Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was In)

[walrus]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Ok
Lets get this out of the way, we all agree Trump is the bigger piece of ****. It still stinks

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

And that is enough for me. It's disappointing that it isn't enough for all.

No. It shows she lies less than tDonald. If you shoot only one person and I shoot two, does that mean you're not a murderer anymore?

What candidate have you voted for that hasnt lied? I will hang up and listen...

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

This is exactly what I said. Loans were being extended to people who realistically shouldn't have qualified.

Now, why did that happen exactly?

Since we are apparently relying on Google, consider.

"The financial crisis was triggered by a complex interplay of policies that encouraged home ownership, providing easier access to loans for subprime borrowers, overvaluation of bundled subprime mortgages.....

I guess I don't see where this disagrees with what I said. As I wrote before, I think these policies were well-intended, but like many things just went too far and when coupled with the greed of certain wall street types, caused a massive meltdown.

Because:

1) You claim Clinton "pushed" these loans when the lending wasn't forced. The banks willingly offered them up, lied about their sustainability and viability, accepted property evaluations they knew were extremely inflated in order to justify loaning as much as possible, conspired to qualify people that actually shouldn't have qualified even under the more lax standards, and despite their own under-writing evaluation processes telling them they should NOT lend still went ahead and did it anyway.

2) You mistakenly believe the sub-prime loan market (and any/all loans by way of Freddie/Fannie, etc) was a major component of the mortgages that failed then and are still failing today. They were but a fraction.

3) You ignore the 90%+ of the remaining components that contributed to the collapse - which again didn't start with the sub-prime market.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Yeah, you missed the point made in the whole movie and book. Unreal.

I didn't miss the point. I just didn't swallow it hook, line and sinker.

SJH: the thesis of the book and the movie made from it, well supported by empirical data, is that the financial institutions perpetuated a fraud against everyone -- homeowners and downstream investors alike. The accusation against the homeowners translates to the following: "don't trust banks and brokerage firms offering financial services; they are criminals who have bought off the regulatory agencies."

In a sane world, the officials of those companies would have gone to jail for decades. Only their connections with the Bush and Obama administrations saved them from prosecution.

I understand the general thesis. It's always explained this way:

1. The subprime mortgage business was becoming more and more risky as market prices started to drop, people couldn't refinance and foreclosures increased.

2. Banks knew that subprimes were turning into toxic waste, but they were making too much money bundling these up and selling them to investors to get themselves to stop.

3. A couple of sharps figured out how they could bet against these investments because they figured they could make even more money if they went south. In some instances these investment houses were the same people as #2. Thank you Bill for getting rid of Glass-Steagall.

4. Tipping point hits and everything turns to *****.

But you still always have to go back to #1 for the start of it. The fact remains that someone turned home mortages into junk bonds, and the way that was done was loan a ton of money to some pretty credit risky individuals.

But I get it. Wall street wanted to put all the blame on the people who defaulted on their home mortgages. Lewis and the movie people wanted to put it all on wall street. My world just isn't quite as black and white as that.

I apologize for my role in derailing the thread, so this will be my last post on the subject.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

What candidate have you voted for that hasnt lied? I will hang up and listen...

He would not have voted for Lincoln or Washington, and he is forever foreclosed from voting for any candidate in the future. It is a matter of degree and context.

I completely understand why people decide not to vote out of frustration or fatigue, but there is not much logic behind saying that one candidate may be far worse than the other but they both suck so I refuse to reward anyone with my vote. Voting third party is at least a statement.

I will come clean and expose myself to (even more) derision and scorn, but I voted green in 2000, even though it was clear Nader could not win. I did it because I saw little in the alternatives and because I thought his platform included worthy positions on issues like campaign finance reform, health care reform, environmental responsibility, "war on drugs" reform, and a general feeling that Gore and Bush were, in fact, Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Tweedledum won by a whisker and went on make an historic mess of the job. It was a bad vote. I do not believe Gore would have taken us into Iraq, which has been second only to Vietnam in catastrophic foreign policy f'ups in my lifetime.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I agree with Rover's language although I disagree strongly with the notion that we are not in need right now of a transformational president. We have been under the knife of trickle down and plutocracy for 36 years and it is high time we took our government back. What is the Trump supporters' anger about at the end of the day but the destruction of democracy and the shunting of all benefits and policy preferences to the 1%?

The vast majority of Americans are not racists. Our problem now is the only major party with any incentive to protect working class and middle class voters, the Democratic party, is as much a tool of the 1% as the GOP. Change that -- repudiate the plutocracy from inside the DNC -- and about 50% of Trump supporters would vote for a liberal economic alternative.

Everybody knows the fix has been in since 1980 except a handful of Beltway apologists, most of who are Democratic aparatchiks.

Until we burn those parasites off our party we will remain merely the lesser of two evils, rather than the cure.

Maybe I'm with Rover on this one. I'm a big time progressive and love change. But I understand that progress is of moderate pace and steady. Its the only way to know that the change is actually change that works...not all change is good. This is a marathon and not a sprint and with demographics they way they are...the US is well positioned for continued progress.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

People can still claim Hillary is a liar and your sources show it's a deserved term for her.

How about we get someone who doesn't lie to the people and actually makes people WANT to vote for a candidate instead of against another.

I don't begrudge anyone that demands honesty from their candidate even if I find it naive, but don't tell me you won't vote for Hillary because she's a liar when her campaign has been shown to be infinitely more truthful. Either come clean about the true ulterior motives or keep doing research and make a more informed decision.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Republican convention may be literally full of sh-t.

As many as 11 members of the California delegation’s advance team are showing symptoms that are consistent with the norovirus, according to Peter Schade, the Erie County health commissioner, who is investigating the outbreak. They are staying at a hotel in Sandusky, Ohio, about an hour from Cleveland.

“We’ve got about 11 who have been sick over the last few days, and we’ve been out there every day and working with them to eliminate the spread [between] the resort and the delegation from California,” Schade said.

The health department is running tests to confirm whether the Republican staff members have norovirus.

Noroviruses trigger explosive bouts of vomiting and diarrhea. They clear you out and clear out of your system pretty quickly. Symptoms typically only last one to three very miserable days. Most people recover without incident, but some people may need medical care for dehydration — especially small children or older adults.

The pesky bugs are exceedingly contagious. Norovirus outbreaks rip through crowds, and are often associated with travelers on cruise ships, children in day care centers, or guests at a wedding.

Presumably they'll try prayer rather than wiping after they defecate.

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

What candidate have you voted for that hasnt lied? I will hang up and listen...

Q: How do you know a politician is lying?
A: He/She is speaking.
To answer your question, Carter. And look where that got us.

Just for clarification, I'm not an absolutist on this. As the saying goes, there are lies and dammned lies (& statistics). I got no problem with the broken campaign promises or lying about a BJ, etc. When one lies to cover up a crime or something that materially effects the country (Nixon & Watergate is the classic example), I call that a dammnable lie and draw the line. IMO, HRC did that with the email issue. I can't recall who said it on Morning Joe but to paraphrase: The Clintons skirt the rules or attempt to play by their own. HRC/WJC perceives, either correctly or incorrectly, that any questioning or investigation into their activities is an attempt by the right to undermine their authority. They are willing to do whatever is required to prevent that from occurring. We're in for another 8 years of it.
Will that be better than tDonald in charge? Probably, but I rather not find out.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

So the newest Clinton conspiracy will be called Defe-Gate?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I haven't watched the convention at all today, because of my own behavior in the last 24 hours, and because of the banter in this thread during the same time frame. I think that says something.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

"I didn't steal from Michelle, I stole from Twilight Sparkle.

<img src="http://pinkie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw5135-twi-notsureiflegit.png"></img>

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

This is exactly what I said. Loans were being extended to people who realistically shouldn't have qualified.

Now, why did that happen exactly?

Since we are apparently relying on Google, consider.

"The financial crisis was triggered by a complex interplay of policies that encouraged home ownership, providing easier access to loans for subprime borrowers, overvaluation of bundled subprime mortgages.....

I guess I don't see where this disagrees with what I said. As I wrote before, I think these policies were well-intended, but like many things just went too far and when coupled with the greed of certain wall street types, caused a massive meltdown.

You should go check your numbers- while it's true that many people were loaned money that they should not have- the numbers are not high for the ones that are covered by the policy that you are trying to directly blame. Of the GSE loans, only about 14% of them were sub-prime. And since all of those are for low income people, that was not the tipping part of the crisis.

It's really easy to blame poor people.

But they are not the massive majority of people who got loans that were based on investment potential- which were the variable rate loans that exploded the system.

BTW- last time I checked, every R also perpetuated the myth of the American Dream, too- which is home ownership. Not sure how you pin that on Bill Clinton alone.

It's so very easy to look up, but I don't expect you will. Just like the first crash in the '29, this recent crash was the cause of greed on Wall Street. Pretty simple. The rules that went into place have been eroded over time, so we went from a stable and boring real estate market to one that was a cornerstone to make a lot of money. Which is where Trump got all his money- not from actually making anything, but convincing people to give him money- either by real estate or gambling (which is pretty much the same thing).

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Guess I'm not up on my Republican convention rules. How does 10 Kasich and 9 Rubio, the results of the primary from DC and announcement from the delegation, go all 19 to Trump?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Lol. You go Michigan!

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Guess I'm not up on my Republican convention rules. How does 10 Kasich and 9 Rubio, the results of the primary from DC and announcement from the delegation, go all 19 to Trump?

If one person is nominated, all of them must go to that candidate. This is true for at least DC and I think a few other states. I'm guessing Iowa has that too since they went 100% Trump.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

LOL! Missouri and Kansas both claimed the Royals.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

I didn't miss the point. I just didn't swallow it hook, line and sinker.

Could you be more sanctimounious please?

There are only two points that matter.

1. People who took out loans for more than they could pay had bankruptcy protection.
2. What happened with the banks in that regard?

Get it now.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

Your article on Reagan is from 1991, 3 years after his Presidency and in the middle of full on Alzheimer's disease. There's no way he wrote that article and I question if he even knew what was written in his name.

Actually the article was 3 years before Reagan announced publicly he had Alzheimer's and barely more than 2 after he was president. While opinions are mixed as to when the first signs of the disease were apparent in Reagan it's highly likely that in 1991 he was more than capable of writing the statements attributed to him the op-ed piece. You also might be surprised by his comments in 1989 when he spoke that so called "assault" rifles were not sporting guns or needed for home defense. He also refers to the CA waiting law but does not take credit for it.

There's a lot truth when people comment that this current crop of Republican voters -- who bring up Reagan's legacy at least as often as the do Lincoln's -- would find Reagan far too liberal.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIV: Just Dropped in (To See What Condition My Convention Was

While opinions are mixed as to when the first signs of the disease were apparent in Reagan it's highly likely that in 1991 he was more than capable of writing the statements attributed to him the op-ed piece.

What do you base this on? From everything I've read, Reagan had severe deficits by his second midterm. In 1991 -- five years further on -- he may have been a vegetable.