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Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Rowe believes its bad to have random votes into our electoral system. He's right. He's wrong that this is the US today though.

I disagree with his general assumption that today's non voting Americans are totally clueless on politics and who they should vote for. The majority of these non voters do have some preference. Even if they're influenced by others, odds that an inner city youth will be convinced to vote D and a rural senior will be convinced to vote R is not too bad...because their interests will probably be better served by those parties anyways. And our democracy is stronger and more reflective of society if everyone with even a small preference votes.

And this election, we aren't talking about a liberalish HW Bush vs. southern democrat Clinton...establishment Hillary and rebel Trump are about as polarizing as they come. It doesn't take rocket science to determine your preference...it does take going to the voting booth though.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

ScoobyDoo said:
Sure, as soon as you explain to me how you were forced. I see no force being applied in any of the scenarios you've commented on.
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That brings us back to "guilt vote." When you tell someone else they have to vote because of an effort made on their behalf by you or someone else, it's an attempt to force them to vote according to your own desire or preference rather than their own. I think it's annoying. Not that you do it, personally. But plenty of people do.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Not in jest, I do wish there was a "None of the Above" box on the ballot. I'm not sure of what the process would be if that got a majority (or even a plurality), but I do believe everyone would need to take note and start cleaning up the feces fest, the dung display, that is American politics.

Or is that the problem: We have American politics, and not American leadership and governance.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
That brings us back to "guilt vote." When you tell someone else they have to vote because of an effort made on their behalf by you or someone else, it's an attempt to force them to vote according to your own desire or preference rather than their own. I think it's annoying. Not that you do it, personally. But plenty of people do.
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No, that's not force. That's persuasion. Which is no different than what every politician does every day of their career.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

The Sicatoka said:
Or is that the problem: We have American politics, and not American leadership and governance.
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Well, I can tell you from my point of view that there is zero problem solving being done in Washington. Everything that is broken appears to have enough lobbying money to stay broken so nothing ever gets fixed. I'm starting to wonder if there is a broken infrastructure lobby in the United States.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

The Sicatoka said:
Problem solving requires leadership, sometimes selfless leadership.
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Yeah, and the only ones I see up there that fit that description are Sanders and Warren. I'm sorry I can't come up with anyone on the GOP side. I used to be able to do that.

Two people doesn't get it done.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

ScoobyDoo said:
No, that's not force. That's persuasion. Which is no different than what every politician does every day of their career.
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I'm fine with persuasion. That's what it's all about. But I don't find "because I did all this work for YOU!" to be very persuasive. It's just annoying. Nobody's going to force me to vote for someone I don't approve of, regardless of our place in history. There's a big difference between trying to persuade and trying to force someone else to do your bidding.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
I'm fine with persuasion. That's what it's all about. But I don't find "because I did all this work for YOU!" to be very persuasive. It's just annoying. Nobody's going to force me to vote for someone I don't approve of, regardless of our place in history. There's a big difference between trying to persuade and trying to force someone else to do your bidding.
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I'm sorry. I totally disagree with your definition of force. I don't think you understand what the word means.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Brenthoven said:
Also, he's not telling people to not vote. He just said he personally cannot encourage people TO vote.

He even specifically says get educated on the issues and vote. Or don't. Whatever.
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No he says get educated and vote in the next election.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

ScoobyDoo said:
I'm sorry. I totally disagree with your definition of force. I don't think you understand what the word means.
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Sorry about the confusion. Look at it this way. If there are 5 restaurants in town, and some dude on the street tells you you are only allowed to eat at one of them, do you think you have to follow his orders?
If you can grasp that scenario, take it a step further. Another dude on the street tells you that you have to eat supper now because a lot of people spent a lot of time preparing food for you in these restaurants. Are you still free to choose not to go into any restaurant or do you have to pick one?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
Not sure this is worth all the fury. The way I read is, the guy is answering (when asked) that it's not his job to make sure someone else goes out and votes. It's up to the individual to become educated enough to make the best choice for themselves. If you somehow disagree, fine. But is that the hill you want to die on? Relax.
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I dont think it is really fury so much as he is a hypocrite for ripping Hollywood types for telling people to vote while he is using his celebrity to tell people not to vote. One is not better than the other.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
I'm talking about the grandmother who says "I spent a lot of effort obtaining this for you, therefore you better use it!" whether it be an ugly tie or right to vote, it's BS. For me it's been friends that volunteer for candidates who "put in a lot of effort on this campaign, don't sit home election day and waste all our work!" If I stay home it's not to disrespect YOUR work, fool. Nobody has the right to force me to vote for someone.
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How is that any different than people who shame others for...say...taking a knee during the anthem or not taking off their hat because "soldiers died"? Both sides play the same games.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

ScoobyDoo said:
Yeah, and the only ones I see up there that fit that description are Sanders and Warren. I'm sorry I can't come up with anyone on the GOP side. I used to be able to do that.

Two people doesn't get it done.
Click to expand...

what has pocahontas passed since gaining office?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
Sorry about the confusion. Look at it this way. If there are 5 restaurants in town, and some dude on the street tells you you are only allowed to eat at one of them, do you think you have to follow his orders?
If you can grasp that scenario, take it a step further. Another dude on the street tells you that you have to eat supper now because a lot of people spent a lot of time preparing food for you in these restaurants. Are you still free to choose not to go into any restaurant or do you have to pick one?
Click to expand...

God gave you free will. So, yes. So, no, none of that is force.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Handyman said:
How is that any different than people who shame others for...say...taking a knee during the anthem or not taking off their hat because "soldiers died"? Both sides play the same games.
Click to expand...

It's NOT different. It's the same annoying "I know what's best for you" syndrome. That's what I'm saying.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

mookie1995 said:
what has pocahontas passed since gaining office?
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Nothing. She's been cock blocked ever since you got there along with Obama. But she does speak truth to power which is more than you can say about ****wads Chaffetz and Gowdy.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

geezer said:
It's NOT different. It's the same annoying "I know what's best for you" syndrome. That's what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

But that isnt force...force would be someone outwardly threatening me. (or cops saying they wont protect players for protesting)
 
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