Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

All of y'all whining about lack of a third option should have shown up the party earlier. Complaining about the lack of a moderate Republican or socialist on the ballot is just silly since both of those types ran and already lost to Trump/Clinton respectively.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Here we go - to save everyone time, courtesy of author Michael Bunker.

"I'm sorry, but I no longer can understand why anyone would vote for ______________. Especially after ____________. Seriously ____________'s _____________ is a thousand times worse than _____________________. Also ____________________ engages in/defends sexual predation which is worse than _______________'s engaging in/defending sexual predation. Seriously, how anyone in their right mind can defend ________________ much less vote for him/her is beyond me. I'm sorry, not sorry, but it had to be said, and if you don't like it unfriend me.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

It is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to.

Holdontoyourbutts.jpg

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Of course one of the big reasons for any uncertainty is that, now that the Republicans actually DID nominate someone who can and should be compared to Hitler, nobody takes the warnings seriously any more. People treat it like it's a big reality TV game show or something. Donald Trump in contention for the U.S. presidency shouldn't even be the punchline to a bad joke.

You can say what you want about Donald Trump, and heaven knows more has been said about him than I ever wanted to hear, but comparing Donald Trump to Adolph Hitler is silly.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

and you don't have a Perot to pull a third party bid to get your Clinton elected.

Myth.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Myth.

Good to know. That's comforting in a way.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Clearly I'm not: I didn't instigate an ad hominem attack against someone with a differing POV.

Plus I'm most likely better looking than you.

Myth.

For 5 minutes Scooby was making sense. But, he always reverts back to total idiocy.

3rd party whiners, give it a rest. We won't have a viable 3rd party because its easier to just take over one of the 2 major parties. Trump represents the modern Republican party. Better than the Bushes, Kasich, and everybody else you want to throw out there. He IS the GOP, and the old country clubbers can't be more than 20% of the base now. I can see Trump going from the 45-47% Republicans have been getting in Presidential elections to the high 30's now. However, that means most Republicans are sticking with him. That's the party, so get used to it.

For Dems , while you may in the future get a more progressive nominee Sanders and Clinton voted together like 90% of the time so really she's pretty much encompassing the base.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

comparing Donald Trump to Adolph Hitler is silly.

Not if the comparison is Hitler '32. We aren't precogs so we have to wipe away everything Hitler did post-1932 to make him into HITLER!!111! Do so and Trump fits neatly into the Hitler box: hyper-militarist running on demonizing The Other, making Germany, er, America Great Again, cult of personality, incitement of violence from his supporters, out of control narcissism, isolated in a self-deluded bubble with only yes men around him... it's a fair cop.

But if you still cling to the notion that in 1932 everything Hitler became was present in his words and there is no analogy to Trump, fine, I'll downgrade to Mussolini.

That's quite bad enough.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Unless that changes, 3+ strong parties effectively nullifies popular election of the president, since the House will decide every election.

But, after all the words, the Constitution was written for that possibility.

If the "USIP/Tea Party" were to happen, I see the GreProg (Greens and Progressive) coming in as the fourth before 2040.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

But, after all the words, the Constitution was written for that possibility.

Before political parties. That changed everything. Representative democracy dominated by political parties is about as far from what the Founders intended as you can get. It's as if the Founders' Constitutional vision went into effect in 1789 and by 1800 it has been obliterated. 11 years -- less time than Arctic Monkeys have been a thing.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Plus I'm most likely better looking than you.

But I'm still ahead: brains before "beauty".

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Before political parties. That changed everything. Representative democracy dominated by political parties is about as far from what the Founders intended as you can get.

Like when I quoted the original "Gee-Dub" earlier,

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Like when I quoted the original "Gee-Dub" earlier

Teach them how to say goodbye.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

You can say what you want about Donald Trump, and heaven knows more has been said about him than I ever wanted to hear, but comparing Donald Trump to Adolph Hitler is silly.

Possibly it's my personal dislike which is overriding a safer reality, but I think given the opportunity he could be even worse than Adolph. He carries a very dangerous combination of the "love of money", hatred of out-groups, and narcissistic personality disorder. Luckily in the global information age the opportunity won't arise to follow his every whim even if he were elected.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

You know, if political parties were the last thing the Founders wanted, why did those very same Founders give us political parties!

George Washington remains the only President elected unanimously and unopposed for a reason. Upon his giving up the Presidency voluntarily, Founder Adams, Founder Jefferson, and Founder Madison immediately split into their own factions and ran against each other. Lets not mythologize people. Frankly I'd rather have a two party system than a parliamentary one or a one party system.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

It's pronounced 'Gina.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Not if the comparison is Hitler '32. We aren't precogs so we have to wipe away everything Hitler did post-1932 to make him into HITLER!!111! Do so and Trump fits neatly into the Hitler box: hyper-militarist running on demonizing The Other, making Germany, er, America Great Again, cult of personality, incitement of violence from his supporters, out of control narcissism, isolated in a self-deluded bubble with only yes men around him... it's a fair cop.

But if you still cling to the notion that in 1932 everything Hitler became was present in his words and there is no analogy to Trump, fine, I'll downgrade to Mussolini.

That's quite bad enough.

That's the thing. It seems impossible until it happens. Hitler obviously seemed all right to most people before he really got rolling. How many warning signs do you need before you reject party loyalty?
Again, one of the problems with the voters grasping the danger level is that we're used to hearing ad nauseam that Romney, Bush, Reagan, et al are "worse than Hitler" so the understandable reaction is that Trump is just another Republican.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

You know, if political parties were the last thing the Founders wanted, why did those very same Founders give us political parties!

The Founders' Constitutional vision not only does not include parties, but the great apologia for the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, repeatedly and specifically warns against them as a cancer.

Parties came later, initially as a result of the rift between Hamiltonian urban republicanism (the bankers) and Jeffersonian bucolic democracy (the planters). From the POV of the original American Experiment, they aren't a feature, they're a bug.

Now I think running everything through a 230-year old filter to decide whether it is appropriate today is self-serving Scalian nonsense. And I think parties do as much good as harm, particularly allowing the voiceless to unite and have a voice.

But don't sell an untruth: parties are as much a redirection from the Constitution as the Constitution was from the Articles. We went through three radically different visions of our government under the Founders. Don't conflate them.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

That's the thing. It seems impossible until it happens. Hitler obviously seemed all right to most people before he really got rolling. How many warning signs do you need before you reject party loyalty?
Again, one of the problems with the voters grasping the danger level is that we're used to hearing ad nauseam that Romney, Bush, Reagan, et al are "worse than Hitler" so the understandable reaction is that Trump is just another Republican.

luckily we have the 2nd and will be able to form well armed militias to take down a hitler if (s)he every comes to power!!!

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Its the difference between word and deed, Kep. Jefferson may have been pro-liberty but it didn't stop him from keeping slaves for example. My point was simple. The same Founders who wrote the Constitution also gave us political parties. Frankly I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Its who's running them that's the problem.