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Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

MARMOT...eagerly awaiting expected additional thoughts...we're going into the "quiet season" for Colgate hockey - again, sooner than I would like - but continue to follow progress of our incoming recruits...recent signee for 2019-2020 looks interesting (Arnaud Vachon of Brooks Bandits)...grasping at straws here and will remain depressed until another NCAA champ is crowned...I'm 66 and sand is running through the hour glass...
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Well, it's taken me a bit of time to try to process what transpired this past season. I'm afraid the year I graduated (1991) may have given me unreasonable expectations for what the Colgate program should be. I see Starr Rink full and National Championships a legitimate possibility. Obviously, this year was the antithesis of those halcyon seasons.

But how bad was it, exactly? Well, for one thing, we had the lowest number of wins since the '77-'78 season. To give an idea how long ago that was, it was Terry Slater's first season. So, I think terming this year as epically bad is not at all hyperbole.

Of course, the realization that this year was terrible isn't exactly breaking news. So, the question is this: why was this team so poor?

Well, unlike last year's team which I believe greatly underperformed (notwithstanding the defections of Baun and Johnston, that team was rather loaded) I feel like this year's team played to about expectation. I mean, Kulevich was quite good and Corkey solid. Finn (and when he played, Point) was very often excellent. But what about our forwards? I don't think we have one forward who would be a top 2 line player for any of the better teams in the conference. Seriously, not one. I mean, Harrison had a good year and our frosh triumvirate (McMann, Cockrell and Snodgrass) has the potential to be good. But sakes alive, look at the production from this year's junior and sophomore classes. GreenCoat's been saying it all year: the talent simply isn't there.

And I've been following our incoming classes pretty carefully over the course of the season and am not brimming with optimism. As I've mentioned before, the two incoming freshmen defensemen look like good puck movers as they are both pretty high in their respective leagues' defensemen scoring (particularly our BCHL commit). Further research gives me some hope for McEachney who is 11th in the AJHL in scoring. And his teammate Vachon who just committed to Colgate is among the AJHL's top five in PPG. But frankly, I don't see any Austin Smith or Spink twins type talents. At least based on their numbers in juniors.

So, what does this all mean? Unless the aforementioned frosh triumvirate markedly improve as sophomores and we hit some home runs in the incoming class I really think we're going to be hard pressed to improve on our bottom four finish next season. And keep in mind that we're losing far and away our best two defensemen. And in Harrison, our leading goal scorer.

Where does this leave the program? Well, I think there is (or should be anyway) a tremendous amount of pressure on Coach Vaughan this upcoming season. Despite the fact I think he's a good coach a third consecutive terrible season cannot possibly be acceptable. Especially in light of all the resources poured into the new rink. And unfortunately I think he's going to be coaching for his job with a roster that's not going to make it easy.

I certainly would like to be proven wrong, but recent history doesn't give me a tremendous amount of hope.

What I did find interesting is that the first people this season to allude to a coaching change on our board were (I think) a Yale guy and a Clarkson guy. And if you look at the situation at Yale with Tim Taylor I find it not dissimilar to the situation with Coach Vaughan at Colgate: good coaches who had been at their respective institutions for decades with sporadic success and who are great teachers of young men. But at a certain point you have to look at the reality of the overall records and ask the question:

Is this good enough?

And I'm not sure if this is where techtodenver (the Clarkson guy) was going but I can think of a very specific alum to revitalize the program. One with tons of cachet.

But I'm not there yet. I really want Coach Vaughan to right the ship. Let's hope my dire prognostications are wrong and he does just that . . . .
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Looking for the following contestants. just a friendly reminder that you have until Friday night at 7PM to get your picks into the ECAC Pick the Playoffs 2017.

Contestant
BIG Green
Brett Gobe
cudmud
goldenbriggsy
Halloweenman
johnk
Mike Hutter
NorthernLite
Rjm7272
SLU'75
sshablak
still an empty net
Turk
Vaportrail
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

not to build you up too much Marmot, but your comments are spot on...you reflect my concerns that really started back in the 2006-2007 season (ironically since that time DV's coaching record is c. 50 games below .500)...and I very much hope he can right the ship after two quite subpar years. I don't think we committed $38M to a new arena simply to have it featured in Architectural Digest...we did improve defensively as the year went on, egregious defensive zone mistakes were definitely reduced, and the kids seem to buy into their responsibilities on defense. What concerns me is the feeling that we're simply not talented enough to do what DV wants: to be very dangerous in transition. And I don't see any real upgrade in offensive talent coming in next year. I really, really hope I'm wrong. And yes, the comparisons to Tim Taylor, a great guy and a good coach for many years, are somewhat scary...I know recruiting is really really hard these days, but our school and our new arena should be positives (continued sub .500 seasons is not)...
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Waiting on Shabby to critique the season and give his perspective. He always has good, logical thoughts. Don't anyone get too mired in negatives until our Leader posts :)
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Well, here's a positive.

Colton Point was one of the most sought after goalie recruits of this season.

And he came to Colgate.

So, not only is it possible to get top-notch recruits to come to Colgate but it's possible to do it now with this coaching staff.

Question is: how do we get more Colton Point type recruits and fewer fifth line type recruits?
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Does anyone think Andy McDonald can make the jump from his current head coaching job to 'gate? or would he even want to?
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

I would say that is where I was going, I respect DV but sometimes young blood needs to be brought in and Colgate has some pretty prestigious alums. I don't want to to repeat myself but Clarkson is heading towards its 2007-2008 form, hopefully with more consistency, there is potential that Vigneault leaves early for us but will be replaced by Nick Campoli who should end up being drafted this summer and has major upside, he was hurt a lot of the year but had a great close to the year with North York in the OJHL, he will be a true freshman but is physically ready for D1, with Jack Jacome (OJHL regular season points leader, 2018 recruit, potential OHL flight risk), Josh Dickinson (Top 10 in OJHL regular season points, plays on a line with Jacome in Georgetown), Chris Klack (Having a nice season with the Penticton Vees of the BCHL, is from Georgetown, ON), Carson Pearce (Big athletic tough to play against Dman that plays with Dickinson and Jacome, future recruit for 18' or 19') we have recruited the area well so I will be interested to see if SLU with Morris, potentially RPI with their new coach, potentially Colgate, disrupts the momentum swing Clarkson has right now in that league/area, Princeton is also trying to dip into the OJHL a lot as well and have secured a few top kids from the league.

Clarkson also added Josh Hauge to our staff to increase our USHL recruiting production, he added Jake Kielly from Tri-City (Current goalie and should only get better), Haralds Egle (Late add in the process, should be a 100 point guy at Tech), Shane Kuzmeski (Great skater, ended up impressing in practice so he's ended up being a mainstay in our lineup down the stretch), Jere Astren (Former Wisconsin commit, had a good year in Fargo last year but wasn't eligible this year, should play from day one next year), Kuzmeski played in the NAHL but the other 3 were all USHL talents and that league prepares you for D1 hockey the best, the pace is quite similar just things are a lot more organized come college time. Clarkson has never really excelled in recruiting the USHL but if you add Nico Sturm to the list that Andy Jones (former assistant) got to commit then Clarkson has 3 potentially 4 instant impact recruits from that league and things are looking up.

Hauge has also worked on getting Kevin Charyszyn who is a late bloomer but is one of the top goal scorers in the USHL this season on a top tier Waterloo team. Clarkson struggled under Jones to bring in just an average goalie so having Kielly now and then Ryan Bischel who is committed for 18' or 19', he has a bright future in the USHL and next year he should find a starting spot somewhere in that league. Phil Roy has done a great job with recruiting quality Dmen over the years and he continued with Connor McCarthy who has major upside, he's a former Denver commit and flipped to Clarkson for next season, he's 6'6 and is quite mobile and skilled, his frame will need to fill out but he should see ice time next season. Roy also got Cameron Ginnetti who is almost at a assist per game as a D for Langley in the BCHL, he is smaller at 5'11 but can move pucks and sees the ice well, he's a 98' but we are pushing him up and he could instantly see PP time next year.
 
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Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

reading TechtoDenver's informative analysis of the strides that Clarkson is making to return to its long history of success on the ice...great for Clarkson (and well deserved), kind of depressing if you're in Hamilton, NY...from the very top on down I simply don't see a total commitment at Colgate to reverse a trend that is over a decade in length...Austin was simply great, McIntire was as well, and the Class of 2016 was one of a kind...Goulakos was very good and an inspirational leader in many ways...bottom line: we need more of this talent if we're going to be competitive for the top four spots on a semi-consistent basis...
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

GreenCoat, here's the million dollar question:

Do you think the current coaching staff has the ability to bring in such top shelf talent on a continual basis?
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Speaking of ability to bring in top shelf talent, anybody notice which direction Princeton is headed? Seven of top eight leading scorers this year are freshmen or sophomores. The eighth is a junior.
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

That certainly is a troubling trend (not for Princeton obviously but for us).

Especially frustrating in light of the fact their coaching staff is full of 'Gate guys.
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

in a half-assed answer to your question (above)...I'm beginning to seriously wonder...waiting another year or two is not the optimal answer, but wait we will...no question though, we HAVE to raise our game...
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

I don't know about the rest of you but I saw some good things from mcmann and snodgrass. I think they will be better players than you think, but as far as the season goes, 2 seasons without gettring out of the first weekend is not good.

And I can't believe we were literally a second away from playing this weekend, seems unreal. We had chances in the third game but when they took the lead you knew it was going to be an uphill battle
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Kyle just got booted at Northern Michigan - with a record over .500...don't know if there were other circumstances behind the decision...
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

TheGreenCoat said:
reading TechtoDenver's informative analysis of the strides that Clarkson is making to return to its long history of success on the ice...great for Clarkson (and well deserved), kind of depressing if you're in Hamilton, NY...from the very top on down I simply don't see a total commitment at Colgate to reverse a trend that is over a decade in length...Austin was simply great, McIntire was as well, and the Class of 2016 was one of a kind...Goulakos was very good and an inspirational leader in many ways...bottom line: we need more of this talent if we're going to be competitive for the top four spots on a semi-consistent basis...
Click to expand...

I was just sharing on how Clarkson has done it, in the first 4-5 years of CJ he had his fair share of issues and recruiting was a mess, especially between the pipes (look at all the upperclassmen who barley played as juniors and seniors). Andy Jones is a great guy but he wasn't making the impact needed as he was suppossed to bringing in any USHL guy and he wasn't successful, Andy moved onto UMass-Lowell and Clarkson got an early Christmas present in Josh Hauge. Josh was not the best player during his time but is a world class human being and has established life long friendships over his time in hockey and that has pushed him into the coach/recruiter he is today, he has a great hockey mind and hopefully over time he has the chance to become a head coach.
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

Red, I absolutely agree with you that I saw some good things from McMann and Snodgrass. I would put Cockrell and Dauda in that group too. When I mentioned how we had no players who would be top 2 line players for any of the better teams in the league I meant none of our players as they played this year would be regarded that way. Certainly those four have the potential to be very good players. But they have a lot of work to do. Realistically, for us to get better, they all need to double their point production. Frankly, as McMann was the MVP last year in the AJHL, I expected quite a bit more from him.

But here's the sobering thought: even if all four of those players elevate their games that gives us four potential top 2 line forwards. I don't see our rising junior and senior classes magically getting better over the summer. So, that leaves the incoming frosh. Obviously we have no idea how they will pan out but on paper they look OK at best.
 
Re: Colgate 2016-17 A New Beginning

And back to my question about this coaching staff being able to consistently recruit top notch talent, I will concur with GreenCoat that I'm seriously starting to wonder.

Did some more number crunching,

Coach Vaughan enjoyed six straight winning seasons with the last being '99-'00.

In the last 16 years?

Five winning seasons.
Nine losing seasons.
Two .500 seasons.
 
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