Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

[solovsfett]

It's taken as read inside the Beltway that the CIA had JFK murdered because he was about to seriously curtail their activities and have a full examination of covert action. The debate is over which faction(s) were directly involved and whether the other factions signed off on it or just covered up afterwards. The actual math is insanely complex and I am in no way an expert. But plenty of books have been written.

It was institutional self-defense. The CI establishment has done a lot of extraordinary things over the years. Some have been frankly amazing. Some have been borderline coup. And, once, it was an actual coup.

The Church Commission would perhaps have cut them back except for what happened subsequently in American history.

It's awful, but it's true. America lost its cherry in 1963. It's happened to every other empire, and it happened to us. Since then, we've just been making do and trying to minimize the damage.

Exactly. 1947 national security act creates CIA, immediately they go off the rails. 1948 rig elections in Italy where the communists were winning until CIA interference. 1953 overthrow Mohammed misadegh in Iran. 1954 overthrow Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala. Had bob maheu kidnap a college professor from Columbia university in 1955 iirc and dumped him in the Dominican Republic where he was murdered within a week. All because he wrote articles bashing the u.s. Friendly dictator there. 1959 assassinated Patrice Lumumba. Sent $ to the in oas to assist them in assassinating degaulle. Thankfully that didn't work.

And after JFK and RFK you have a situation where no-one on capital hill has the guts to reign them back in.

Also see Gary Webb's murder. Kill The Messenger is the book and movie.

Ugh

 

[solovsfett]

So what happens if it was a coup d'etat?

Hopefully congress and president move to disable the cia's operations both overt and covert. Turn them into an intelligence agency only or disband/defund and let DIA and NSA take over international intelligence duties.

Harry Truman wrote an op-ed in the Washington post dec 9,1963. "Limit CIA role to intelligence"...reading between the lines he knew what happened in Dallas emanated from a few folks at Langley. Nov 22-24, former director Allen Dulles was at The Farm...assuredly monitoring the progress of the most audacious operation he'd ever conveived

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

I think you guys are borderline insane

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

church cmte already decreed the cia couldn't assassinate any more us presidents. all set here.

 

[solovsfett]

I think you guys are borderline insane

I think you're ignorant. You should read what congressional investigators have found. Why do you think so much of the Church Commite and HSCA closed door sessions are still hidden from the public 40+ years on? It isn't because they were talking about their crossword prowess.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist. Absence of information is evidence of your theory.

 

[solovsfett]

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist. Absence of information is evidence of your theory.

No, I've read what HAS been released and I've listened to the investigators and read Gaeton Fonzi's book. No need for theories when the truth hits hard with the available facts.

Maybe you could start by listening to them talk about their findings?
https://youtu.be/OmRhdOvzyQQ

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Oh, good. Another Alex Jones peddling theories to sell books.

 

[solovsfett]

Oh, good. Another Alex Jones peddling theories to sell books.

No. Gaeton Fonzi was an investigator for both the Church Committee, House Select Committee on Assassinations, 60 minutes, NBC nightly news, Inside Edition and more. If you want to remain ignorant on JFK that's fine but at least understand the difference between a venerable investigator and a lunatic like jones.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

I think you guys are borderline insane

I can understand that. And I think 9/11 Truthers are completely insane.

But JFK involved so much weird, awful stuff, and our intelligence establishment during the 1960s was so wildcat, I believe Occam's Razor dictates my conclusion.

There is plenty of room for doubt and I don't in any way say people who think the Warren Report was legitimate are hopelessly naive. It could have happened the way they wrote it up. But I believe this was a de facto core of power inside the de jure mechanisms of power, that it was planned, and that it was gotten away with because after the fact it was seen as far too disruptive to ever admit we could be compromised that badly. Political legitimacy would have dropped to zero and real violence might have broken out. TPTB viewed the Cold War as an existential crisis and refused to risk the paralysis of the government at that moment.

But that is opinion, not settled fact. All I can say is that opinion is surprisingly widespread.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

The same intelligence establishment that completely botched the Bay of Pigs a couple of years prior?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

The same intelligence establishment that completely botched the Bay of Pigs a couple of years prior?

I think the point is, no, not the same establishment. A much smaller, tighter knit, on-task group with a much simpler target.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

I think the point is, no, not the same establishment. A much smaller, tighter knit, on-task group with a much simpler target.

Except it is. It's the same CIA that completely botched the Bay of Pigs and was completely infiltrated by the KGB for years.

 

[solovsfett]

Except it is. It's the same CIA that completely botched the Bay of Pigs and was completely infiltrated by the KGB for years.

Please provide articles or evidence of KGB infiltration of the CIA. James Angleton, head of counter intelligence went on a 15-year mole hunt and found nothing. He tarnished the reputation of the CIA in the process ( like they needed help).

In regard to bay of pigs, again, have you read the facts? Did you know Richard Bissell moved the invasion site to that swampy area to try and force air cover? Did you know Allen Dulles was nowhere to be found when this happened in April 61? Did you know the CIA's best and brightest were in fact NOT involved with this operation for the most part? Where was Dulles, helms, Angleton, Fitzgerald at al? Did you know the CIA did NOT seek advise from the military prior to the invasion?
they absolutely counted on JFK to call up a military response because they lied to him and underestimated his resolve not to provide air strikes or cover.
And so it failed. That was strike 2 against JFK. Strike 1 being his congressional speech deriding Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers foreign policy re indochina. He had at least 2-3 more strikes before Dulles acted.

 

[joecct]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Document drop tomorrow. Should I buy tinfoil stock??

 

[Kepler]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Document drop tomorrow. Should I buy tinfoil stock??

Don't bother. It's all been scrubbed for decades.

 

[SJHovey]

Don't bother. It's all been scrubbed for decades.

The simple beauty of conspiracy theories. The absence of evidence proves the theory.

 

[solovsfett]

The simple beauty of conspiracy theories. The absence of evidence proves the theory.

Read the last investigation by Gaeton Fonzi, a congressional investigator and an investigator for 60 minutes, NBC nightly news and more. That's the best launching point to discover the Company was behind this murder. And Fonzi was put on this trail by Republican Senator Richard Schweiker who asked Fonzi to undertake a separate JFK investigation of the Cubans, Oswald, CIA and Mafia after he'd seen what Fonzi brought to him during the Church Committee hearings.

If you aren't aware of the FACTS you can't claim a moral high ground.

the FACTS are out there and I do feel passionately about this case based on those facts. Sworn statements from witnesses, doctor testimony, FBI affidavit of receipt of a bullet in bethesda (meaning at least a 4th shot), dictabelt recording, Muchmore and Nix film showing the car clearly braking as it approached the fence as witnesses said it did. DeGaulle and Castro statements that it was U.S. intelligence. Jackie and Bobby sending a letter to Kruschev a week after 11-22 stating the same exact thing.

Harry Truman's op-ed in the Washington Post, etc.

Warren Commission FACTS - 121 witnesses were asked the origin of the shots: 32 said book building, 38 said "I don't know", 51 said out front by the fence or overpass.

more important: 20 cops were asked the same question: 1 cop said shots originated from the book building, 3 said "I don't know" or can't determine and 16 or 80% of the cops asked said either behind the fence or by the overpass. That's a fact you cannot deny as it's in the WC (the bible for oswald did it folks) therefore you cannot claim it's a "theory"

Here are two of Bob Blakey's investigators speaking in 2014 about the HSCA findings and CIA obstruction, perjury by CIA officers and more - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmRhdOvzyQQ

and food for thought if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, a secret serviceman called of the presidential limo @ Love Field in Dallas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xEK16kLHsM

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

The simple beauty of conspiracy theories. The absence of evidence proves the theory.

It’s not worth it. I already barked up that tree.

Solo has a religious fervor taken to evangelical level and Kepler, well, that one doesn’t make sense to me at all.

 

[solovsfett]

It’s not worth it. I already barked up that tree.

Solo has a religious fervor taken to evangelical level and Kepler, well, that one doesn’t make sense to me at all.

You refuse to read or listen to congressional investigators...tough to learn that way.