Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

That is still far more deaths than other countries of similar economic status. Also I like how they're blamed for exercising their 2nd amendment rights in the end of that segment


Sure but when you account for their respective population sizes blacks get killed at a far higher rate. That's either a really dumb or dishonest use of statistics.

You can't look at overall population size. The correct comparison is to the overall crime rate by race. According to the FBI

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...ables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf#disablemobile

29% of the total arrests in the USA are african americans. The stats in The Economist article show that 26% of the people killed by police are african american.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I have had my car broken into 3 times...twice in Uptown (they stole nothing) and once in Plymouth (they stole tons of stuff) and never in North Minneapolis two blocks off Broadway. Guess what I can give anecdotal evidence too.

Women get raped in Uptown, people shoot cops in Plymouth and Crystal...black people get shot in cars in Falcon Heights. Should we talk about who is dangerous in Phalen?

Any cop who told you that btw is a tool. They say stuff like that in Newark...to do so on flipping Broadway Ave is so laughable I wonder if the cop was drunk.

I took it as "Not the best idea to be here, so just leave quickly." It's not like there was a lot of traffic or anything. He didn't make it sound like we would be shot at any given time. He made a decision based on a number of factors, IMO.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Sure, you can be in North Minneapolis (the bad part) in the middle of the night, and be fine, but why would you want to be there?

 

[state of hockey]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I live in North MPLS and have had my car broken into. Nothing taken because nothing was in there. Also only happened because I left the doors unlocked.

Now, I don't live near Broadway, but I end up driving down it a lot. Never had an issue. Of course, walking around by yourself in the middle of the night isn't recommended.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I live in North MPLS and have had my car broken into. Nothing taken because nothing was in there. Also only happened because I left the doors unlocked.

Now, I don't live near Broadway, but I end up driving down it a lot. Never had an issue. Of course, walking around by yourself in the middle of the night isn't recommended.

There are good sections of North. Buddy's grandma has lived there for YEARS and zero problems. She is near the bad part, but not actually in it.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I live in North MPLS and have had my car broken into. Nothing taken because nothing was in there. Also only happened because I left the doors unlocked.

Now, I don't live near Broadway, but I end up driving down it a lot. Never had an issue. Of course, walking around by yourself in the middle of the night isn't recommended.

I don't think there's a reason to worry about your area, you're several blocks from an area I'd consider dangerous.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

You can't look at overall population size. The correct comparison is to the overall crime rate by race. According to the FBI

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...ables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf#disablemobile

29% of the total arrests in the USA are african americans. The stats in The Economist article show that 26% of the people killed by police are african american.

Actually you can nice diversion. Crime stats have very little to do with cops shooting people who weren't committing a crime or were of zero threat like in Baton Rouge and various other instances that have been mentioned here and elsewhere.

Any cop who told you that btw is a tool. They say stuff like that in Newark...to do so on flipping Broadway Ave is so laughable I wonder if the cop was drunk.

Glad we have people like that on the force!

 

[Stauber1]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

A few years ago, coming down Broadway around midnight, my (white) friends and I in the car, I had a broken tail-light or something. Got pulled over. Got a fixit ticket, and was told to run every red light until I was out of the neighborhood. Don't stop. Cop gave me a card with his number on it, in case a different cop pulled me over for running any lights.

Yeah well...

Kind of long story, but it seems relevant.
I play quite a bit of soccer, and a few years ago was playing down with one of our affiliate teams in a different division because they were short players. The game was out in Chanhassen and I was living right by Theo Wirth at the time. This was when I was biking everywhere and didn't have a car. No problem, the manager said he could give me a ride. So he and another guy come and pick me up, we're talking on the drive out to Chanhassen. He asks what I do and where I work and I tell him downtown. He asks "so you bike there? what route?" And I tell him I usually take Theo Wirth Pkwy over to Glenwood and then take Glenwood into downtown. He looks back in the rear view mirror and says "oh....you go right through it."
I say what?
He tells me he works as a cop on the north side, and then goes into this long diatribe about how terrible the people are, at one point saying "they're all a bunch of maggots." He repeats that term again later.

It was really eye opening to hear a person refer to the entire population of a community he is supposed to serve and protect like that. Didn't seem worth it to try to explain I lived "right through it" for 15 years of my youth and another couple after college and couldn't recall ever personally being a victim of violent crime.

Anyway, the point is, cops aren't immune from warped perceptions.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Seems relevant to the most recent conversations:

From The Economist: "For example, on its website, the group claims that “every 28 hours a black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.” That is a deeply questionable claim. According to the Washington Post, which is running a tally, 155 black people have been killed by police so far this year—out of 607 total. That is not quite one every 28 hours—but no matter. What is important, however, is that less than a tenth of this total was unarmed, 24 of whom were black. So to state that every black person killed by a police officer in a country as violent as America is “murdered” is inaccurate. Sure, 155 people killed by police is too many, and 607 is a problem, but of those who were black 85% were armed."
"But it bears mentioning that many of these same poor, black people desperately need the police, too. It should not be considered a right-wing talking point to note that far more black people are killed by other black people than by police officers. Baltimore alone has had over 200 murders so far this year—almost all of young black men. What black people in cities such as Baltimore and St Louis need isn’t less policing. It is better, less institutionally-racist, less thuggish policing that actually solves crimes. If so many murders didn’t go unsolved, then perhaps there would be fewer of them."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/08/race-and-criminal-justice

Point 1: Not only blacks are getting killed by police, in face more whites and latinos are killed by police each year.
Point 2: A large majority of people killed by police are armed and a legitimate threat to the police.
Point 3: Far more black people are killed by other black people than by the police.

If everyone were to focus on these facts, maybe there could be some progress made. Correct issues with the police forces, regardless of race. Start to clean up dangerous neighborhoods by engaging the law abiding citizens and actually start preventing a much larger killer of people: gang violence.

All fair points, but I think that last week showed just how relevant the "armed" descriptor is with AA victims. You don't even have to reach for it, much less draw it, to get the death penalty.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Any cop who told you that btw is a tool. They say stuff like that in Newark...

Not anymore. Newark instituted the model program for recruiting police from the neighborhoods they patrol and incentified them to live in the community. The results were great -- not only did crime decrease but the number and intensity of negative police/civilian interactions cratered.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

All fair points, but I think that last week showed just how relevant the "armed" descriptor is with AA victims. You don't even have to reach for it, much less draw it, to get the death penalty.

That is where my point of "correct issues with the police forces" comes in.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Trump is all in on the "BLM is racist" rhetoric. That will play well with his constituency. Not sure anybody else is going to fall for it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

That is where my point of "correct issues with the police forces" comes in.

Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of corruption with the executive branches around this country that not only permit, but encourage this to happen. When was the last time a proper redress of grievances was attempted? It's about high time they meet their Magna Carta. Hey, if it works to say "met his Waterloo"...

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Trump is all in on the "BLM is racist" rhetoric. That will play well with his constituency. Not sure anybody else is going to fall for it.

Considering their message is "we're always the victim and are never guilty", is anyone surprised?

 

[unofan]

Seems relevant to the most recent conversations:

From The Economist: "For example, on its website, the group claims that “every 28 hours a black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.” That is a deeply questionable claim. According to the Washington Post, which is running a tally, 155 black people have been killed by police so far this year—out of 607 total. That is not quite one every 28 hours—but no matter. What is important, however, is that less than a tenth of this total was unarmed, 24 of whom were black. So to state that every black person killed by a police officer in a country as violent as America is “murdered” is inaccurate. Sure, 155 people killed by police is too many, and 607 is a problem, but of those who were black 85% were armed."
"But it bears mentioning that many of these same poor, black people desperately need the police, too. It should not be considered a right-wing talking point to note that far more black people are killed by other black people than by police officers. Baltimore alone has had over 200 murders so far this year—almost all of young black men. What black people in cities such as Baltimore and St Louis need isn’t less policing. It is better, less institutionally-racist, less thuggish policing that actually solves crimes. If so many murders didn’t go unsolved, then perhaps there would be fewer of them."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/08/race-and-criminal-justice

Point 1: Not only blacks are getting killed by police, in face more whites and latinos are killed by police each year.
Point 2: A large majority of people killed by police are armed and a legitimate threat to the police.
Point 3: Far more black people are killed by other black people than by the police.

If everyone were to focus on these facts, maybe there could be some progress made. Correct issues with the police forces, regardless of race. Start to clean up dangerous neighborhoods by engaging the law abiding citizens and actually start preventing a much larger killer of people: gang violence.

155 out of 607 is about 25%. African Americans make up 13% of the population. That is disproportionate even if more Whites are killed in terms of a raw count.

Both of the most recent killings involved armed men, neither of whom were reaching for their weapons or otherwise threatening police (presuming you believe your own eyes for the Louisiana shooting and the girlfriends account in Minnesota). Besides, you're Mr. 2nd Amendment around here; are you saying cops have a right to shoot anyone carrying a weapon simply because they're armed?

And most whites are killed by white people. What the fark does that have to do with whether a governmental entity is acting in a grossly inappropriate manner?

 

[unofan]

You can't look at overall population size. The correct comparison is to the overall crime rate by race. According to the FBI

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...ables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf#disablemobile

29% of the total arrests in the USA are african americans. The stats in The Economist article show that 26% of the people killed by police are african american.

Racist cops arrest more black people, therefore proving they're not racist because black people are arrested more often...

 

[Rover]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I'm a bit surprised Minny doesn't do a better job on this issue, but I guess I shouldn't be. As I said before, its one thing if the entire region is a sh ithole. Its another thing entirely if you have pockets of poverty surrounded by wealth. That seems to me to be the low hanging fruit that you have the resources to improve.

Regarding gangs, again based on the experience in my own state the US Attorney got involved back in the 90's and whole gangs were taken off the streets and sent up on racketeering charges. Did a LOT of good in getting rid of the hundreds of trouble makers affecting the thousands that lived in one of the neighborhoods. A little bit easier case to make than finding a witness to testify to a murder.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I think I saw "petulant children" used to describe BLM earlier in the thread. Well, that too goes both ways.

 

[Rover]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

I'm not thrilled at some of the Black Lives Matter protest methods (blocking the interstate for example). However, their job as an organization is to advocate for a certain outcome. How is that any different than the zillion other groups doing the same thing? The NRA? The Sierra Club? Occupy Wall St? I don't see what the issue is for focusing your attention on a singular agenda item. Either we condemn everyone who does this, or we don't.

Besides, white people DO have their own advocacy group. Its called The Republican Party!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 3: Shoot low boys -- they're ridin' Shetland ponies!

Not anymore. Newark instituted the model program for recruiting police from the neighborhoods they patrol and incentified them to live in the community. The results were great -- not only did crime decrease but the number and intensity of negative police/civilian interactions cratered.

I know that was why I used them as the example. People think Newark when they hear stuff like that but they have cleaned it up.