Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Which is funny because people who sit on the other side of the aisle from you would say that Warren, Franken, Clinton and Klobuchar just like to sit around to whine and complain while their guys are actually out doing something. It's all a matter of perspective and what you think "doing something" means.

While that is true most of the time...the people Scooby named havent accomplished dick except witchhunts and "saying no". Warren has done way more than that, Clinton did more than that as flipping first lady and Franken destroys them too. Add in that Ryan is a less than effective Speaker (I am being kind)who replaced arguably the worst Speaker on my lifetime and you have your modern GOP.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

BTW if you want to hurt your brain...watch Lou Dobbs defending Drumpf and the rigged election

I have, and just sitting on the couch I sympathetically pulled a hamstring watching him stretch that hard and far.

 

[unofan]

While it's true that the mean Republican is further right, Ryan's not all wrong either. The mean Dems are also further left than they've been since 1896. I get that from Rachael Maddow's POV it's all on the R's for moving right, but for anyone on the right, they have a very similarly correct argument with the D's.
Both Parties in the House have moved further away from each other ideologically and they have been digging in on both sides. That is not an environment for compromise and with the loss of the moderate southern Dems, there's really no one left to bridge the gap.

If they both started at 5, the dems have moved to 6 while the GOP has gone to -1. To pretend that both sides have become equally extreme is absurd.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

i have, and just sitting on the couch i sympathetically pulled a hamstring watching him stretch that hard and far.

lol!

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

We have two candidates that'll be in their 70s during their first term. Again I ask, where are the "Reagan was too old" voices?

I see two septuagenarians who have been living a hard, fast life for the last two (or more?) years on the campaign trail.

Honestly, I expect a Veep to finish out the 2016 winner's first term for that reason and that reason alone.


(I don't trust Hillary's health; I don't believe Trump's health.)

 

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

We have two candidates that'll be in their 70s during their first term. Again I ask, where are the "Reagan was too old" voices?

I see two septuagenarians who have been living a hard, fast life for the last two (or more?) years on the campaign trail.

Honestly, I expect a Veep to finish out the 2016 winner's first term for that reason and that reason alone.


(I don't trust Hillary's health; I don't believe Trump's health.)

oh for ****s sake

Look at our recent past presidents. They live significantly longer than the U.S. average. They get the best healthcare in the world. I'm not too worried about a president turning 70 in their first term (while I probably would prefer someone younger than Hillary, I was ready to vote for Bernie...)

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

We have two candidates that'll be in their 70s during their first term. Again I ask, where are the "Reagan was too old" voices?

I see two septuagenarians who have been living a hard, fast life for the last two (or more?) years on the campaign trail.

Honestly, I expect a Veep to finish out the 2016 winner's first term for that reason and that reason alone.


(I don't trust Hillary's health; I don't believe Trump's health.)

I'm not worried. Hillary is in fine shape. From what my grandmother told me you don't really start going downhill (if you avoid all the major stuff that can happen) until 80. Look at McCain for cripes sake.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

I'm not worried. Hillary is in fine shape. From what my grandmother told me you don't really start going downhill (if you avoid all the major stuff that can happen) until 80. Look at McCain for cripes sake.

There's no way to truly control for all the major stuff. You have the ability to place yourself within the guidelines for the best odds, but you're still in at higher risk for these age-related illnesses.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

(I don't trust Hillary's health; I don't believe Trump's health.)

How can you not trust Trump's doctor? Clearly a fat man who's approaching 70 is in better health than a fit man who was in his mid-40s when taking office.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

There's no way to truly control for all the major stuff. You have the ability to place yourself within the guidelines for the best odds, but you're still in at higher risk for these age-related illnesses.

Well, nothing they can do about that. They have the best doctors and everything will be caught quickly if it happens.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

We have two candidates that'll be in their 70s during their first term. Again I ask, where are the "Reagan was too old" voices?

I see two septuagenarians who have been living a hard, fast life for the last two (or more?) years on the campaign trail.

Honestly, I expect a Veep to finish out the 2016 winner's first term for that reason and that reason alone.


(I don't trust Hillary's health; I don't believe Trump's health.)

If McCain can survive anyone can. That guy look like he died in the 80s

 

[BassAle]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

If they both started at 5, the dems have moved to 6 while the GOP has gone to -1. To pretend that both sides have become equally extreme is absurd.

not to mention the fact that the Dems are moving towards equality and acceptance, healthcare as a right, addressing income inequality, social justice, etc.
The Republicans are moving to embrace racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, science denial, etc

I seriously hope the Republican party fractures the deplorables get cut free

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

not to mention the fact that the Dems are moving towards equality and acceptance, healthcare as a right, addressing income inequality, social justice, etc.
The Republicans are moving to embrace racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, science denial, etc

I seriously hope the Republican party fractures the deplorables get cut free

It's happened before.

There are three groups in American politics: Democrats, Republicans, and Deplorables.

On a scale of 0 (full derp conservative) to 9 (full enlightened liberal), very roughly (and conflating economic and social indices) between WW2 and today they moved:

4 --> 2 Republicans
6 --> 7 Democrats
2 --> 0 Deplorables

but the big difference is the Deplorables moved from the Democrats to the Republicans. The mean for the two parties thus changed like this:

4 --> 7 Democratic Coalition
4 --> 1 Republican Coalition

That's why it looks like the parties have moved an equal amount. The Democrats spat out the Deplorables and the Republicans sucked them in.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

not to mention the fact that the Dems are moving towards equality and acceptance, healthcare as a right, addressing income inequality, social justice, etc.
The Republicans are moving to embrace racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, science denial, etc

I seriously hope the Republican party fractures the deplorables get cut free

That was my thought. It might be true that the Dems have moved left more than Republicans have moved right. Dems have embraced things like gender equity and equal treatment for blacks, gays and other minority groups, while Republicans are exactly where they were 60 years ago. Some factions within the party have regressed, but the appeal of the 50s social order appears pretty widespread within the party.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

not to mention the fact that the Dems are moving towards equality and acceptance, healthcare as a right, addressing income inequality, social justice, etc.
The Republicans are moving to embrace racism, xenophobia, religious intolerance, science denial, etc

I seriously hope the Republican party fractures the deplorables get cut free

Historically, it took a long time for the Deplorables to get out of the Democratic party. And they went out kicking and screaming, too.

Once they are out of both parties- then where do they go? Gotta hope that the percentages keep going down.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Once they are out of both parties- then where do they go? Gotta hope that the percentages keep going down.

Once they're out neither party has to try to justify them in the name of partisanship anymore, which means they'll be erased from the national political dialog except for whatever domestic terrorism they engage in on the way to the cemetery. That should put a serious dent in their numbers.

Take racism as one of the signature characteristics of the Deplorables. In the 1950s maybe 75% of Southern and Prairie whites were racists. Now, nobody with half a brain is, which still leaves 25%, and the GOP enables and emboldens them by winking at them for their votes. The Post-Deplorable GOP will stop doing that, and without that support the insects will crawl back under their rocks. There will still be racists but they won't be party officials or spokesmen or pundits.

The same will happen in time with misogynists and phobes. The people will still exist but their ideas will be bred out of the intellectual marketplace. People won't be casually bigotted anymore. They'll have to really want it. Show some commitment.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

Once they're out neither party has to try to justify them in the name of partisanship anymore, which means they'll be erased from the national political dialog except for whatever domestic terrorism they engage in on the way to the cemetery. That should put a serious dent in their numbers.

Take racism as one of the signature characteristics of the Deplorables. In the 1950s maybe 75% of Southern and Prairie whites were racists. Now, nobody with half a brain is, which still leaves 25%, and the GOP enables and emboldens them by winking at them for their votes. The Post-Deplorable GOP will stop doing that, and without that support the insects will crawl back under their rocks. There will still be racists but they won't be party officials or spokesmen or pundits.

The same will happen in time with misogynists and phobes. The people will still exist but their ideas will be bred out of the intellectual marketplace. People won't be casually bigotted anymore. They'll have to really want it. Show some commitment.

I really appreciate your optimism.

But to honestly do that, they need to separate themselves from many religious groups that they love to have. They are the massive ones directly driving the phobes, and I suspect hanging out being misogynists behind the scenes. Those groups drive a massive social engineering wedge into solid conservative points- which drown them out so much that you can't even believe them. Having Trump as the leader- who is clearly supporting some rather democratic issues- taking in labor groups and protecting trade, he's ALL social issues to be followed. Heck, many R's I know think trump is a massive RINO. So if he's leading the charge, it's all social issues.

And we know how religious groups get behind those. All in the name of "Family Values"....

Thing is- given the size of that electorate, there's no way they can let it go.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

When the GOP's ONLY economic plan doesn't work, hide the EVIDENCE.

Drucker is no longer with us; if he were, he might want to have a few words with Republican Governor Sam Brownback of Kansas. Brownback, despite promising to measure the results of a “real life experiment” in cutting taxes, has decided to cancel a quarterly report on the status of the state’s economy.

Although Brownback’s spokeswoman said “a lot of people were confused by the report,” no one has been fooled. The problem was that the reports didn’t match the governor’s predictions for the state’s soon-to-be-booming economy. Local news media, including the Topeka Capital-Journal and the Kansas City Star, flagged the abandonment of the reports as evidence not only of policy failure, but as an attempt to hide that fact from the public.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-24/kansas-ends-bad-economic-news-by-not-reporting-it

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

That was my thought. It might be true that the Dems have moved left more than Republicans have moved right. Dems have embraced things like gender equity and equal treatment for blacks, gays and other minority groups, while Republicans are exactly where they were 60 years ago. Some factions within the party have regressed, but the appeal of the 50s social order appears pretty widespread within the party.

As I mentioned before, Southern Dem shift left can be explained almost entirely by the replacement of southern white conservative democrats and by powerless blacks who didn't vote in the 60s/early 70s...to empowered blacks and many Hispanics today. Northern dems are the same as they were in the 60s.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXII: Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Politicians!

But to honestly do that, they need to separate themselves from many religious groups that they love to have.

The religions follow the people. This is one of the great ironies of people who think of themselves as "fundamentalist." The details of whichever particular fad they follow are very recent -- typically less than a hundred years, sometimes less than a generation.

Abortion is a classic example. Abortions are as old as humanity -- every medieval village since the 12th century had an apothecary with herbs known to "resume normalcy" (i.e., the period). The church's hemlines went up and down or mostly ignored it. It wasn't very effective but combined with a strategic roll down the stairs (well, the hill) it did the job for the maiden (or the wife with a husband away on a year-long trading journey). The Junior Anti-Sex League of 20th Century American blue nose loonies (Burroughs' "hate-pinched faces of churchgoing women") went hog wild on abortion to cut through the clutter and attract contribu--, er, congregations. Every patriarchy has a gnawing anxiety about losing control over their women's sexuality, particularly in a free society.

In the 1950s mainstream white churches played to the racism of their members by preaching that miscegenation and desegregation were anti-Christian. That's dead everywhere but among the true snake biters. So it will go with misogyny and homophobia. Eventually those passages will be ignored, even by fundies, the same way passages about slavery and shellfish and mixed fabrics are now.

The people who think they have anchored themselves to a rock in the Bible have no idea that the Bible's meaning changes all the time, even (perhaps especially) among those who claim to be so neurotically fixated on every word's literal meaning.