What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

joecct said:
If she broke the law, she should be punished. By your standards, just because Teddy drowned Mary Jo and got away with it, that means that any other person can be excused for the same behavior.
Click to expand...

If she broke the law, she needs to be treated the same as Powell and Rice. Too many Republicans want different standards for themselves than for everybody else. Case in point, why hasn't David Petraeus been asked to testify in public for 11 hours over Benghazi, when it was the CIA annex and safe house that was the target of the attacks and he was CIA director? Can't have it both ways joe.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Who's excusing whom? If Powell broke the law, he can have the cell next to Hillary, though that proximity may amount to C&U punishment...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Who here has actually had a clearance and dealt with classified information be it of whatever level (Confidential, Secret) or type (National Security Information, Restricted Data)? Please note: My hand is in the air.

DISCLAIMER: The rules may have been changed since my time in the system (20+ years ago already); however, I was trained as follows.

Regarding classified material going to someone's email:

I can't stop someone from sending whatever to my email inbox. The sender is responsible to know where they are putting/sending/storing the classified data. They should know the system they are going to. If they put classified in an unsecured receptacle they, the sender, are in violation.

Now, if you receive it, realize it's classified, and forward it on, you are in violation.

If you generate (that just says generate, short of send) classified on an unsecured system, you're in violation.


If Powell or Rice's people were the unlucky recipients of emails of fools (criminals) they're fine as long as they didn't pass it along (and reported what happened).
 
Rover said:
If she broke the law, she needs to be treated the same as Powell and Rice. Too many Republicans want different standards for themselves than for everybody else. Case in point, why hasn't David Petraeus been asked to testify in public for 11 hours over Benghazi, when it was the CIA annex and safe house that was the target of the attacks and he was CIA director? Can't have it both ways joe.
Click to expand...

How is it "if" she broke the law if she had top secret emails on her own server?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

The Sicatoka said:
Who here has actually had a clearance and dealt with classified information be it of whatever level (Confidential, Secret) or type (National Security Information, Restricted Data)? Please note: My hand is in the air.

DISCLAIMER: The rules may have been changed since my time in the system (20+ years ago already); however, I was trained as follows.

Regarding classified material going to someone's email:

I can't stop someone from sending whatever to my email inbox. The sender is responsible to know where they are putting/sending/storing the classified data. They should know the system they are going to. If they put classified in an unsecured receptacle they, the sender, are in violation.

Now, if you receive it, realize it's classified, and forward it on, you are in violation.

If you generate (that just says generate, short of send) classified on an unsecured system, you're in violation.


If Powell or Rice's people were the unlucky recipients of emails of fools (criminals) they're fine as long as they didn't pass it along (and reported what happened).
Click to expand...

The rules are the same. The creator/sender is responsible for the content. If you receive sensitive or classified information it's a data spill -- you aren't in trouble unless you don't report it. If you send it, you're in trouble*. If you don't report it and cover your tracks, you're really in trouble.

* My impression is blue (i.e., USG) personnel constantly violate these rules, although they obviously shouldn't, and senior/political blues do so throughout the government with impunity. Everyone who has worked in a classified environment, whether or not compartmentalized, can tell a dozen stories. If you're a contractor you get fired because your company needs to protect itself; if you're USG you walk with some mandatory training; if you're senior USG nothing happens. Nobody sees jail time unless they're literally sending information to a foreign intelligence service.

This is political (obviously). It's not a witch hunt because that implies tagging someone with a false charge and it appears Hillary and/or her IT people are guilty of really moronic misconduct. But it isn't nefarious -- it isn't even shady -- at her level it's a slap on the wrist, it has nothing to do with protecting our national defense or agents' lives, and if she wasn't running for office nobody would do squat.
 
Last edited:
walrus said:
How is it "if" she broke the law if she had top secret emails on her own server?
Click to expand...

Did she know they were top secret? Were they marked as such at the time?

Put another way, if a white house intern who hasn't had his morning coffee yet mistakenly sends the nuclear launch codes to me, how have I committed a crime or otherwise done anything illegal?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

unofan said:
Did she know they were top secret? Were they marked as such at the time?

Put another way, if a white house intern who hasn't had his morning coffee yet mistakenly sends the nuclear launch codes to me, how have I committed a crime or otherwise done anything illegal?
Click to expand...

You haven't done anything wrong at all if you haven't looked at it.

Here's when you do things wrong:

(1) You look at the page and it's got classification markings on it and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(2) You look at the page and it's not got classification markings on it but as you start to read it you figure out it should be classified and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(3) You haven't looked at the page but the intern calls you back and tells you what she's done, and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(4) You haven't looked at it but you retransmit it by some open means, or even on a properly classified system but to a person without the right clearances. (This one sucks, but you should read everything you're going to send in that type of environment because if you send it you bought it).

I think you see a pattern here. If you're the recipient you're OK until you should have known. At that point you're still OK if you report appropriately. If you don't report, you're in trouble. If you destroy evidence you're in a metric ton sh-tload of trouble.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
You could throw in a quote of Jane Adams*, but not bad for a beginner! :)

But to be fair, the people calling you a limousine liberal are wrong. You're not a liberal. You're a centrist with no choice but to vote Democratic because the Republicans have taken up residence in Berchtesgaden. And as such we welcome you with open arms.

* "The good we secure for ourselves is precarious and uncertain until it is secured for all of us and incorporated into our common life."
Click to expand...

You are correct...I definitely gave him too much credit ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
You haven't done anything wrong at all if you haven't looked at it.

Here's when you do things wrong:

(1) You look at the page and it's got classification markings on it and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(2) You look at the page and it's not got classification markings on it but as you start to read it you figure out it should be classified and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(3) You haven't looked at the page but the intern calls you back and tells you what she's done, and you don't immediately go to a security officer, turn in the data, and explain what happened.

(4) You haven't looked at it but you retransmit it by some open means, or even on a properly classified system but to a person without the right clearances. (This one sucks, but you should read everything you're going to send in that type of environment because if you send it you bought it).

I think you see a pattern here. If you're the recipient you're OK until you should have known. At that point you're still OK if you report appropriately. If you don't report, you're in trouble. If you destroy evidence you're in a metric ton sh-tload of trouble.
Click to expand...
This all makes sense. I understand she deals with tons of email so I assume thats why she wanted her own server? But knowing it could get touchy with top secret stuff why take that chance? No sticky anyway, she is a beautiful person
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

joecct said:
Even if the D's capture both houses and Bernie wins it all, how much of Bernie's proposals will be legislatively enacted?
Click to expand...

Not many...he wont be in office long enough to enact them. He will most likely take steps towards his ultimate goals but I doubt Universal Health Care will be enacted before the end of his 2nd term (if he gets one) amongst other proposals. I could see Wall Street reform happen and MAYBE student loan debt relief (best way to keep the economy growing) but the real progressive stuff will get bogged down just like it did with Obama. He will be forced to compromise...

I dont dare speak for Kep or any other Bernie supporter because we all have different reasons but for me, the reason I support him is because he brings about a shift in the conversation. The Progressive Wing has spent too much time bowing to the centrists and allowing themselves to be demonized by the Right Wing and it is time to fight back. The Obama of the last year or so was who I voted for (this is the Primary Obama...the one who made Hillary look incompetent) but even he isnt shifting the conversation. (I honestly think Biden coming out for Gay Marriage before Obama and changing the conversation changed The Obama White House for the good) We dont need more politicians that government based on exit polls and Q ratings, we need politicians (especially on the Left) who will stand up for what they believe in. The GOP has been doing this for decades and it is time the Dems did it too.

I dont really hate Hillary, but I dont think she is the right candidate and I dont think she honestly cares about anything besides stroking her ego. I think she sometimes gets a bad rap for being a centrist but that is because her personality is just so grating and she seems so insincere. Normally I would have no issue with a centrist candidate as I think the center is where we should be when the dust settles but the problem is the other side isnt anywhere near the center so she is already negotiating from behind. The only way she can fight that is to either go far left (she wont) or to stand firm in the center and hope to bring people along. We saw how well that went when Obama tried that. Whats worse is, he got ripped to shreds for not compromising because he refused to give ground even though his positions werent even liberal or anti-GOP. (I bet Reagan wouldnt have hated them)

Do I like higher taxes...nope. Trust me I just entered a higher tax bracket (note: not a high tax bracket ;) ) and the pinch is real. I would prefer to pay less but that isnt going to happen because too many politicians spent money like they were drunk and browsing Amazon. The bills need to be paid but that doesnt take away from what I think we still need. If given the option, I would take a tax hike to fund some form of UHC and 2 years of post secondary education. (whether that be University, trade school, community college...whatever) People like to talk about liberal states and their taxes and as a resident of Minnesota I understand that...but you know what the taxes we pay fund a very nice standard of living here. I would rather be taxed more for a better quality of life for everyone, than get a tax cut and see how cruddy things can truly get.

YMMV
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
Actually, in that case, much will pass. Bernie's positions are where you want a negotiation to start. Obama taught us that it is foolish to approach a rabid opponent with a compromise offer. You match them extreme for extreme, and then you whittle down to the middle.

Here's a hint: I'm not really a socialist. I just know that we have gone so far to the far right that we need a socialist opening bid to drag us back to the center. Buckley and Goldwater and Reagan understood this, when they reversed two generations of leftward drift with a muscular, self-confident far right agenda. We must do the same.
Click to expand...

This...so much this! (not a Socialist either)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top