Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

[unofan]

I'm not holding lenders blameless Scooby. What I'm saying is nobody is making you take part in their corruption. I got a mortgage during this time, and they qualified me for double what I wanted. I thanked them for their generosity but insisted upon the amount I could afford if we became a one income household.

Does that make me an object of worship? No, I used the common sense God gave the average domestic dog. People will try to con and sucker you in all ways in all walks of life. You need not take part. People are mostly to blame. If you don't understand the terms of your mortgage, DON'T SIGN THE PAPERWORK!

Joe Blow is responsible to the extent that he probably screwed over himself and the .000001% of the economy he represents. And yeah, take 1,000,000 Joe Blows and you then get an impact on an economy affecting scale.

But the banks are the professionals and experts in this transaction. Most people will sign a couple of mortgages in their lifetimes. That's called a busy morning for some brokers. They have the institutional knowledge. More importantly they have a much greater impact on the economy as individual entities. Joe Blow goes bankrupt, it's a sad day. Goldman Sachs goes bankrupt, and the world wide GDP drops by half a percent overnight.

The biggest crime is that nothing was done about those entities that are too big to fail. If an entity is so big that its continued operation is necessary for the health of the economy, it needs to be either broken up so that it's no longer too big to fail or nationalized so that it can't fail. I'd prefer the former, but either way would be better than the current setup.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Yeah, I didn't get sucked in either. If I had I'd be in a McMansion somewhere swimming in debt with no hopes of paying it off.

When my wife and I pre-approved for our first mortgage in 2003 we were approved for about $900k. We bought a house for $259k. I can well imagine many people take a loan for the full amount they have pre-approved for. That is insane -- it's committing yourself to debt slavery, even if nothing bad happens.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

When my wife and I pre-approved for our first mortgage in 2003 we were approved for about $900k. We bought a house for $259k. I can well imagine many people take a loan for the full amount they have pre-approved for. That is insane -- it's committing yourself to debt slavery, even if nothing bad happens.

But I deserve it. And the bank is my friend, I mean, look at all of they money they wanna give me.

 

[unofan]

When my wife and I pre-approved for our first mortgage in 2003 we were approved for about $900k. We bought a house for $259k. I can well imagine many people take a loan for the full amount they have pre-approved for. That is insane -- it's committing yourself to debt slavery, even if nothing bad happens.

We bought in 2011 at the bottom of the market. We bought at pretty much the max of our approval. But we also were two recent law grads with stable jobs whose salaries would only go up in the future and whose other debts (ie student loans) would only drop off over time - and our pre-approval amount wasn't exaggerated whatsoever (so maybe the banks did learn something).Yeah, it would've been bad had one of us suffered a debilitating accident or something immediately, but at this point just four years later we could pay the mortgage with a single salary if we had to. Wouldn't be comfortable, but it's doable.

All of which is a long way of saying, everyone needs to evaluate their circumstances themselves, there is no one size fits all answer.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

"With privilege comes responsibility." We have a number of New World Order folks, whether direct or co-erced monetarily, that are being intentionally irresponsible (sub-prime loans, 3.5% down mortgages, cannot price discriminate insurance for health reasons, etc.),

Oh yes, and the banksters have been above reproach. The 1%, the one's with the most privilege, have been the most irresponsible when gambling with other people's money. To the point of almost destroying the world economy.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Then why didn't the lenders just say "no" to the loans they knew were risky? I do it all the time when lending money. Sure, interest rates are salivating, but you don't get high rewards without high risks, and sometimes, the risks are too high to take.

Because they wanted those loans, to chop up and bundle and sell to some other poor sap and make even more money. That's why they had their mortgage houses out there giving loans to anybody and everybody. And why they were paying the ratings agencies to give those $hitty loan bundles triple A ratings.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Could also provide them with an out to get manslaughter as they could (and will) claim that it was an innocent oversight.


Oh yeah... it's gonna be a sh_t show.

Yeah, the five separate times the driver had to make sure there was a seatbelt on him.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

But the value of the house doesn't always go up. Sometimes the borrower realizes they didn't make a good investment and uses the put option of walking away and now the bank is on the hook for it. It's not always about the borrower not being able to pay.

Banks/mortgage lenders knew full well there was a housing bubble and that the exact scenario above would catch up to them eventually. They just didn't do anything about it and then cried bailout.

No, they were working from the premise that housing values were always going to increase. That's why they were so lax in their oversight, and sold people on loans that they couldn't afford. Can't pay your mortgage? Just sell your home for more than your loan is worth, and pay it off. Start over. That was the mentality at the time. Greenspan's "irrational exuberance".

And then the bottom fell out and all those MBS's they were peddling to the rubes became worthless. If ity were only people defaulting on their mortgages, the damage was limited; the bank repoes the property, re-sells when the value comes back up. But they'd packaged those loans into securities, sold them, and then also sold credit default swaps(CDS) a sort of insurance that would pay off if the MBS went south. Sold CDS's over and over on the same damm MBS's, until the insurance owed if they lost value was many times the value of the MBS( the total of the CDS market was something like $60 trillion). Once the MBS's became worthless, countless billions in CDS's had to be paid off, and the banksters didn't have that money on reserve. It was one huge domino effect.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Oh yes, and the banksters have been above reproach. The 1%, the one's with the most privilege, have been the most irresponsible when gambling with other people's money. To the point of almost destroying the world economy.

Whether they were the most irresponsible, or the government for guaranteeing money on a default, is irrelevant. The point is that eventually, the money multiplier will catch up, we're due for an even bigger crash, and at some point, the can cannot be kicked, effectively resulting in what happened in Iceland a few years ago.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Whether they were the most irresponsible, or the government for guaranteeing money on a default, is irrelevant. The point is that eventually, the money multiplier will catch up, we're due for an even bigger crash, and at some point, the can cannot be kicked, effectively resulting in what happened in Iceland a few years ago.

Heh, awesome.

And the rich will skate and the poor will foot the bill. Cause losses like these are always social programs.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Heh, awesome.

And the rich will skate and the poor will foot the bill.

Who, do you think, pays for NHL rinks?

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Heh, awesome.

And the rich will skate and the poor will foot the bill. Cause losses like these are always social programs.

Capitalize the profits, socialize the losses. Our new American business model. It's a win-win. For the banksters anyway.

 

[geezer]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Any of you guys read The Crash of 2016? My liberal friends online have been singing its praises. Any new info. in there?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Capitalize the profits, socialize the losses. Our new American business model. It's a win-win. For the banksters anyway.

Obviously, some want a mommy and daddy government that will spoil them rotten while punishing their siblings. REAL responsible.

Take some responsibility in your own lives. Pointing the finger and whining gets you nowhere.

 

[rufus]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Obviously, some want a mommy and daddy government that will spoil them rotten while punishing their siblings. REAL responsible.

Take some responsibility in your own lives. Pointing the finger and whining gets you nowhere.

Well since the only ones who got mommy and daddy government bailing them out when they f#&cked up was the banksters, I think your diatribe is a bit off target here. I'd love to lose billions, cripple the global economy, and have the government say, "here, here's all your money back, don't do that again".

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Well since the only ones who got mommy and daddy government bailing them out when they f#&cked up was the banksters, I think your diatribe is a bit off target here. I'd love to lose billions, cripple the global economy, and have the government say, "here, here's all your money back, don't do that again".

Not really. You see your sibling as the privileged one. What I see being called for by most of the groups with the same grievances as you is an effective role reversal, where you become the privileged sibling. It's just like how racism in this country was replaced with racism. Be careful what is being wished for, and remember that you can only truly control one person's financial status: Your own.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

All true, but I come back to it. Nobody forced people to take out these loans. Lets take a hypothetical situation....

Nuke L. Dragaugh goes down to the bank and asks for a loan. Nuke makes 50K a year, not a bad sum to be certain, but he's not liking his middle class neighborhood. He decided he wants to live in the Hamptons, and with no downpayment needs to loan 10M to make his dream happen.

Bank says, no problem Nuke, here's your money, under the guise that 1) they're going to package and sell the mortgage anyway, and 2) housing prices will continue to go up, and if Nuke can't pay loan owner will take house and sell it for a profit.

So, who's to blame when the economy goes south and Nuke can't pay his mortgage? The bank? The institution that bought the loan? The goverment? I say primary responsibility falls to Nuke, who's greed overruled his common sense. Nobody forced him to take out a loan he could not afford. This recession wouldn't have been nearly as severe if it was driven by banks or the government. The collective greed of the American people and the tool they used to fund lifestyles they couldn't afford (debt and borrowing on household equity) made this the worst crisis in 70+ years. That doesn't let banks and regulators off the hook, but you can offer loans at 100% compounding interest all day. There's no requirement for anybody to take one.

Nuke participated in 1 bad loan, so he is responsible for that bankruptcy and all the pain that comes with it - may he be infested with the fleas of 1000 camels and his arms too short to scratch. I don't feel sorry for him at all.

The banks, however, participated in millions of bad loans - they are responsible for cratering the overall economy. Just as Nuke didn't have to take his loan, the banks did not have to give it to him - or his closest million friends.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Capitalize the profits, socialize the losses. Our new American business model. It's a win-win. For the banksters anyway.

It's not that new. The colonists fought the British to take over the exploitation of the wealth of the colonies from British oligarchs. But when the war was over, the exploitation of that wealth belonged to American oligarchs, and many colonists didn't even get their back pay.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Whether they were the most irresponsible, or the government for guaranteeing money on a default, is irrelevant. The point is that eventually, the money multiplier will catch up, we're due for an even bigger crash, and at some point, the can cannot be kicked, effectively resulting in what happened in Iceland a few years ago.

Even if that should occur, I'd still rather be a billionaire who loses $900M than a guy with $100k who loses $90k.

But the billionaire isn't going to lose $900M. He's going to loot the public treasury, just like last time.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 2: Pay No Attention to the Rioters Behind the Curtain

Any of you guys read The Crash of 2016? My liberal friends online have been singing its praises. Any new info. in there?

This is a terrible admission of judging the book by its cover, but the instant I saw the author I lost all interest in reading it.