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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The Sicatoka said:
Can the dragnet get Jill and Ajamu also?
https://www.thenation.com/article/there-is-an-arrest-warrant-out-for-jill-stein/

The "protesters" down there have been trespassing on private property. And committed vandalism. I have hard spots with both of those.
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I have no issue in principle with that she's doing. As the article points out, it's a time-honored political protest tactic:

Stein is using her Green Party candidacy to support and highlight popular struggles, as have left-wing independent and third-party presidential and vice presidential contenders throughout American history: including former vice president Henry Wallace and Idaho Senator Glen Taylor (whose 1948 Progressive Party campaign challenged segregation by holding integrated events in Southern states, leading to Taylor’s arrest and conviction for attempting to use a door reserved for African Americans in Birmingham, Alabama), Socialists Eugene Victor Debs (who was jailed after delivering an epic anti-war speech during World War I) and Norman Thomas (who was frequently arrested and roughed up by the police when he joined union picket lines, civil-rights demonstrations and free-speech protests in the 1920s and 1930s), and Equal Rights Party presidential nominee Victoria Woodhull (who spent Election Day 1872 in New York City’s Ludlow Street Jail after publishing an expose in her Woodhull & Claflin’s Weekly newspaper).
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Of course, the most important part of the protest is actually sitting in jail. King and Thoreau made their time in the clink count and immeasurably improved America by their efforts. Perhaps Stein will do the same?

Obviously I'm not her biggest fan -- thar be Naderite dragons. But what she is doing is a Good Thing. Non-violent civil disobedience is one of the keys to a free society.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Except it could easily get violent there pretty quickly, if they continue stealing hay and other stuff from the local landowners, as has been alleged.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Except it could easily get violent there pretty quickly, if they continue stealing hay and other stuff from the local landowners, as has been alleged.
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I'm not kidding when I say I know a couple locals from down there that have legitimate concerns for the safety of their families and homes.

But my favorite is and remains the full display of irony in action.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Kepler said:
I have no issue in principle with that she's doing. As the article points out, it's a time-honored political protest tactic:



Of course, the most important part of the protest is actually sitting in jail. King and Thoreau made their time in the clink count and immeasurably improved America by their efforts. Perhaps Stein will do the same?

Obviously I'm not her biggest fan -- thar be Naderite dragons. But what she is doing is a Good Thing. Non-violent civil disobedience is one of the keys to a free society.
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But again, how is this really any different than what the Bundys did out in Oregon or wherever it was at? Both groups trespassed. Both did so because of legitimately held beliefs, no matter what the rest of us may think of those beliefs.

You guys were all quick to demand the army invade Oregon to take the Bundys down. Why not now?

And for what it's worth, I don't think either group has a right to just occupy private or federal land just because they don't like the government's policies. But what I'm seeing here is that if certain posters have sympathy for the political causes of one group, but not the other, or if they simply don't like one group because of their political leanings, it's ok to go in and forcibly evict one group but let the other stay for so long as they want?
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SJHovey said:
But again, how is this really any different than what the Bundys did out in Oregon or wherever it was at? Both groups trespassed. Both did so because of legitimately held beliefs, no matter what the rest of us may think of those beliefs.

You guys were all quick to demand the army invade Oregon to take the Bundys down. Why not now?
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Well in both cases I'm advocating that they go to jail, so I'm not saying that the law ought to be applied differently.

As far as my ideological preference, of course I agree with Stein. IMO, the Bundy's gig is stealing -- their "principled protest" was they wanted to continue stealing. They're the WBC of ranching. They also still haven't got this message re: the Supremacy Clause, and they're 220* years late to the federalism party.

* Well, I'll be charitable. 151 years late.
 
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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SJHovey said:
But again, how is this really any different than what the Bundys did out in Oregon or wherever it was at? Both groups trespassed. Both did so because of legitimately held beliefs, no matter what the rest of us may think of those beliefs.

You guys were all quick to demand the army invade Oregon to take the Bundys down. Why not now?

And for what it's worth, I don't think either group has a right to just occupy private or federal land just because they don't like the government's policies. But what I'm seeing here is that if certain posters have sympathy for the political causes of one group, but not the other, or if they simply don't like one group because of their political leanings, it's ok to go in and forcibly evict one group but let the other stay for so long as they want?
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The Bundy group was armed with rifles, which are not permitted in national parks. It made them a viable threat to others, and could be seen as amounting to a political coup of sorts. And while I think these Occupy protesters should be removed for not following the legally permitted protesting rules set forth by whichever government agency would issue such a permit, they're not really a potential threat to anybody's safety.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

St. Clown said:
The Bundy group was armed with rifles, which are not permitted in national parks. It made them a viable threat to others, and could be seen as amounting to a political coup of sorts. And while I think these Occupy protesters should be removed for not following the legally permitted protesting rules set forth by whichever government agency would issue such a permit, they're not really a potential threat to anybody's safety.
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That's a stretch. In fact, while the Bundy's may perceive themselves as some sort of sovereign nation, everybody else ignores that claim. But in North Dakota, we are talking about members of an Indian tribe that are actually considered a sovereign nation, so if we want to talk about invasions or coups or the like, we need to think about that.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SJHovey said:
That's a stretch. In fact, while the Bundy's may perceive themselves as some sort of sovereign nation, everybody else ignores that claim. But in North Dakota, we are talking about members of an Indian tribe that are actually considered a sovereign nation, so if we want to talk about invasions or coups or the like, we need to think about that.
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In what way is the Bundy situation analogous to the Sioux Nation's decreed sovereign nation status, which is recognized by the federal government?
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

St. Clown said:
In what way is the Bundy situation analogous to the Sioux Nation's decreed sovereign nation status, which is recognized by the federal government?
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That's my point. You referred to the Bundy situation as some sort of armed political coup. The Bundys are just a bunch of cowboys who still like to ride around on horses and wear sidearms and pretend that it's 1880 and the local sheriff is God. But no matter what they think, they aren't a nation unto themselves.

On the other hand, we have representatives of a sovereign nation other than the U.S. occupying not just land in the U.S., but government owned land, and everyone seems ok with that because no one likes oil pipelines. If it were Saudis occupying the land because they don't think we should build an oil pipeline would we be ok with that?

In fact, I've read some articles where part of what the local tribe is interested in is actually taking back the land from the U.S.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SJHovey said:
That's my point. You referred to the Bundy situation as some sort of armed political coup. The Bundys are just a bunch of cowboys who still like to ride around on horses and wear sidearms and pretend that it's 1880 and the local sheriff is God. But no matter what they think, they aren't a nation unto themselves.

On the other hand, we have representatives of a sovereign nation other than the U.S. occupying not just land in the U.S., but government owned land, and everyone seems ok with that because no one likes oil pipelines. If it were Saudis occupying the land because they don't think we should build an oil pipeline would we be ok with that?

In fact, I've read some articles where part of what the local tribe is interested in is actually taking back the land from the U.S.
Click to expand...

I think nobody cares about the pipeline hippies because they're not hurting anyone, and they're not armed or threatening to hurt US government officials. Business can happen around them, so they're more of an annoyance than anything else. So we take the course of action to not make a mountain out of a molehill.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Hey remember that story I posted about the dude on his mom's porch who got punched by a cop and handcuffed...Yeah He Wont Be charged

But hey...at least they resigned :rolleyes:
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Talk About Overkill!

"Margaret Holcomb is an 81-year-old grandmother with arthritis and glaucoma. She recently decided to grow a solitary marijuana plant amongst the raspberries in her fenced backyard to help her sleep at night.

Just as the plant was about to be fully grown, the Massachusetts National Guard and State Police raided her backyard with a military-style helicopter and seized the plant. "
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

When Mary Jane is legalized we're going to have to find a new boogeyman or all those jack boots will have to be returned.
 
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