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Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

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Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Brenthoven said:
I don't watch Fox. I don't get Fox. I get CNN and CNN only. My observations are from the Star Tribune (Twin Cities paper, major liberal), CNN (liberal), local Fox (conservative, but IMO mostly neutral) and general internet links (mixed).
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CNN isn't liberal, it's lazy. If you want a liberal perspective on TV, well, good luck outside of MSNBC only when Rachel's on, or your local community cable access when the crazy Trotskyite guy is on from 2:13-2:27 a.m.

Network and large cable "news" is driven by corporate dollars which have no interest in giving BLM a fair shake. Those guys never challenge the police or the military, because those are their principle shareholders' first line of defense when every 60 years or so the proles get angry for a few days.
 
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Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Kepler said:
CNN isn't liberal, it's lazy. If you want a liberal perspective on TV, well, good luck outside of MSNBC only when Rachel's on, or your local community cable access when the crazy Trotskyite guy is on from 2:13-2:27 a.m.
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I concede your point on CNN. Terrible news network. I watch for headlines, then check out the 'net for the full story.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Brenthoven said:
I concede your point on CNN. Terrible news network. I watch for headlines, then check out the 'net for the full story.
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I've completely shut them out. I've given up on any quality US-based news program. I cycle through AJ, France24, DW and the Beeb, all of which have their good and bad subjects. But there is no US-based news broadcast that I have trusted to be both thorough and objective since Uncle Walter peaced out.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Kepler said:
I've completely shut them out. I've given up on any quality US-based news program. I cycle through AJ, France24, DW and the Beeb, all of which have their good and bad subjects. But there is no US-based news broadcast that I have trusted to be both thorough and objective since Uncle Walter peaced out.
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Agreed. The BBC is a site I check out, for sure. There ARE certain CNN people I like. Don Lemon is pretty good. Still learning the others. That's about how much I pay close attention to it.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Sadly, I think we need a major adjustment in governmental policy to deal with today's unstable world. We need a major expansion of the FBI and CIA. Just like we've instituted policies of free preventative health care...we need to beef up preventative security. I believe its going to require giving up some monitoring freedoms that we've enjoyed over the last 30 years. Much of its monitoring, arresting and trying of suspects...but there should also be a part of societal improvements to continue to integrate and work others out of poverty. It will also require significant tax increases. And I know some will hate it. But we cannot sacrifice the general sense of security we've enjoyed as a society. In the end, security really is about the only component of society more important than education in terms of improvements in development.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I go to USCHO Cafe for my first and final take on important events.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

5mn_Major said:
Sadly, I think we need a major adjustment in governmental policy to deal with today's unstable world. We need a major expansion of the FBI and CIA. Just like we've instituted policies of free preventative health care...we need to beef up preventative security. I believe its going to require giving up some monitoring freedoms that we've enjoyed over the last 30 years. Much of its monitoring, arresting and trying of suspects...but there should also be a part of societal improvements to continue to integrate and work others out of poverty. It will also require significant tax increases. And I know some will hate it. But we cannot sacrifice the general sense of security we've enjoyed as a society. In the end, security really is about the only component of society more important than education in terms of improvements in development.
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In my opinion the risk of us turning ourselves into a police state is as great a long-term threat to the country as the risk of terrorism. There has to be balance and we have to be smart about it. We need to maintain an open, honest dialog about security and liberty and the balance between them. And we have to be careful about creating security apparatus which will in the natural course of institutional growth become ends in themselves and nearly impossible to get rid of.

The government panicked after 9/11 and did some incredibly stupid things which have made us far less safe. We need to be on guard about that happening again.
 
5mn_Major said:
Sadly, I think we need a major adjustment in governmental policy to deal with today's unstable world. We need a major expansion of the FBI and CIA. Just like we've instituted policies of free preventative health care...we need to beef up preventative security. I believe its going to require giving up some monitoring freedoms that we've enjoyed over the last 30 years. Much of its monitoring, arresting and trying of suspects...but there should also be a part of societal improvements to continue to integrate and work others out of poverty. It will also require significant tax increases. And I know some will hate it. But we cannot sacrifice the general sense of security we've enjoyed as a society. In the end, security really is about the only component of society more important than education in terms of improvements in development.
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All it takes is fear to punch another hole in the Constitution.

None of us were alive then, but the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)
A series of laws known collectively as the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed by the Federalist Congress in 1798 and signed into law by President Adams. These laws included new powers to deport foreigners as well as making it harder for new immigrants to vote.
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Abe suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War

The Sedition Act of 1918 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918)

Earl Warren and FDR and the Japanese

The Red Scare

The Patriot Act

Nope. They seemed like WONDERFUL ideas at the time, but a little snip here and a little snip there and pretty soon the Constitution becomes a paper tiger.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

joecct said:
All it takes is fear to punch another hole in the Constitution.

None of us were alive then, but the Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)


Abe suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War

The Sedition Act of 1918 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sed.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918)

Earl Warren and FDR and the Japanese

The Red Scare

The Patriot Act

Nope. They seemed like WONDERFUL ideas at the time, but a little snip here and a little snip there and pretty soon the Constitution becomes a paper tiger.
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I'd generally agree.

And it is not difficult to conclude that a muslim-fearing public would support the same kind of laws that let to the conviction of Bolshevik sympathizers in Abrams v. United States, which actually upheld enforcement of the Sedition Act but which also gave us Holmes' inspiring and eloquent "marketplace of ideas" dissent. At least the Sedition Act was repealed shortly after the Abrams decision.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

People often assume that if the government adds some capabilities that its automatically J Edgar time for every American citizen. So they often don't allow for any changes in the status quo and it blocks our ability to take any action at all. As much as it wants to, the government just doesn't have the resources to sit around pondering Rover's postings on USCHO.

I'm not saying profiling. I'm not saying McCarthyism. I'm not saying police state. We can significantly beef up our government's ability to address threats out there without changing the fabric of who we are. Perhaps it first requires determining 'what we will not do'...and from there we build up 'what we can do'. The unfortunate part is this all goes through the lens of politics.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

5mn_Major said:
People often assume that if the government adds some capabilities that its automatically J Edgar time for every American citizen. So they often don't allow for any changes in the status quo and it blocks our ability to take any action at all. As much as it wants to, the government just doesn't have the resources to sit around pondering Rover's postings on USCHO.

I'm not saying profiling. I'm not saying McCarthyism. I'm not saying police state. We can significantly beef up our government's ability to address threats out there without changing the fabric of who we are. Perhaps it first requires determining 'what we will not do'...and from there we build up 'what we can do'. The unfortunate part is this all goes through the lens of politics.
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And yet, with your PPACA, you gave the IRS power to go ape. Exactly the same thing as all those things you said you don't want.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

5mn_Major said:
People often assume that if the government adds some capabilities that its automatically J Edgar time for every American citizen. So they often don't allow for any changes in the status quo and it blocks our ability to take any action at all. As much as it wants to, the government just doesn't have the resources to sit around pondering Rover's postings on USCHO.

I'm not saying profiling. I'm not saying McCarthyism. I'm not saying police state. We can significantly beef up our government's ability to address threats out there without changing the fabric of who we are. Perhaps it first requires determining 'what we will not do'...and from there we build up 'what we can do'. The unfortunate part is this all goes through the lens of politics.
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The databases like no fly are a case in point. You build the technology to have a database so airlines can check potential passengers for suspicion of terrorism. But now you have the tech, so why not extend it to potential home buyers near schools for suspicion of sex crimes? You don't hate children, DO YOU?!

The not selling guns to people on the No Fly was the same sort of mission creep. And with that creep our liberties disappear.

The larger issue of surveillance and data collection is once you have the data the pressure will increase to prove you need to collect and store and analyze it and that it's not just a waste of money. So the stakeholders that are incentified to keep the programs running (bureaucrats with fiefdoms, contractors with lucrative O&M contracts, politicians with a cudgel to scare voters) start shopping for other uses for that data. And again, it's so easy to find witches. It was once Papists, then anarchists, then communists, then drug dealers, now it's pedofiles. Tomorrow who knows -- gun nuts if the liberals win; immigrants if the conservatives do? We'll keep inventing categories of crime to keep the private jails full and generating profit, and suspects to keep the investigative/intelligence infrastructure a growing budget line item.
 
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Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Privatizing jails in some (many?) states was one of the worst things done in a long, long, time. Certain things should not be run for profit, and that is one of them.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I took a look at the acceleration of terror activities by year, and this 'isn't just going away'. Five years to 2004, the US averaged 2.5 terror acts a year. Five years to 2009, the US averaged 4.8 terror acts a year. Five years to 2014, the US averaged 5.5 terror acts a year. And in 2015 until now, the US is averaging 15 terror acts per year.

http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/10/a-timeline-of-73-islamist-terror-plots-since-911/

Although I would edit the following to include domestic terror...the following from the Heritage Foundation is pretty much accurate:

As depicted by this timeline, the threat of terrorism is not receding. Congress should maintain a proactive approach to combatting terrorism, ensuring that law enforcement and intelligence organizations have access to legitimate investigative and surveillance tools. The need for effective counterterrorism operations, though, does not relieve the government of its obligation to follow the law and respect individual privacy and liberty. In the American system, the government must do both equally well. The U.S. should also support stronger action against Islamist terrorist groups abroad to combat those forces radicalizing individuals to attack the U.S.

Don't really get the 'let's do nothing' crowd. But I'm a serious progressive and as you do in any change, build in safe guards rather than find excuses.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

unofan said:
Privatizing jails in some (many?) states was one of the worst things done in a long, long, time. Certain things should not be run for profit, and that is one of them.
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You know what the ironic thing is? Groups that petition against the prison-industrial complex are pushing for private police forces.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I look at this this way. Realistically, if the gubmint wanted to know I was in Chicago this week, and where I've been spending money, and who I've been talking to on the phone, they could figure it out pretty quick with some help from a friendly judge.

I'm about to go through security at ORD in a few hours. Given that TSA failures are very well-documented at this point, what do you think the odds are that they would find, say, a jar of giardiniera stashed in my carry-on (one larger than 3 oz.)? I won't try it, but I bet I could get away with it on a busy Friday night.

Has any of this big data collection or security theater made us safer? I don't think so. And you want to expand surveillance? I'll pass unless you can prove it will actually help. And even then, I would be skeptical.
 
Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I look at this this way. Realistically, if the gubmint wanted to know I was in Chicago this week, and where I've been spending money, and who I've been talking to on the phone, they could figure it out pretty quick with some help from a friendly judge.

I'm about to go through security at ORD in a few hours. Given that TSA failures are very well-documented at this point, what do you think the odds are that they would find, say, a jar of giardiniera stashed in my carry-on (one larger than 3 oz.)? I won't try it, but I bet I could get away with it on a busy Friday night.

Has any of this big data collection or security theater made us safer? I don't think so. And you want to expand surveillance? I'll pass unless you can prove it will actually help. And even then, I would be skeptical.
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The Toilet Seat Administration has admitted it's done nothing towards security. However, Ben Franklin was right: By sacrificing our liberties for temporary security, we deserve neither.
 
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