College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Well, now that's not quite an apples to apples comparison, as ND still gets some money from the Big East for hoops on TV, and that shared BT revenue also contains the Big Ten's bowl earnings. However, that $22 million number apparently only includes the guaranteed payouts from the BTN to the schools, not any of the raw profits on top of that. So it could be more.

Point being, ND's TV deal isn't above anyone.

As far as negotiating a better deal, they run into problems of scale. The fact that the Big Ten (or any conference, really) can offer a whole slate of games makes it far easier to leverage those kinds of deals, and allows them to have the best of both worlds (network exposure on ABC and CBS, cable revenue on ESPN and BTN). Notre Dame is only selling one game a week, hard for them to do that - they can't take advantage of the economies of scale there.

This also shows why NBC would be interested in the Pac-10 - packaging network TV on the Peacock with cable TV on Versus, perhaps?

Let's not forget that the $22 million is only going to go up with the addition of another team. It's part of the 11+1=13 mentality that FranktheTank introduced.

 

[blockski]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I was just quoting the article you cited on the #3 thing.

Certainly ND gets revenue from basketball, etc. But if football brings in $9 million to ND, I doubt they make enough elsewhere to catch up to Purdue or Indiana.

Oh, no doubt about that. I was just clarifying those figures.

 

[French Rage]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

An interesting aspect of the Pac is its current five distinct pairs of teams, which helps for travel, rivalries, etc. I really don't know how important it is to the Pac to have two new teams forming some sort of logical pairing like all the current teams do.

I knows what I likes, and I likes me the riavlry pairs!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Notre Dame to the Big Ten? Here we go again.

Last time around I was really excited about the possibility. My understanding is that the ND administrators were more or less ready to pull the trigger on the deal, but were reined in by an overwhelming grass roots revolt. That was only a few years ago. Is there any reason to believe that the politics of the situation have changed?

My take? ND's decision not to join should be respected and accepted as final. For our people to approach ND yet again strikes me as both useless and demeaning.

Expansion of the BT could be both interesting and beneficial. But let's talk to schools that might actually be interested in joining. Pitt and Mizzou would both have their merits. There are obviously other "fish in the ocean."

The one thing that would change my mind is if ND actually applied for membership. Now I wouldn't be just surprised by such an application, I'd be stunned. But sure, if hades actually does freeze over, move the application to the front of the line and give it every chance to succeed...

So you're saying there's a chance?

 

[bronconick]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Notre Dame to the Big Ten? Here we go again.

Last time around I was really excited about the possibility. My understanding is that the ND administrators were more or less ready to pull the trigger on the deal, but were reined in by an overwhelming grass roots revolt. That was only a few years ago. Is there any reason to believe that the politics of the situation have changed?

My take? ND's decision not to join should be respected and accepted as final. For our people to approach ND yet again strikes me as both useless and demeaning.

Expansion of the BT could be both interesting and beneficial. But let's talk to schools that might actually be interested in joining. Pitt and Mizzou would both have their merits. There are obviously other "fish in the ocean."

The one thing that would change my mind is if ND actually applied for membership. Now I wouldn't be just surprised by such an application, I'd be stunned. But sure, if hades actually does freeze over, move the application to the front of the line and give it every chance to succeed...

So you're saying there's a chance?

I'd half expect the Big 10 to close in on a deal with say, Missouri and then call South Bend and say "Last chance......it's either now or enjoy the Big East eventually."

 

[blockski]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Notre Dame to the Big Ten? Here we go again.

Last time around I was really excited about the possibility. My understanding is that the ND administrators were more or less ready to pull the trigger on the deal, but were reined in by an overwhelming grass roots revolt. That was only a few years ago. Is there any reason to believe that the politics of the situation have changed?

My take? ND's decision not to join should be respected and accepted as final. For our people to approach ND yet again strikes me as both useless and demeaning.

Expansion of the BT could be both interesting and beneficial. But let's talk to schools that might actually be interested in joining. Pitt and Mizzou would both have their merits. There are obviously other "fish in the ocean."

The one thing that would change my mind is if ND actually applied for membership. Now I wouldn't be just surprised by such an application, I'd be stunned. But sure, if hades actually does freeze over, move the application to the front of the line and give it every chance to succeed...

So you're saying there's a chance?

See, I don't think there are that many fish in the sea for the Big Ten. There are two teams that make sense in the financial world - Texas and Notre Dame. Everyone else is a maybe - treading water at best. That includes Mizzou, Pitt, Nebraska, etc.

Again, given that each school gets $22 million annually from the conference, any new school has to add at least that much in value, or else they're bringing down everyone's share by splitting things 12 ways instead of 11. The only two automatic schools to add that value are UT and ND.

The others - eh, maybe, but it's no slam dunk. Mizzou adds St. Louis and part of KC, but no real national profile. Pitt is a great fit all around, except that it adds no new territory at all and likely not much of a ratings bump (given Penn State's wide-ranging popularity in the state and on the east coast). Nebraska has a rabid fanbase, but Omaha isn't exactly a prime market, nor is their basketball team anything remarkable. Rutgers offers up a piece of NYC, but their history is terrible and gaining a toe-hold into New York is not a lock - as noted above, Notre Dame probably offers a better entry point into New York than Rutgers or Syracuse does.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I agree that neither Pitt or Missouri is what you'd call mouth-watering for the Big Ten. Certainly not like adding Penn State was (which was an interesting move by itself, as it's odd to have an odd number of teams). I wonder if what might drive adding Pitt or Mizzou might be if the Big Ten honchos decide they want a conference title game, like SEC, B12, etc.

Somehow it seems Notre Dame still ought to be able to leverage their status into a better deal as an independent. Yah, they're only one team, so don't have the big package like the SEC deal with ESPN or the B10 channel, but they also don't split things 11 or 12 ways, so it seems like they could find a way to get more revenue for their national drawing power. I don't like ND, but they are still one of the programs that grabs the most attention nationally and it seems like they just have to figure out how to cash in on that fully.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

See, I don't think there are that many fish in the sea for the Big Ten. There are two teams that make sense in the financial world - Texas and Notre Dame. Everyone else is a maybe - treading water at best. That includes Mizzou, Pitt, Nebraska, etc.

Again, given that each school gets $22 million annually from the conference, any new school has to add at least that much in value, or else they're bringing down everyone's share by splitting things 12 ways instead of 11. The only two automatic schools to add that value are UT and ND.

Yes and no. Don't forget that this will bring a conference championship game. a cash cow in and of itself.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I'd half expect the Big 10 to close in on a deal with say, Missouri and then call South Bend and say "Last chance......it's either now or enjoy the Big East eventually."

Well, never say never.

But I honestly hope it doesn't go down that way. For one thing, Missouri (or whoever the lead candidate winds up being) deserves more respect than that. For another, I truly believe that the call to reopen negotiations -- if any -- should come from ND. Just one poster's humble opinion.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Well, never say never.

But I honestly hope it doesn't go down that way. For one thing, Missouri (or whoever the lead candidate winds up being) deserves more respect than that. For another, I truly believe that the call to reopen negotiations -- if any -- should come from ND. Just one poster's humble opinion.

If notre dame has any intelligence behind the scenes, they would be kicking down James Delany's door and begging for the extra $13+ million and access to the CIC.

 

[blockski]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Yes and no. Don't forget that this will bring a conference championship game. a cash cow in and of itself.

Not really. The SEC's championship game rakes in about $15 million in revenue, which is still short of that magic $22 million dollar figure. And that's not even counting the costs of putting on said game. The ACC's game has been a huge flop, barely covering costs and having some embarrassing crowds.

I could easily see the Big Ten add a 12th team and then go to a 9 game conference schedule instead and use that as leverage to get more TV money instead. I don't think a championship game is a given (nor do I think a Big Ten game would flop like the ACC's has).

I agree that neither Pitt or Missouri is what you'd call mouth-watering for the Big Ten. Certainly not like adding Penn State was (which was an interesting move by itself, as it's odd to have an odd number of teams). I wonder if what might drive adding Pitt or Mizzou might be if the Big Ten honchos decide they want a conference title game, like SEC, B12, etc.

Somehow it seems Notre Dame still ought to be able to leverage their status into a better deal as an independent. Yah, they're only one team, so don't have the big package like the SEC deal with ESPN or the B10 channel, but they also don't split things 11 or 12 ways, so it seems like they could find a way to get more revenue for their national drawing power. I don't like ND, but they are still one of the programs that grabs the most attention nationally and it seems like they just have to figure out how to cash in on that fully.

I just don't see what's in it for the Network to offer them more money, because they can't offer them any more games to televise.

Well, never say never.

But I honestly hope it doesn't go down that way. For one thing, Missouri (or whoever the lead candidate winds up being) deserves more respect than that. For another, I truly believe that the call to reopen negotiations -- if any -- should come from ND. Just one poster's humble opinion.

I'm not sure what your point is. ND isn't going to accept an offer unless they want to. What difference does it make?

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

See, I don't think there are that many fish in the sea for the Big Ten. There are two teams that make sense in the financial world - Texas and Notre Dame. Everyone else is a maybe - treading water at best. That includes Mizzou, Pitt, Nebraska, etc.

From a purely $$ point of view, I wouldn't really disagree with that. My point is different. I'm saying that Notre Dame isn't biting, I don't expect that to change, and we shouldn't be groveling.

I do think that either Mizzou or Pitt would be a nice 12th member. The reasons to go that route would be to get back to an even number of teams, and to satisfy the conditions for having a conference championship football game. But those schools, in and of themselves, are not a financial bonanza.

I'm going to put some words in your month that I'm confident you agree with. You're saying that it's economically irrational on both sides for the Big Ten and Notre Dame not to join forces. I'm inclined to agree with that. But your objection needs to be directed to the Golden Domers who axed the last deal, not the Big Ten.

 

[blockski]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

From a purely $$ point of view, I wouldn't really disagree with that. My point is different. I'm saying that Notre Dame isn't biting, I don't expect that to change, and we shouldn't be groveling.

I do think that either Mizzou or Pitt would be a nice 12th member. The reasons to go that route would be to get back to an even number of teams, and to satisfy the conditions for having a conference championship football game. But those schools, in and of themselves, are not a financial bonanza.

I'm going to put some words in your month that I'm confident you agree with. You're saying that it's economically irrational on both sides for the Big Ten and Notre Dame not to join forces. I'm inclined to agree with that. But your objection needs to be directed to the Golden Domers who axed the last deal, not the Big Ten.

I'm not objecting to anything, just laying out the facts. Nor do I see the Big Ten as grovelling. And yes, I think ND would be stupid and irrational to turn the invitation down, and I also fully expect them to do so.

At the same time, I have no problem with the Big Ten drowning its sorrows of rejection in a swimming pool filled with money.

The Big Ten can present a package that would be mutually beneficial to ND and the BT - and if ND says no, it will hurt them a lot more than it hurts us. I don't see how having high standards for a 12th member is grovelling.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I'm not sure what your point is. ND isn't going to accept an offer unless they want to. What difference does it make?

I may have already answered your question in my last post, but just in case:

My fallable opinion is that pursuing Notre Dame is simply a waste of time and energy on all sides. If they want to prove me wrong by taking the initiative, good for them. But we've been recently turned down -- firmly turned down -- for non-economic reasons. You can lead the horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I may have already answered your question in my last post, but just in case:

My fallable opinion is that pursuing Notre Dame is simply a waste of time and energy on all sides. If they want to prove me wrong by taking the initiative, good for them. But we've been recently turned down -- firmly turned down -- for non-economic reasons. You can lead the horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.

Except the playing field has completely changed since they were last rejected. Back then Notre Dame made more money than the big ten members did with their tv deal IIRC. You can't compare the two.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I'm not objecting to anything, just laying out the facts. Nor do I see the Big Ten as grovelling. And yes, I think ND would be stupid and irrational to turn the invitation down, and I also fully expect them to do so.

As Thin Lizzy might put it: If that chick doesn't want to go, forget her.

I prefer to take the high road and say: If Our Lady doesn't wish to participate, respect her choice and move on.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

What are you talking about? They have their own network deal. That they don't share with anyone.

Our own network deal (plus the basketball money from the Big East) is short of what the Integer rakes in.

However, we're still not exactly hurting for revenue, and you'd have to think that we would be in a better negotiating position if Kelly can get the team back in the BCS.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Also... I think competitively, ND is better off as an independent, with an independent identity, than becoming just another midwest university in the Integer. The biggest issue we face going forward is the tightening of non-conference schedules over the last few years, which is making it more and more difficult to put a compelling schedule together over the last month of the season in the years where we don't close at USC.

Realistically, in terms of institutional character, we don't fit in the Integer. The only school remotely like us (medium-sized and private) is Northwestern, and they're not consistently competitive in football and completely uncompetitive in basketball. Do we really want to turn into another Northwestern?

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

Turn into?

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: College Football 2009: Where Championships are won by a majority vote

I'd half expect the Big 10 to close in on a deal with say, Missouri and then call South Bend and say "Last chance......it's either now or enjoy the Big East eventually."

Pretty much that. ND doesn't jump for the Big Ten, I could easily see a situation happening where the Big East Football schools get together and Demand Norte Dame to join the league or they'll force em out of the league. Norte Dame isn't going to be getting the kind of money they got from Big East Basketball by playing in the MAC.