a meme on Facebook that made me smile...said how protesters shouldn't riot they should choose peaceful forms of protest like raising a fist or taking a knee cause who would object to that. (obviously sarcastic)
Pre-emptive self defense...what is this The Minority Report?
I read a meme on Facebook that made me smile...said how protesters shouldn't riot they should choose peaceful forms of protest like raising a fist or taking a knee cause who would object to that. (obviously sarcastic)
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Here's a picture released by Charlotte PD purported to be the gun. It's a Colt Mustang .380 which is a very small gun, like this.
FWIW The first thing I noticed is the hammer is back which is ok. You would carry this "cocked and locked". (Hammer back, safety engaged.) But the safety is off on this gun.
Here's a picture released by Charlotte PD purported to be the gun. It's a Colt Mustang .380 which is a very small gun, like this.
FWIW The first thing I noticed is the hammer is back which is ok. You would carry this "cocked and locked". (Hammer back, safety engaged.) But the safety is off on this gun.
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Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Is that why he was shot?
Regardless if Mr. Scott's tragic end will be ultimately be termed justified or not, my guess is a reason in this case would be that the NRA doesn't support felons having guns.
Is that why he was shot?
Regardless if Mr. Scott's tragic end will be ultimately be termed justified or not, my guess is a reason in this case would be that the NRA doesn't support felons having guns.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Uh huh I am sure that is exactly why...lets not let the fact that the NRA leadership dragged their feet to defend Philando Castile (who had a legal carry license) and were called out by their own membership for it. He wasnt a felon so why did they not do everything in their power to make sure to support and defend his right to not be shot for legally brandishing a firearm? What is so different about him then the rest of the guys they bend over backwards to defend?
Article About the Scott Shooting
"Putney [Police Chief] had said, before the videos were released, that "there is no definitive visual evidence that he had a gun in his hand."
So as of now there is zero evidence this guy was a threat (even the chief said there is no evidence he had a gun in his hand and he is hardly unbiased) but yet he was shot and killed. Meanwhile they werent even there for him but apparently "saw him rolling a joint" and a few minutes later he is dead. This is ridiculous people shouldnt be dying over this crap. This wild west mentality of police officers has to stop. This isnt Lethal Weapon or Die Hard, not everyone is out to kill you. I get the job is hard and your life is on the line and I truly do respect that but if you are honestly that afraid then dont be a flipping cop.
And if the wife is telling the truth and Scott has traumatic brain injury then it is even worse. It is time for police training to enter the 21st century when it comes to this stuff.
And for those ripping the protesters let me ask you a question...would you honestly feel any different than they do? White guy shoots up a church and he is allowed to surrender and no harm comes to him...black guy sits in a car, or has a car stalled in the street, or gets pulled over in Suburban Minnesota and they end up dead with no evidence (other than their color and that they MIGHT have a record) they were a threat to anyone. If you were black how would that make you feel? Then add in the fact that when a famous athlete decides to use his public forum to stand up for you people burn his jersey, tear him to shreds or wish harm on him and you know what I would be pretty ****ed off. (not to mention the leader of a party, running for President is one of the most Racist and bigoted people to run for a major party in the past 50 years)
Uh huh I am sure that is exactly why...lets not let the fact that the NRA leadership dragged their feet to defend Philando Castile (who had a legal carry license) and were called out by their own membership for it. He wasnt a felon so why did they not do everything in their power to make sure to support and defend his right to not be shot for legally brandishing a firearm? What is so different about him then the rest of the guys they bend over backwards to defend?
Article About the Scott Shooting
"Putney [Police Chief] had said, before the videos were released, that "there is no definitive visual evidence that he had a gun in his hand."
So as of now there is zero evidence this guy was a threat (even the chief said there is no evidence he had a gun in his hand and he is hardly unbiased) but yet he was shot and killed. Meanwhile they werent even there for him but apparently "saw him rolling a joint" and a few minutes later he is dead. This is ridiculous people shouldnt be dying over this crap. This wild west mentality of police officers has to stop. This isnt Lethal Weapon or Die Hard, not everyone is out to kill you. I get the job is hard and your life is on the line and I truly do respect that but if you are honestly that afraid then dont be a flipping cop.
And if the wife is telling the truth and Scott has traumatic brain injury then it is even worse. It is time for police training to enter the 21st century when it comes to this stuff.
And for those ripping the protesters let me ask you a question...would you honestly feel any different than they do? White guy shoots up a church and he is allowed to surrender and no harm comes to him...black guy sits in a car, or has a car stalled in the street, or gets pulled over in Suburban Minnesota and they end up dead with no evidence (other than their color and that they MIGHT have a record) they were a threat to anyone. If you were black how would that make you feel? Then add in the fact that when a famous athlete decides to use his public forum to stand up for you people burn his jersey, tear him to shreds or wish harm on him and you know what I would be pretty ****ed off. (not to mention the leader of a party, running for President is one of the most Racist and bigoted people to run for a major party in the past 50 years)
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Because of the jumping to conclusions. Wait for evidence to come out before going off the rails, you know?
Because of the jumping to conclusions. Wait for evidence to come out before going off the rails, you know?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Shouldnt it be "troubling" that another person is dead by cops hands? Leaving out the rest jsut based on what little we know shouldnt you be troubled by that? Why do I never see the 100% cop defenders ever say something like that?
Hey here is another awesome video
Even the police chief was sickened by the arrest...I am sure the cop will say he felt threatened though...she was only unarmed about about 100 pounds lighter then him he definitely needed to body slam her to the ground from her car, put her in a choke hold and whip her around on the ground like a ragdoll. All because she was pulled over for speeding and seemed to not realize it when she got out of her car.
Ya know what...video is starting to show that this is no longer a few bad apples, this crap is everywhere.
Shouldnt it be "troubling" that another person is dead by cops hands? Leaving out the rest jsut based on what little we know shouldnt you be troubled by that? Why do I never see the 100% cop defenders ever say something like that?
Hey here is another awesome video
Even the police chief was sickened by the arrest...I am sure the cop will say he felt threatened though...she was only unarmed about about 100 pounds lighter then him he definitely needed to body slam her to the ground from her car, put her in a choke hold and whip her around on the ground like a ragdoll. All because she was pulled over for speeding and seemed to not realize it when she got out of her car.
Ya know what...video is starting to show that this is no longer a few bad apples, this crap is everywhere.
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WeAreNDHockey
\../ \../
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
I have been saying that for longer than I can remember. If it was uncommon, then the police would be playing all the video evidence of them behaving professionally and only using force when it was necessary. I have long said I want to see one -- just one -- police department share all of the videos of arrests they make in a year. Show us how your cops behave all the time. If the vast, vast majority of them show the cops behaving like they claim they do, then we can all shut up about this.
One of the main reasons this is allowed to continue is the police will pull out all of the stops politically if they even sense a mayor is going to criticize them. It is similar to the tactics they use when a citizen asks questions or behaves in any manner at all other than complete subservience when encountering law enforcement. They overwhelm the citizen, guns drawn, tazers fired, yelling "quit resisting, quit resisting" so witnesses who might otherwise believe differently hear that the citizen was "resisting." So when police behave improperly, the mayor knows he or she is not free to speak honestly about whatever the events were. The mayor of South Bend is a perfect example of this. The South Bend PD is riddled with scandal. Violent arrests, cops repeatedly allowed back on the streets after numerous violent or bullying encounters with the public. Yet when the latest high profile example occurs, the arrest of a Notre Dame football player where numerous cops are accused of falsifying arrest reports, the mayor makes the most wishy-washy statements he possibly can, because he knows if he even utters something as innocuous "yes we are aware of some questions about the officer's past history and we are taking seriously the comments of those who witnessed this arrest" he knows the police will mount an all-out attack on him. And too many people are sheep, who while they hate and distrust almost all forms of government somehow believe that law enforcement is the one area of government that is working great.
Police in most areas have an undeclared war on the populace they are supposed to be serving and protecting. It has gradually gotten worse and worse over the last 15-20 years. 9-11 turned them all into heroes for some reason, and blinded too many people to the fact that many are not. Myths about the dangers of their job have been allowed to become truth. Any perceived threat now is grounds for the use of potentially lethal force. Sadly if you don't see this now, there is only one thing that will change your mind, and it is something I hope never happens to you. When you have a loved one gunned down by a police officer for no reason at all, then you will come around.
I have been saying that for longer than I can remember. If it was uncommon, then the police would be playing all the video evidence of them behaving professionally and only using force when it was necessary. I have long said I want to see one -- just one -- police department share all of the videos of arrests they make in a year. Show us how your cops behave all the time. If the vast, vast majority of them show the cops behaving like they claim they do, then we can all shut up about this.
One of the main reasons this is allowed to continue is the police will pull out all of the stops politically if they even sense a mayor is going to criticize them. It is similar to the tactics they use when a citizen asks questions or behaves in any manner at all other than complete subservience when encountering law enforcement. They overwhelm the citizen, guns drawn, tazers fired, yelling "quit resisting, quit resisting" so witnesses who might otherwise believe differently hear that the citizen was "resisting." So when police behave improperly, the mayor knows he or she is not free to speak honestly about whatever the events were. The mayor of South Bend is a perfect example of this. The South Bend PD is riddled with scandal. Violent arrests, cops repeatedly allowed back on the streets after numerous violent or bullying encounters with the public. Yet when the latest high profile example occurs, the arrest of a Notre Dame football player where numerous cops are accused of falsifying arrest reports, the mayor makes the most wishy-washy statements he possibly can, because he knows if he even utters something as innocuous "yes we are aware of some questions about the officer's past history and we are taking seriously the comments of those who witnessed this arrest" he knows the police will mount an all-out attack on him. And too many people are sheep, who while they hate and distrust almost all forms of government somehow believe that law enforcement is the one area of government that is working great.
Police in most areas have an undeclared war on the populace they are supposed to be serving and protecting. It has gradually gotten worse and worse over the last 15-20 years. 9-11 turned them all into heroes for some reason, and blinded too many people to the fact that many are not. Myths about the dangers of their job have been allowed to become truth. Any perceived threat now is grounds for the use of potentially lethal force. Sadly if you don't see this now, there is only one thing that will change your mind, and it is something I hope never happens to you. When you have a loved one gunned down by a police officer for no reason at all, then you will come around.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
But it's OK, regardless of the evidence that is posthumously determined, that the 6th and 8th amendments were violated?
But it's OK, regardless of the evidence that is posthumously determined, that the 6th and 8th amendments were violated?
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Now that I am not on a mobile device (easier for me to use a laptop/etc):
Protesters: The Charlotte protests, minus a hiccup or two, I was impressed. They got their message across peacefully. I commend that.
Kapernuts: Again, he has the right to do what he did, I think he's taking a wrong approach by kneeling. I think there are better ways of protesting/getting involved (I know he donated some money, it's a start; get really involved, though; in person stuff).
Finally, just because I'm not immediately condemning officers doesn't mean I'm excusing them. When all the facts that we can get are revealed, THEN I will make up my mind.
Now that I am not on a mobile device (easier for me to use a laptop/etc):
Protesters: The Charlotte protests, minus a hiccup or two, I was impressed. They got their message across peacefully. I commend that.
Kapernuts: Again, he has the right to do what he did, I think he's taking a wrong approach by kneeling. I think there are better ways of protesting/getting involved (I know he donated some money, it's a start; get really involved, though; in person stuff).
Finally, just because I'm not immediately condemning officers doesn't mean I'm excusing them. When all the facts that we can get are revealed, THEN I will make up my mind.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
And you see what we are saying is it doesnt NOT go without saying because that is where the divide hits. Most people dont say anything about (I apologize I am using you as the example I dont honestly mean you) it and only talk about it much like you do, well it would probably make the minority communities feel better if the people saying "lets wait for the evidence" or who automatically ask questions about the victim (in cases where it is unclear what prompted the death) said before all that "No matter the case, we are saddened by the death and we feel for the family." Hell we see randos on boards like this send "thoughts and prayers" out to anyone who ever stubbed a toe but how many people are doing that for the families of these victims?
it isnt about defending the cops, cops deserve the right be defended too. I just think it would go a long way to make the communities feel better if everyone, including the police and their defenders, talked about how tragic the situation is. The silence is deafening...
And you see what we are saying is it doesnt NOT go without saying because that is where the divide hits. Most people dont say anything about (I apologize I am using you as the example I dont honestly mean you) it and only talk about it much like you do, well it would probably make the minority communities feel better if the people saying "lets wait for the evidence" or who automatically ask questions about the victim (in cases where it is unclear what prompted the death) said before all that "No matter the case, we are saddened by the death and we feel for the family." Hell we see randos on boards like this send "thoughts and prayers" out to anyone who ever stubbed a toe but how many people are doing that for the families of these victims?
it isnt about defending the cops, cops deserve the right be defended too. I just think it would go a long way to make the communities feel better if everyone, including the police and their defenders, talked about how tragic the situation is. The silence is deafening...
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Very commendable to get everything together and make a decision. Unfortunately, for one of the parties, it is posthumous.
Very commendable to get everything together and make a decision. Unfortunately, for one of the parties, it is posthumous.
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